Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The state of Jedi vs. BH
Message Edited by LordMarr on 10-20-2005 07:05 PM
Plus the electrolyte drain food takes very basic resources aparently, just check for a chef online.
JMShunter wrote:if you dont like being hunted A. dont go jedi... B dont act like a jedi around NPCS
This is the typical shortsighted response that people give me. I ask you, what else am I to do with my fully templated Jedi? Usually the next response is "Thats why you get a free alt". Then my response is "What if my alt is a crafter?". Then the next reponse is "Then regrind him", then my reply is "why, I have a fully templated Jedi".
Jedi beeing hunted is something we live with, some enjoy it, a fair fight is all that we ask for.
Plus, what you said didn't really have anything to do with the thread.
Its a double edge sword. A jedi never dies.
When a jedi quits their character is sold.
If we ban all ebay jedi there will be at LEAST 60% less jedi.
Only the diehards will remain. Most of the leet kids get burned out and move on to other MMORPG's.
*Its always funny to see the people that support the ebay jedi, it just means that they probably have one. I worked for mine, you are breaking your TOS agreement. 
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
Foreword:
As of today jedi is completely underpowered (and sadly unplayable)compared to before publish 24. As a result I am not longer playing my jedi and I know many others that are not either. Cheer if you will but I was on the front page of the terms and never ran from a fight. Truthfully its your loss.
Jedi: Risk vs. Reward
I just want to know why everyone feels there should be some kind of penalty for being a jedi.
This is a concept that was once not an issue as jedi was both a reward and had the power and prestige to warrant this.
When I first became a jedi, we were powerful and because of that power the risk/reward was balanced.
Now, and especially with the last patch, a jedi is marginally better than a normal toon (and I would venture to say even or *gasp!* less).
If you want to punish me for having my lightsaber then maybe you should read all the post about jedi getting owned maybe the ones that respond to nerf calls are...
A few things:
1. My jedi had rarely lost a fight since I became a master defender. Not because MDEF is overpowered but I knew what I was doing, I practiced all the time, and I knew BH templates inside and out. There are someBH that are VERY tough but I couldusually find a wayto get it done.
That changed yesterday when I was killed by a bh who did not wear armor (arrogant?!)and perfected the use of root/snare to make sure I never even hit him once. Kiting me the whole fight until I gave up. Can we call this balance? At least pre-publish 24 I might have caught up to him with FR...
I will answer these to the best of my ability, but first i wish to say I thank you for a receptive post. Have not seen one but there are a few things I wish to address. The Jedi on the BH terminals were pretty much full temp. There were hardly any paddies because the paddies knew how to hide..or should i say cared to hide. Waving a glowstick around outside the Theed starport was a little annoying and arrogant of them. You stated that you rarely lost as a MDEF...well that begs to question why is that. Yes you know your template but so do a great deal of bounty hunters. What makes them any different?
2. Nearly all high level MOBs are now armor break immune. Do you have any idea how big of a blow that is to a melee/jedi character? That removes 60% of our PVE damage. Try that with your rifle, carbine, or pistol. I'm sure you'd agree with me that its unfair and there is no advantage to being a jedi in pve anymore. Loss of lightsaber damage reduced jedi this makes it even worse.
Ok for this i will agree with you. AB is one of the key abilities for a melee character. but it is not immune but more highly resist as it might as well be immune. No one should be able to solo Krayt Dragons or any creature like them. They were designed to be group Mobs...not solo mobs
3. AI no longer functions as intended. Need I say more? You can't tank a mob with the master level tanking skill... Good job there...
Not really...you just cant tank elite/boss mobs
4. Healing. You CM/Docs out there know what I'm talking about. Not every jedi has the 1500 heals that we were 'balanced' against.
This is a old issue. I firmly believe that they should have better heals than the Jedi. If you think about it they are doing nothing BUT healing and that is thier trade. The Jedi are not healers...they were supposed to be diplomats(even if it require hostile negotiations)
5. Ganking. Given the current rules for snare NEVER should a jedi have to face two ranged professions at once. Because snare can be applied without an anger like buff the jedi would never have a chance. One bh on one side the other on the other side and a dead snared jedi in the center.
Ifyou search this board you will see countless posts about pwning jedi and how easy we are now. Given my recent experiences I cannot disagree.
This again has been brought up...but to counter this argument...you were on the terms and only 5 BH can grab your mission. We dont know who the mark is..just where.
Jedi vs. BH: The problem with the system
The jedi vs. BH system has seriously fractured this community. The hatred is far too great, and it spills into new character that areworking to become jedi. Why they hatejedi isridiculous. Nearly everyone in the game is working toward one orhas one.Blind hatred tears the community apart.
Possible solutions:
1. Remove all penalties for BH deaths. You will scream about this, but I guarantee you would have more and better fights if people didn't fear and run. I know that I would have fought you everytime when I was just starting for experience alone. BH's become content for jedi too. See above rebuttal for the jedi needs to be hard comment. IT NO LONGER APPLIES IN THIS GAME.
Hard? yes. Challanging? Yes. But im afraid im going to have to use the cliche. You got on the terms because your Jedi gained to much Vis. Either by waving your glowstick in Theed Starport or by grinding someplace. The Jedi must reap what they have sowed.
2. Remove jedi from player bounties. Problem solved. Drastic but completely understandable should it happen. Ganking, grieving, and nerfing have made this the easy solution, and remember the dev would rather remove code than add it... If something is considered overpowered it gets nerfed or removed. Revamps take too many dev resources and given their current direction of development in the game I doubt they have future plans for anything.
I am impartial to this. I am not big on Player Bounties but lean more to PVE. However there are those that want to fight a human being then a computer. Human Beings tend to give a better fight and do more to interest than a computer can be programmed to do.
3. Give jedi a reward/reason to fight you. XP gain, perks, anything that might be worth the risk of fighting you. Remember no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise wedo not have to fight you. And unless you snare/root us we can't be forced to. That is not limited to negative BH penalties. We know you have nothing to lose. And weknow you will never accept losing something (ironic huh?). But at the very least the jedi should be rewarded for DBing you.
Actually we do have something to lose. But most Jedi do not take this into account or just dont care to listen to it. Lets break sown what exactlly the BH has to lose.
1. One set of armor(using recon for this)= $3-5mill depending on server for 8K energy 7K kinetic 6K element.
2. Weapons = capped in allno matter what weapon is going to cost anywhere around $3-5 mill.
3. Slicing of weapon = 250K credits minimum Armor = 500K minimum
4. 12 ADK = minimum i have seen is $10 Million a piece. this is for the armor and 3 weapons(rifle, carb, pistol)
5. CA/AA (granted we can get them for free but no garauntee on if we get one.) = price range from $5-16 million
6. Droids = the cheapest there is i have seen on my server is 1500 credits
7. Foods = again will vary but i would say around 25K credits.
Now the most expensive thing is the ADK....well if we dont we have decay from dieing, your weapon does not since most planets have shrines. Your robes and sabers are safe from this. While you AB you are destroying more of our equipment and even if we win we are not nearly making up the money to repair/replace it.
If you remove penalties for jedi the 'farming' issue that was in place with the names on the terminal is eliminated. THAT is why jedi lost xp.
When the system was first in place killing a jedi was the largest payout possible to a player, andto make sure that this was not abused the jedi xp loss was in place (this occurred in several different methods). Its an outdated system that breeds hate on both sides and it is time that it is revamped.
Don't kid yourselves, if you were jedi population control you'd be killing FS grinders trying to stop them from becoming jedi. Pre village the hologrind was slowing people, but that would have only been a temporary solution, as people continue to play they work toward their goal regardless of the speed they reach it.
Conclusion: This game needs to remove the tension between the most played (BH) profession and the most sought after (Jedi) profession. As of right now the game is not balanced. Ranged can kill melee with ease. Until this changes the game is not worth playing. Finally something will need to be done.
Make the experience better for both players. Our community deserves it.
Flaming or calling me a fool will not change the truth of the situation. Something has to change for the good of the game.
Message Edited by Yoiaholic1 on 10-20-2005 05:53 PM
You get armor decay from EVERYTHING IN THE GAME. Jedi used to be the exception. Now you get armor decay from us, If we had LS damage I'msure you'd complain about not using armor too though. Now NPC's decay my bh's armor at alarming rates. Its part of the game. That is NOT risk.
You do not lose condition on a weapon when you die. ONLY when it is used. The same is true for a jedi. Again, there is no risk there.
About the armor:
1. I pay for it in skill points. Just like a TKM would. I don't decay, sorry. But there are jedi that have very little armor too.
2. Some pay for it in force. Force usage is the ultimate limiter. I have only so long until I will die and nothing short of a holo will change that for me. You can manage your action and mind (as can I) but the force bar is a totally different thing. Its more of a limiter than you know.
So that arguement is really out the door. True it takes good equiptment to hunt us but armor is optional now with the snare wars. If you can't afford the decay snare and kite me to death. It is being done all over the place.
EDIT:
ADDING TO ABOVE
*Foods: I use foods, as should any jedi. No risk there at all.
*Droids: If you use one I'll kill it, if you heal it its an exploit. Sorry. Really not worth it for jedi missions
*ADK's: We all have them or our pearls would be dust.
*AA/CA: How can you say this is bh only? Do jedi not have them as well?
*Slicing: Can't slice my lightsaber but you better believe I'd pay every credit to do so without hesitation.
Message Edited by Yoiaholic1 on 10-20-2005 07:42 PM
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
You get armor decay from EVERYTHING IN THE GAME. Jedi used to be the exception. Now you get armor decay from us, If we had LS damage I'msure you'd complain about not using armor too though. Now NPC's decay my bh's armor at alarming rates. Its part of the game. That is NOT risk.
Sad to this but that is a RISK! As a good deal of jedi have come over to these boards and stated that they enjoy using Armor Break just so that we have to go out and buy more armor. Money is our risk....your is xp. Both are a risk. you lose you lose xp. we lose we lose money..and have to spend more to fix/replace what was damaged. this is why Jedi say we dont have anything to lose....when you fail to realize that we are BH..Bh get paid. no money no hunting because we cant afford to replace what was damaged.
You do not lose condition on a weapon when you die. ONLY when it is used. The same is true for a jedi. Again, there is no risk there.
So we are to fight you using harsh words? What do you think we are using when we fight you? You can craft your weapon...we have to buy ours.
About the armor:
1. I pay for it in skill points. Just like a TKM would. I don't decay, sorry. But there are jedi that have very little armor too.
As do we...its called mitigation to wear it. And our armor does jack to nothing to defend us against your energy saber. And ours do decay and if we fight one after another is adds up quick.
2. Some pay for it in force. Force usage is the ultimate limiter. I have only so long until I will die and nothing short of a holo will change that for me. You can manage your action and mind (as can I) but the force bar is a totally different thing. Its more of a limiter than you know.
I have seem a jedi fight on while kneeling keeping his Force regened at a much faster rate and still able to attack.
So that arguement is really out the door. True it takes good equiptment to hunt us but armor is optional now with the snare wars. If you can't afford the decay snare and kite me to death. It is being done all over the place.
Yes but not every BH out there has a snare now do they? So that blows your argument out the door. You started this thread in a good tone, dont stop that tone and get annoying.
frankenstienmonster wrote:
This thread has been taken over by people that have no understanding of either profession...
Yoiaholic1 wrote:
You get armor decay from EVERYTHING IN THE GAME. Jedi used to be the exception. Now you get armor decay from us, If we had LS damage I'msure you'd complain about not using armor too though. Now NPC's decay my bh's armor at alarming rates. Its part of the game. That is NOT risk.
Sad to this but that is a RISK! As a good deal of jedi have come over to these boards and stated that they enjoy using Armor Break just so that we have to go out and buy more armor. Money is our risk....your is xp. Both are a risk. you lose you lose xp. we lose we lose money..and have to spend more to fix/replace what was damaged. this is why Jedi say we dont have anything to lose....when you fail to realize that we are BH..Bh get paid. no money no hunting because we cant afford to replace what was damaged.
EVERYONE THAT USES ARMOR OR WEAPONS GETS DECAY. ITS NOT A RISK ITS PART OF THE COMBAT SYSTEM. BH's ARE NOT SPECIAL IN THIS REGARD.
ARMOR BREAK DOES NOT ACTUALLY BREAK YOUR ARMOR. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
You do not lose condition on a weapon when you die. ONLY when it is used. The same is true for a jedi. Again, there is no risk there.
So we are to fight you using harsh words? What do you think we are using when we fight you? You can craft your weapon...we have to buy ours.
I HAVE TO LOOT ALL OF MY OWN PEARLS AND CRYSTALS. IF I COULD BUY A TRIPLE CAPPED SABER I WOULD IN A HEARTBEAT. AGAIN YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW THE JEDI PROFESSION WORKS.
About the armor:
1. I pay for it in skill points. Just like a TKM would. I don't decay, sorry. But there are jedi that have very little armor too.
As do we...its called mitigation to wear it. And our armor does jack to nothing to defend us against your energy saber. And ours do decay and if we fight one after another is adds up quick.
Oh, ok, I didn't realize that when I hit you for 1000 points in pvp that your armor doesn't migate and reduceit. Sorry. And I thought there was an energy resist on lightsabers.
/sarcasm off
Plus you have the right to wear your armor with your profession, you don't pay for it. You'd be a master BH whether it was there or not. If a jedi wants armor he has to go up the defender trees. You have no idea what you are talking about!
2. Some pay for it in force. Force usage is the ultimate limiter. I have only so long until I will die and nothing short of a holo will change that for me. You can manage your action and mind (as can I) but the force bar is a totally different thing. Its more of a limiter than you know.
I have seem a jedi fight on while kneeling keeping his Force regened at a much faster rate and still able to attack.
AGAIN YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND JEDI. HE WAS REGENERATING MIND AND ACTION. FORCE DOES NOT REGENERATE FASTER EVEN IF YOU SIT DOWN.
So that arguement is really out the door. True it takes good equiptment to hunt us but armor is optional now with the snare wars. If you can't afford the decay snare and kite me to death. It is being done all over the place.
Yes but not every BH out there has a snare now do they? So that blows your argument out the door. You started this thread in a good tone, dont stop that tone and get annoying.
Seriously, why are you in this forum venting ? Not like jedi players ever thought they needed one before trolling ours or anybody else's.
Want to know why no other profession cares about your so-called nerf? Because many of your brethren have done nothing the last year except troll Bounty Hunter,Combat Medic, and Smuggler forums cryning for our skills to be nerfed just because you lost a fight. You guys did it so consistently day after day that this turned from a Jedi VS Bh warinto Jedi vs everyone. You've been told time after time , STAY OFF THE TERMINALS.It's real easy and not that hard to do,especially now. You even get a second character slot to do with as you wish.Sorry your precious jedi skills weren't addressedthis patch so thatsquad leader and commando for once in a lifetime could get their professions fixed.
When a nerf happens to one of us,you guys tell us to suck it up and learn better skills, or be a true hunter. So know we say the same to you. Suck it up, learn to adapt,and become a true jedi by STAYING OFF THE TERMINALS.