Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: publish 20 hysteria, a jedi's perspective
DekkoFett wrote:
This is a problem for both GCW and XP. Those Jedi you just talked about in #3 above...well. They will never become visible if they are in constant groups with no one around to make them visible. This also affects GCW with the PvP Jedi Gank Squads. I know Jedi Gank Squads who bring an ALL-IN-ONE BASE TAKEDOWN character to bases with full groups of Jedi. A group of7 Jedi who know what they are doing can clear even the most difficult base NPCs. Now since they are grouped, even full template Jedi who only participate in the GCW when taking a base will no longer go on the terminals either.
I have seen other replies like this, and I think you all are forgetting something:
If a jedi is killing NPC's, or anything within 32m of an NPC, they are gaining visibility.
Same goes on Kashyyk - the only mobs on Kash worth grinding are the wookiees. NPC's. They generate vis.
The "no group vis" is not going to keep jedi off the terms, it's just going to allow them to be able to enjoy playing with their friends.
There seems to be a lot of mis-understandings and knee-jerk reactions going on... 
Message Edited by rLobster on 07-07-2005 09:48 AM
Ya... I saw someone suggested that there should be a system message telling you the name when you get close.
"You have spotted your mark. you are now within 500m of "<jedi name>" "
Sounds like a good idea.
You make some good points, but I can never agree completely with 1vs1. I too have a Jedi I am working on, but BHing is still my greatest love in this game. Some guildies and I went out on Sunday and we had a group of 5 and took the time to get the same missions. Most of the marks went down with little effort which wasn't surprising given there were 5 of us (usually 4 since there always seemed to be a 5th person that couldn't find the mission) and we came upon one of our marks and he killed all 4 people that went against him. I have no idea what template he had, but he rocked my buddies. My point being that if there is a template out there that can withstand 4 BHs then there will be no chance of a lone BH taking out the same mark.
But speaking of tact, one of our marks was in Theed so while my buddies were looking for his mission, I popped over to see what he was up to. I found him dueling another Jedi. Needless to say when I saw his health drop and he couldn't keep up with the heals I couldn't resist and finished him off hehe. By far the easiest 226k I've made so far.
Another reason that the group visiability shoul dnot be an issues is because of the fact Jedi cannot level currently solo (effectively)
Now PRE-CU a paddy could walk in the wild looking for un naamed lairs. Jedi's at that time had a pve bonus (which unbalanced them in pve once templated) and a higher DPS, along with a damage type that mobs did not have a protection to . this allowd the soloing paddy to get 100 an hour if they had a couple of tier 4 boxes. And that was still a tough grind once you consider that unlike an elite template a Jedi needs over 32 mil xp to comlete their template. What this meant was pre-cu you only saw paddy missions generated on those that made visibility mistakes.
Now Post CU. Because of the need to balance Jedi the damage type was changed, pve bonus remove and reduced DPS. This meant that someone with MASTER saber could only get 40k an hour solo. That is insane and 20 or less if they were not master saber. Now that grind is insane. Remember Jedi XP is 1/5 of what normal xp is and a Jedi needs 3 times the xp of an elite template. They had several options here to fix this but the most balancing method is to allow Jedi to group since the CU is all about grouping. This has lead to a post-cu boom of BH missions on paddy's. All this will do is put the POST-CU paddy mission count back to pre-cu levels
On Kashyyk
That is a problem not easily solved. Removing xp there is not really viable. Kash also allows the new player to level in a quest oriented system as opposed to grinding and if you remove the xp it would ruin that.
I am not sure how to solve that but removing the xp period would be problematic
Oss_Wilum wrote:
I am currently a jedi, and to some that may invalidate my opinion from here on out, but i was once a master bounty hunter, and i was a carbineer along with it, during the days of marksman and scout mastery and when carbineers killed ourselves faster than the enemy.
I honestly cannot understand why there's such an uproar, but here's the main concerns i've seen:
1) Mission Payouts
2) 1 Vs 1 BH missions
3) Kashyyyk hunting with the lack of names
4) Group Visibility
5) Mission Decay
1) There is the opinion among most of you that jedi mission payouts are being nerfed to 52k, that is not the case as i understand it. The true payout will now be:
45k-52k + Bonus for jedi time on terminal + Bonus for jedi level
with that formula, i doubt the prices will fluctuate, HOWEVER, the price one bounty hunter gets on a jedi will not be the same as on another BH gets by a difference of up to 7k creds.
If we took it to mean, say, 25k for every day the bounty is on the terms, and 500 credits for every SP invested in jedi, a full template double mastery that has been on for a day will pay approximately 183k-190k credits, not so much of a difference, right? after 3 days he'd be worth more than he would have normally, and if any of these values are higher, it's a BH pay INCREASE
2) There is the opinion among most of you that a full template BH cannot solo a full template jedi. i ask you: should you be able to? the reason you have first strike is because you are theoretically weaker than said jedi, and with the first strike advantage you can kill him when he's in a weakened, tired state(consider if he'd just channeled a few times, he could be as low as 500 health). In the current system, you have both first strike, but if you work with another bounty hunter, you can overwhelm the jedi in damage and healing also.
Imagine 2 MBH/MCM/0004Pistoleers after 1 jedi. they can outheal, outdamage, and keep him in 1 place, they also get to choose when. is it fair? I would be inclined to say no.
3) Kashyyyk I agree with you on all points, they should remove XP on that planet, however, kashyyyk is not the most efficient place to get XP, and hopefully with group visibility turned off many jedi will consider leaving the safety of kashyyyk.
I hope XP on kashyyyk is turned off.
4) Group visibilty is an odd thing to be upset over. there's already more jedi on the terms than bounty hunters to hunt them. visibilty isn't hard to get and being on the terms is a cinch, i think this is just from bitterness imo.
5) Mission decay
How long does it take you to complete a bounty? they intend for you to stalk your prey, 3 days should be more than enough time, but the way it is now, a jedi mission could be banged out in 30 minutes, which is too short if you ask me. i don't think this will be a practical problem, just atheoretical ending, and even if your mission decays after 3 days, who's to say you can just go pick it up again? it's not like theres a penalty for failing.
I hope i've expressed my opinions well enough to those of you who cared enough to listen without the arbitrary and knee-jerk: OMG jedi get back to your own forums \/\/tf troll!
1) Youhave misunderstood the complaints about mission payouts. It isn't about how much we are getting paid. It's about the fact that we can't prepare ourselves for the level of Jedi that we are about to face. There is no good reason behind this, other than to assist Jedi.
2) Ok, so I get first strike. Here's the problem. When I go up against a Jedi that I NEED to use first strike against when he gets down that low on health, I run into several probelms.
- These Jedi rarely actually get that low because they are so powerful. At least the way the game is currently running.
- These Jedi also can jump right back up and fully heal (or at least heal halfway if they are slow) before I can move in for the DB. At this point, I'm within the killing zone, and the Jedi is no longer at such a low health level that I can one shot for the win. The fight has now shifted to the hands of the Jedi, and I best run, because otherwise I'm going home in a body bag. All the surprise in the world doesn't help when the Jedi can negate that firstincap and return to the status quo before I can DB and complete the mission.
- Whatever could have conceivably brought that Jedi down so low will probably kill me too, which is a problem if that happens before I can get the DB, assuming the Jedi can't just get back up before I can DB anyways.
- Even without healing, the Jedi can still probably get right back up before I can DB and then cloak. Game over.
- Believe it or not, first strike isn't as big a help as you might think. All it does is keep me from being a red dot on the radar. A cunning Jedi would treat any PC dot on the radar as a potential red dot anyways, so that really doesn't help me. That pretty much limits my chances to the slow witted Jedi. But then again, you don't need to be that smart to run a high template Jedi. Most of the survival skills are built in anyways.**EDIT**Not saying Jedi are stupid. Just saying that you don't need to be any more cunning to play a Jedi successfully than you do to play most other professions successfully, and perhaps even less so. This doesn't mean Jedi are stupid, it just means that I don't think being a Jedi automatically means one is smart or stupid.
3) While I disagree with you that Kashyyk is not the most efficient place to gain XP, we'll skip that for now. The point is that it is the most efficient place at not being killed often enough to offset the amount of XP you are gaining. The sheer volume of Jedi grinding there proves this point.
4) Bitterness? I think not. It's about the fact that this is just one more thing to protect Jedi. You think that removing group vis will get Jedi off Kashyyk? Let's just go with that for now. You can't be tracked on Kashyyk. Names and amounts will be removed from the terminals, so you can't scout Kashyyk for targets anymore. Kashyyk effectively becomes the place you are hardest to find. Jedi are already group grinding there, so if they don't gain vis from this group, then the only way they will gain vis is from a solo player watching them to generate vis. But since you can't find that one person on the terms, there will be no way to actually generate a mission for yourself. All Jedi have to do is group and grind on Kashyyk and they generate little to no visibility, and even when they do generate it, they are next to impossible to find. That's the problem. When this happens, I expect that last 10 or so percent of Jedi who don't hunt their to cave and then all Jedi will be there.
5) There is mission decay currently anyways. I don't see much complaining about this myself. However I wanted to respond to your last point on this. You said it isn't like there is a penalty for failing. But anyone who read the DEVS suggestions at fanfest knows that it is something they had in the works along with the current changes. I don't doubt that it is far behind. What is your response then?
You completely missed the complaints about the removal of mark names. How do I find a mark on Kashyyk now. Before I could at least either make a list of all the Jedi on the hotspots, or when I found a mission on a mark on Kash, I could go and then search the hotspots for that Jedi. Now do I just run around hitting TAB until I find my mark? What about factional BH who won't want to hunt same faction Jedi. Or BH who don't want to hunt Jedi in their guild, or just Jedi friends. Or BH who don't want to target the same mark repeatedly, out of "kindness" or just out of a desire not to be punished for "griefing" that Jedi. There are so many things wrong with this, as well as everything else, that I'm on the brink of quitting if this patch goes through.
Message Edited by wyzer301 on 07-07-2005 03:11 AM
Oss_Wilum wrote:
I am currently a jedi, and to some that may invalidate my opinion from here on out, but i was once a master bounty hunter, and i was a carbineer along with it, during the days of marksman and scout mastery and when carbineers killed ourselves faster than the enemy.
I honestly cannot understand why there's such an uproar, but here's the main concerns i've seen:
1) Mission Payouts
2) 1 Vs 1 BH missions
3) Kashyyyk hunting with the lack of names
4) Group Visibility
5) Mission Decay
1) There is the opinion among most of you that jedi mission payouts are being nerfed to 52k, that is not the case as i understand it. The true payout will now be:
45k-52k + Bonus for jedi time on terminal + Bonus for jedi level
with that formula, i doubt the prices will fluctuate, HOWEVER, the price one bounty hunter gets on a jedi will not be the same as on another BH gets by a difference of up to 7k creds.
If we took it to mean, say, 25k for every day the bounty is on the terms, and 500 credits for every SP invested in jedi, a full template double mastery that has been on for a day will pay approximately 183k-190k credits, not so much of a difference, right? after 3 days he'd be worth more than he would have normally, and if any of these values are higher, it's a BH pay INCREASE
Seems like that is now a mute issue as the prices for killing a jedi hasn't changed, the prices are just hidden, so we should still be getting 226k for a full temp jedi.
2) There is the opinion among most of you that a full template BH cannot solo a full template jedi. i ask you: should you be able to? the reason you have first strike is because you are theoretically weaker than said jedi, and with the first strike advantage you can kill him when he's in a weakened, tired state(consider if he'd just channeled a few times, he could be as low as 500 health). In the current system, you have both first strike, but if you work with another bounty hunter, you can overwhelm the jedi in damage and healing also.
Imagine 2 MBH/MCM/0004Pistoleers after 1 jedi. they can outheal, outdamage, and keep him in 1 place, they also get to choose when. is it fair? I would be inclined to say no.
First strike means nothing, BH specials are useless and the multipliers the specials give are laughable for a class that is meant to be 1 on 1 specailist. The template you mentioned damage output would not be greater than a jedi, its defence against melee and ranged would be so poor that his healing wouldn't be able to keep up with a jedi damage output and the accurancy that template would have wielding any ranged weapon means he would only hit 1 in every 3, possibly 1 in 6 against a mdef. The template you were probably thinking of was MRM/MCM/ bh 4-0-0-0 which cannot hunt jedi anymore. For this to work bh need a damage increase, just against jedi.
3) Kashyyyk I agree with you on all points, they should remove XP on that planet, however, kashyyyk is not the most efficient place to get XP, and hopefully with group visibility turned off many jedi will consider leaving the safety of kashyyyk.
I hope XP on kashyyyk is turned off.
Cool
4) Group visibilty is an odd thing to be upset over. there's already more jedi on the terms than bounty hunters to hunt them. visibilty isn't hard to get and being on the terms is a cinch, i think this is just from bitterness imo.
Doesn't affect me couldn't give a toss.
5) Mission decay
How long does it take you to complete a bounty? they intend for you to stalk your prey, 3 days should be more than enough time, but the way it is now, a jedi mission could be banged out in 30 minutes, which is too short if you ask me. i don't think this will be a practical problem, just atheoretical ending, and even if your mission decays after 3 days, who's to say you can just go pick it up again? it's not like theres a penalty for failing.
Takes away the stalking element. Also when BH's complain about not being able to take down a knight, a jedi response is "wait for the right time to strike", it could take more than 3 days for the right time.
I hope i've expressed my opinions well enough to those of you who cared enough to listen without the arbitrary and knee-jerk: OMG jedi get back to your own forums \/\/tf troll!
You have, but it still looks like a complete BH nerf and a complete jedi love fest. There is nothing in this patch that can even be classed as bh love. The bh tef only affects low lvl jedi, which I haven't hunted in over a year, full template jedi will love this as they are now the untouchable gods they always wanted to be.
1) dont care
2) this is going to be beatin into glue...jedi are stronger believe it or not the 1st strike is not all that great. Yeah we can wait til you are weak from grinding, dueling ect but I fully expect to here greif calls once this is in full effect. Rather make a system of jedi lvl increases number of BH ie paddy 1 bh, Knight 2 bh, Guardian/Master 4 BH
3) kashyyyk is a jedi haven and will stay that way.
4)dont care
5)30 minutes? Man you are a fast BH! Show me how you bang out a mark in 30 minutes PLEASE! Most of mine play the run/hide/log game which has taken 3-5 days (I can be stubborn)
