Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The state of Jedi vs. BH
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
frankenstienmonster wrote:
This thread has been taken over by people that have no understanding of either profession...
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
EVERYONE THAT USES ARMOR OR WEAPONS GETS DECAY. ITS NOT A RISK ITS PART OF THE COMBAT SYSTEM. BH's ARE NOT SPECIAL IN THIS REGARD.
And so is the Jedi losing Xp.
I HAVE TO LOOT ALL OF MY OWN PEARLS AND CRYSTALS. IF I COULD BUY A TRIPLE CAPPED SABER I WOULD IN A HEARTBEAT. AGAIN YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW THE JEDI PROFESSION WORKS.
And sometimes we have to loot the components for the slices and for the WS. And we have to find a WS that is able to make them. The pearls/crystals you can get from creatures. Granted the Pearls are only comming from one place but you can kill a juvenile and it gives pearls.
Oh, ok, I didn't realize that when I hit you for 1000 points in pvp that your armor doesn't migate and reduceit. Sorry. And I thought there was an energy resist on lightsabers.
/sarcasm off
Plus you have the right to wear your armor with your profession, you don't pay for it. You'd be a master BH whether it was there or not. If a jedi wants armor he has to go up the defender trees. You have no idea what you are talking about!
Hmmm...lets see. YOu are a MDEF so im going out on a limb and guess you are also MLS as well. You can hit once a sec probably at max maybe twice. i have 3100 hitpoints. 1K per hit and im out in 4 sec max. So your saying that working up the tree of BH is not paying for it. Yes most all profession can wear armor but they are Paying for that right just as you did. We pay in our SP just like you paid for yours. So yours cost more XP....it is still paying for it.
And as for not understanding the Jedi..your right...that would be like trying to understand a woman. It will never happen.
And you again are right that this thread has been taken over by people who do not understand either profession. You are one of those people as well.
Nuff said. have a nice day.
I'm only reacting to you guys. Read my original post. Its all there, its accurate and more people agree with that than you think.
Stay off the terms. You mean don't play the game. There are no high level quests that do not require npc contact.
I had no problem with the game (minus the hate and repetitive bh visits before publish 24) until it became snare wars and Return of the SL.
I just want a good fight, you know the one where I can actually attack and also not be 1-3 shoted from range.
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
Of course, the alt arguement. Sorry that won't work either. I get an alt so you don't have to complain about seeing my jedi 100% of the time. You can't have it both ways. All the people saying jedi are too numerous surely do not expect me to quit.
that's not the reason why you get an alt. the reason why you get an alt is because you're still a paying customer who deserves to have the same right to gameplay without unconsensual PvP and harrassment. your alt fulfills that obligation because as a jedi you give up those rights.
Message Edited by balock_the_zabrak on 10-20-2005 08:44 PM
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
I'm only reacting to you guys. Read my original post. Its all there, its accurate and more people agree with that than you think.
Stay off the terms. You mean don't play the game. There are no high level quests that do not require npc contact.
I had no problem with the game (minus the hate and repetitive bh visits before publish 24) until it became snare wars and Return of the SL.
I just want a good fight, you know the one where I can actually attack and also not be 1-3 shoted from range.
Yes,Squad Leader made a return. Now ask yourself where he has been all this time. He's been sitting idely by while a certain profession got two revamps and almost every patch devoted to it.The last four or five patches finally started to address real profession problems beside the jedi. Bounty Hunters finally got their terminals working correctly,Squad Leaders and Commandos finally got some specials, and from what I read smuggler might be the next profession that gets worked on.It's nice to know that when I use my specials they will finally stick instead of losing a fight because my root,snare or whatever else didn't work properly.
This deserves a Stikie!! Here and in the Jedi's boards..
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
Foreword:
As of today jedi is completely underpowered (and sadly unplayable)compared to before publish 24. As a result I am not longer playing my jedi and I know many others that are not either. Cheer if you will but I was on the front page of the terms and never ran from a fight. Truthfully its your loss.
Jedi: Risk vs. Reward
I just want to know why everyone feels there should be some kind of penalty for being a jedi.
This is a concept that was once not an issue as jedi was both a reward and had the power and prestige to warrant this.
When I first became a jedi, we were powerful and because of that power the risk/reward was balanced.
Now, and especially with the last patch, a jedi is marginally better than a normal toon (and I would venture to say even or *gasp!* less).
If you want to punish me for having my lightsaber then maybe you should read all the post about jedi getting owned maybe the ones that respond to nerf calls are...
A few things:
1. My jedi had rarely lost a fight since I became a master defender. Not because MDEF is overpowered but I knew what I was doing, I practiced all the time, and I knew BH templates inside and out. There are someBH that are VERY tough but I couldusually find a wayto get it done.
That changed yesterday when I was killed by a bh who did not wear armor (arrogant?!)and perfected the use of root/snare to make sure I never even hit him once. Kiting me the whole fight until I gave up. Can we call this balance? At least pre-publish 24 I might have caught up to him with FR...
2. Nearly all high level MOBs are now armor break immune. Do you have any idea how big of a blow that is to a melee/jedi character? That removes 60% of our PVE damage. Try that with your rifle, carbine, or pistol. I'm sure you'd agree with me that its unfair and there is no advantage to being a jedi in pve anymore. Loss of lightsaber damage reduced jedi this makes it even worse.
3. AI no longer functions as intended. Need I say more? You can't tank a mob with the master level tanking skill... Good job there...
4. Healing. You CM/Docs out there know what I'm talking about. Not every jedi has the 1500 heals that we were 'balanced' against.
5. Ganking. Given the current rules for snare NEVER should a jedi have to face two ranged professions at once. Because snare can be applied without an anger like buff the jedi would never have a chance. One bh on one side the other on the other side and a dead snared jedi in the center.
Ifyou search this board you will see countless posts about pwning jedi and how easy we are now. Given my recent experiences I cannot disagree.
Jedi vs. BH: The problem with the system
The jedi vs. BH system has seriously fractured this community. The hatred is far too great, and it spills into new character that areworking to become jedi. Why they hatejedi isridiculous. Nearly everyone in the game is working toward one orhas one.Blind hatred tears the community apart.
Possible solutions:
1. Remove all penalties for BH deaths. You will scream about this, but I guarantee you would have more and better fights if people didn't fear and run. I know that I would have fought you everytime when I was just starting for experience alone. BH's become content for jedi too. See above rebuttal for the jedi needs to be hard comment. IT NO LONGER APPLIES IN THIS GAME.
2. Remove jedi from player bounties. Problem solved. Drastic but completely understandable should it happen. Ganking, grieving, and nerfing have made this the easy solution, and remember the dev would rather remove code than add it... If something is considered overpowered it gets nerfed or removed. Revamps take too many dev resources and given their current direction of development in the game I doubt they have future plans for anything.
3. Give jedi a reward/reason to fight you. XP gain, perks, anything that might be worth the risk of fighting you. Remember no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise wedo not have to fight you. And unless you snare/root us we can't be forced to. That is not limited to negative BH penalties. We know you have nothing to lose. And weknow you will never accept losing something (ironic huh?). But at the very least the jedi should be rewarded for DBing you.
If you remove penalties for jedi the 'farming' issue that was in place with the names on the terminal is eliminated. THAT is why jedi lost xp.
When the system was first in place killing a jedi was the largest payout possible to a player, andto make sure that this was not abused the jedi xp loss was in place (this occurred in several different methods). Its an outdated system that breeds hate on both sides and it is time that it is revamped.
Don't kid yourselves, if you were jedi population control you'd be killing FS grinders trying to stop them from becoming jedi. Pre village the hologrind was slowing people, but that would have only been a temporary solution, as people continue to play they work toward their goal regardless of the speed they reach it.
Conclusion: This game needs to remove the tension between the most played (BH) profession and the most sought after (Jedi) profession. As of right now the game is not balanced. Ranged can kill melee with ease. Until this changes the game is not worth playing. Finally something will need to be done.
Make the experience better for both players. Our community deserves it.
Flaming or calling me a fool will not change the truth of the situation. Something has to change for the good of the game.
Message Edited by Yoiaholic1 on 10-20-2005 05:53 PM
Sorry no clicky but this was posted by someone on my server forum describingjedi playerswho postconstant complaints about PUB 24. I'm sure its old but i sure get a chuckleeverytimei watch it.
http://easymac.org/images/image.php?id=63
Dzhokar wrote:
ktanner3 wrote:
Seriously, why are you in this forum venting ? Not like jedi players ever thought they needed one before trolling ours or anybody else's.
Want to know why no other profession cares about your so-called nerf? Because many of your brethren have done nothing the last year except troll Bounty Hunter,Combat Medic, and Smuggler forums cryning for our skills to be nerfed just because you lost a fight. You guys did it so consistently day after day that this turned from a Jedi VS Bh warinto Jedi vs everyone. You've been told time after time , STAY OFF THE TERMINALS.It's real easy and not that hard to do,especially now. You even get a second character slot to do with as you wish.Sorry your precious jedi skills weren't addressedthis patch so thatsquad leader and commando for once in a lifetime could get their professions fixed.
When a nerf happens to one of us,you guys tell us to suck it up and learn better skills, or be a true hunter. So know we say the same to you. Suck it up, learn to adapt,and become a true jedi by STAYING OFF THE TERMINALS.
Sorry son, but trolls infest all of the forums. Including the jedi forums. Every one is whining to get the other person nerfed. Some of that is just ignorance on how their own and other professions work, some of it is just that people like to complain... some is even justified...
As far as staying off the terminals..... what fun is that? You try playing the game without killing NPCs or participating in PvP. I personally don't care if I'm uber or not... just give me a fair chance against the root and snare tactics. A skilled kiter will almost never get hit by their mark, unless the jedi switches to an ineffective ranged weapon. And btw, I also have a bh/carbineer/cm and a tkm/mpike/doc. Right now I'm enjoying playing the bh over the other two. Why? Because he's the most powerful. I've never really understood the polarization of different professions against one another.
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
swiftstriker wrote:
Its just there are too many jedi. If there was no penalty whoop dee do.SWG would be a jedi battle field (except for those few bhs that refuse to be jedis).
Not a very constructive answer. No one fears your Xp loss. The pvper's in theed will never care. It just breeds hate and contempt. As long as players are allowed to do what they wish with their characters jedi will increase. Please accept that, everyone has the right to be one.
It may not be constructive...and it may not be an effective deterrent...but there needs to be a deterrent. If I wanted to play a game where everyone was a Jedi I'd go play KOTR. The devs have been much to lenient allready with allowing the Jedi population as high as it is. Unfortunately that is the problem now and there's nothing really that can be done about it. I don't accept that everyone has a right to be a Jedi since the premis behind the game is that Jedi was supposed to be rare. I have nothing against Jedi...I have friends who are Jedi and I enjoy being able to group/play with them since their power (pre 24) made it much easier for me to do whatever I wanted. A better deterrent needs to be in place...one that deters people from actually becoming a Jedi rather then once they are a Jedi.
InspGadgt wrote:
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
swiftstriker wrote:
Its just there are too many jedi. If there was no penalty whoop dee do.SWG would be a jedi battle field (except for those few bhs that refuse to be jedis).
Not a very constructive answer. No one fears your Xp loss. The pvper's in theed will never care. It just breeds hate and contempt. As long as players are allowed to do what they wish with their characters jedi will increase. Please accept that, everyone has the right to be one.
It may not be constructive...and it may not be an effective deterrent...but there needs to be a deterrent. If I wanted to play a game where everyone was a Jedi I'd go play KOTR. The devs have been much to lenient allready with allowing the Jedi population as high as it is. Unfortunately that is the problem now and there's nothing really that can be done about it. I don't accept that everyone has a right to be a Jedi since the premis behind the game is that Jedi was supposed to be rare. I have nothing against Jedi...I have friends who are Jedi and I enjoy being able to group/play with them since their power (pre 24) made it much easier for me to do whatever I wanted. A better deterrent needs to be in place...one that deters people from actually becoming a Jedi rather then once they are a Jedi.
Jedi sell star wars. Thats what people remember about the movies the most. On Scylla our server has been replenished by the new characters that have only one ambition: to become jedi. Some will, most will not reach this goal. But it would doom the future of the game to say thats it. No more jedi. People would quit. They would have every right to do so. I pay the same money that they do, and the money I spent last month on the game doesn't matter to SOE this month, its been spent. Its all about current subscriptions. Jedi sell star wars.
I'm sorry you don't like us in the timeline, but the time line has been broken since day one. Make rebels have to hide and not be overt in the open and you might have a point. The truth is this game is not star wars anymore. It has a star wars 'feel' but as dev teams have been changed so to has the original concept.
Immersion. That was removed with the CU. Its annoying to have all the WoWish cartoon icons, and animations. The timeline was broken much earlier. I'm still going because I'm hooked but even I have my limits. Right now this game is not fun. I hope that changes, and not just for jedi.
Message Edited by Yoiaholic1 on 10-20-2005 09:27 PM
ktanner3 wrote:
I've never once trolled the jedi forums asking for their specials to be nerfed.
I have to ask, did you not know that when you chose the path of jedi that there was certain risks involved ? Your playing a jedi who isn't even supposed to be in the time period that he's in, so of course he's going to be hunted. And since being the most powerful is what you crave, maybe this isn't the game for you. This is a role playing game, not a first person shooter. One class that dominates all others destroys any balance in a role-playing game online. Therewas too many players that leftthis game because the Galactic civil war got killed and made unrealistic when jedi started running around overt pawning non-jedi. So then it got to the point that unless you were jedi, don't even bother going special forces.You call it nerf, some of us call it balance. Now maybe jedi players will think twice before showing off their lightsabers in front of starports.I also find it interesting that you play as a bounty hunter also. You wouldn't happen to be hunting jedi with it would you? Because then that would make you a hypocrite.
I have a bh too, for loot. I do not hunt players. Its just not a good system in my opinion. I've been on the other side I should know. Being hunted really sucks when you are just starting. And people do it to grieve, or because they need to feel powerful.
Other than loot there is one other great reason to have MBH with a weapon profession. There is really no other profession that compliments the ranged ones.
Sure, you can be a carbiner/pistoleer or some combo of pistol/carbiner/rifleman but you lose speed and accuracy in the profession weapon you choose.
If you have the general mods from Bh you are a much more effective character. That is whyBH is so popular. It compliments a template while adding a side game as well.