Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: jedi cloak and run
rscheibler wrote:Simple solution... move cloak to Master Powers.
If the Jedi has committed that much skill to the powers profession, then odds are his defenses aren't that great.... he'll need cloak.
Cloak is by no means worthy of a Master box. It is not nearly as powerful as Force Choke, Force Breach, Avoid Incap, Stasis or Regain Consciousness. It also is about the only Powers skill worth getting for dabblers, though. Saying Force Cloak should be moved to the Master box goes along with saying a profession should have nothing to offer for dabblers and all good skills should not be in tier 4 and Master boxes, but only in the Master box. This would equal Enhancers getting roots, snares, speed buffs, Force runs and armor only at Master.
The want jedi to fight thing again eh.
No what you are really trying to say mr don't pee in the wind is, jedi should be able to grind unhindered.
Well no that is not the intention. The intention is they either grind descreately or face consequences.
The minute they are fruiting about town throwing sabres about, they better be a l33t, becuase if their not, the way it should be is they get their back broke.
You want to be a jedi and show off infront of everyone well earn it.
Patience or pay!
StylerNaku wrote:The want jedi to fight thing again eh.
No what you are really trying to say mr don't pee in the wind is, jedi should be able to grind unhindered.
Well no that is not the intention. The intention is they either grind descreately or face consequences.
The minute they are fruiting about town throwing sabres about, they better be a l33t, becuase if their not, the way it should be is they get their back broke.
You want to be a jedi and show off infront of everyone well earn it.
Patience or pay!
This is meant as a response to which post / poster?
FernGully wrote:
rscheibler wrote:
Simple solution... move cloak to Master Powers.
If the Jedi has committed that much skill to the powers profession, then odds are his defenses aren't that great.... he'll need cloak.
Uh, thats really not gonna satisfy most people who want to take cloaking away as a playstyle.
I'm a Powers Jedi (master), and I love my cloak. I use it for sneak attack. I use it for escape and evasion. I use it for scouting for PvP. I use it for just exploring PvE. I use it OFTEN, and pretty much any way I possibly can. I stay cloaked most of the time I'm in game, and only uncloak when I need to do something. It fits me and my playstyle in so many ways. I like to stay out of sight. I like to explore. I like to hold the element of surprise. I like knowing I have a pretty reliable exit option from a fight.
Moving the skill around won't change that for me. I'll still have it, and still continue to use it as such. When I'm jumped by a bounty hunter at the wrong time in the wrong place, I'll cloak and run. When I'm 1v1 facing a FoTM MDef/MLS build in PvP and losing (which will mostly be the case), I'll root/kd/fr2/cloak my way to safety. When me an a couple of my buddies are hanging out cloaked waiting for some straggling lone SF player to wonder by, we'll gank him.
In the end, thats why folks want to nerf cloak. They don't want me to be able to play the game like that. Bounty Hunter want me to fight to the death, especially if its mine, even if I see it coming and have a chance to run. If I don't do that, if I run, if I hide someplace they can't get to me (like under cloak, or in my own house), then they'e going to yell and scream as loud and as often as they can to get the rules changed so that I can't run or hide any longer. Why? Because thats how they want to play the game: their marks shouldn't try to escape from them.
The MLS/MDef Jedi crowd don't want me sneak-attacking or escaping, either. They've built their templates to be great toe-to-toe fighters, great duelists, capable of reliably killing someone like me who has chosen not to get a lot of Defender. So, naturally, skills like cloak which allow to engage in "non-dueling" sneak attacks or to disengage from fights I'm losing are "unfair" in their eyes because I'm playing in a way that they don't want to. I'm supposed to walk up to them, allow them time to get prepared, and then stay and fight to the death (which will usually be mine, since I've given up things like tanking in my template).
What's my point? Not everyone wants to play like you do. And asking for the rules/mechanics of the game to match your AND ONLY YOUR playstyle is pretty selfish, IMHO. You play your way, and I'll play mine. You have your MLS/MDef dueling template which can wipe the floor with my MPowers template, but I have the option to hide from you or sneak-attack you when you're in a bad spot. You have your droids and your ability to hunt/track/attack me, but I have the option to hide from you.
Eloquent. Succint. Correct.
Ferngully was absolutely on target with every word.
Eskie wrote:
b) BHs are not meant as Jedi population control. If that was the case, BHs would have to be able to stop the xp gain of Jedi and the means to make them lose skills. Its not a good game design to allow one class of players to completely stop game progression of another class, though. The problem is Jedi being visible, not Jedi being there. But this is a whole other topic and we can discuss it in a different thread if you want.
BH's cry like little girls when a Jedi can get away from them.
Jedi cry like little girls when they can't get away from a BH.
It's a neverending cycle. You wanna prove that you're better then the Jedi? Stop crying about them being able to escape and do something about it. Cloak isn't a game breaking ability and it's not going to be leaving anytime soon. Why? Because it's not, it CAN'T, be used to grief other players (except for the occasionaly cloak bug that comes up accidentally). You get jumped by 8 cloaked Jedi while overt? Guess what, that's not an exploit... that's called tactics you whiney pansies. You can't kill a Jedi fast enough before he tosses up cloak? Guess what, that's not an exploit... that's you sucking.
You can't beat a cloak wielder but can beat other Jedi? Guess what, we all have templates we can't kill... get used to it. If you wanna be "uber nothing will run away from me and I can kill anyone and anything in the galaxy" then go play a console game.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Eloquent. Succint. Correct.Ferngully was absolutely on target with every word.
I'll be wiring the payoff money for that endorsement directly
Oh, and for the record...those of you who are so up in arms and angry about the Starport duelists you see day in, day out, flashing the sabers...don't blame me, or my cloaking kind, for that. Thats not our style. Someone who plays like I do does their very best to stay UNKNOWN. I loved it when cloak came along in the CU and helped me play this way even more. I'm a prepub9 jedi who's been playing since launch, and most of the other Jedi on my server have never even heard of me (cept maybe from forums).
Eskie wrote:
rscheibler wrote:
Simple solution... move cloak to Master Powers.
If the Jedi has committed that much skill to the powers profession, then odds are his defenses aren't that great.... he'll need cloak.
Cloak is by no means worthy of a Master box. It is not nearly as powerful as Force Choke, Force Breach, Avoid Incap, Stasis or Regain Consciousness. It also is about the only Powers skill worth getting for dabblers, though. Saying Force Cloak should be moved to the Master box goes along with saying a profession should have nothing to offer for dabblers and all good skills should not be in tier 4 and Master boxes, but only in the Master box. This would equal Enhancers getting roots, snares, speed buffs, Force runs and armor only at Master.
Message Edited by Mastivo on 07-21-2005 10:58 AM
Yeah , the cloak is now a get out of a fight free skill.
I'm thinking about taking up Master Coward Jedi: Root, Force Run III, Cloak.
AllHandlestaken wrote:Yeah , the cloak is now a get out of a fight free skill.
I'm thinking about taking up Master Coward Jedi: Root, Force Run III, Cloak.
Yep. "Coward", if you wanna call it that, is a valid lifestyle choice.
Just like scumbag-killer-for-hire.
TheMadCoder wrote:
Eskie wrote:
b) BHs are not meant as Jedi population control. If that was the case, BHs would have to be able to stop the xp gain of Jedi and the means to make them lose skills. Its not a good game design to allow one class of players to completely stop game progression of another class, though. The problem is Jedi being visible, not Jedi being there. But this is a whole other topic and we can discuss it in a different thread if you want.
What game are you playing? BHs ARE meant to be Jedi population control. That was the whole point of permadeath (which was removed) and the whole point of XP loss. BHs ARE jedi population control.
Uhm - and why exactly was permadeath removed then? Probably somebody figured out that not letting somebody advance at all in a game is seriously taking the fun out of the game for said person? And do you really think one player class should be deciding who can advance in another profession and who cannot? "Population control" is a term way too often abused to justify gank squads, low-level Padawan griefing and some other nasty stuff BHs were able to do pre-pub 20.
The Bounty Hunter profession is meant for players who enjoy stalking other players and attack them when they least expect it. The perk of the BH profession is the ability to attack other players even if they did not flag themselves as available for PvP by going SF.
It is about the hunt, not about the xp loss for the mark. If somebody is bounty hunting just because he wants his mark to lose xp, he has the wrong profession and probably would be better off playing a 1st person shooter than a MMORPG.
The xp loss only is there because SOE wants to punish people showing off Jedi stuff in public. The problem currently is that this punishment is not severe enough to keep fully templated Jedi from showing off since some are short-sighted and think they will never want to change their template. But as I said, this is another topic.