Bounty Hunter Archive

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JediGias wrote:
I know people are still working on trying to figure out how the new speed system works, but please remember to post here any new conclusions you come to. We are all anxious to know if the system is the same or if it has changed and to what. What is 65 rifle speed indicitive of. How does general ranged speed interact with this? What is the new cap for rifles? It is the same as the other weapons? Is it possible for us to reach it and how. I know most likely people do not have answers to these at this time, but I hope that they come soon. I hope that it is just the same old speed system, because our rifle speed is reduced to 65 at master. That means we could retain the same speed system since it would be nigh impossible to cap. We would need +25 in tapes just to get to 90, and then depending on how general ranged speed worked we might be able to cap or not.

Well, I know I will need to wait on these answers, I just hope they come soon. Im hope for the best for us.

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general speed + specific speed = specific speed

so currently at master you hit 100 rifle speed (between marksmen and riflemen speed mods)

this of course does not mean the same thing as 100 does now as there now is no speed cap - just points of dimishing returns

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Ackehece wrote:

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JediGias wrote:
I know people are still working on trying to figure out how the new speed system works, but please remember to post here any new conclusions you come to. We are all anxious to know if the system is the same or if it has changed and to what. What is 65 rifle speed indicitive of. How does general ranged speed interact with this? What is the new cap for rifles? It is the same as the other weapons? Is it possible for us to reach it and how. I know most likely people do not have answers to these at this time, but I hope that they come soon. I hope that it is just the same old speed system, because our rifle speed is reduced to 65 at master. That means we could retain the same speed system since it would be nigh impossible to cap. We would need +25 in tapes just to get to 90, and then depending on how general ranged speed worked we might be able to cap or not.

Well, I know I will need to wait on these answers, I just hope they come soon. Im hope for the best for us.

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general speed + specific speed = specific speed

so currently at master you hit 100 rifle speed (between marksmen and riflemen speed mods)

this of course does not mean the same thing as 100 does now as there now is no speed cap - just points of dimishing returns

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What does 'points of dimishing returns' actually mean please?

by my reckoning you hit +85 with master rifle and the required marksman tree's. If you master rifles and marksman then you hit +100 (due the the general speed gained in pistols and carbs trees of marksman)

interestingly pistols wont cap in this way, nor will carbs - so does this mean that rifles (with out tapes) will be faster than pistols and carbines as now (lame) or is that too much of a generalisation just yet (e.g. will depend much more on the weapon speed)

has anyone worked out the new (is there a new?) formulae yet, or is it the same crap as now (eg. cap any weapon speed and special at mod +100)

Message Edited by Hairycarpet on 04-05-2005 05:13 PM

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Ackehece wrote:

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JediGias wrote:
I know people are still working on trying to figure out how the new speed system works, but please remember to post here any new conclusions you come to. We are all anxious to know if the system is the same or if it has changed and to what. What is 65 rifle speed indicitive of. How does general ranged speed interact with this? What is the new cap for rifles? It is the same as the other weapons? Is it possible for us to reach it and how. I know most likely people do not have answers to these at this time, but I hope that they come soon. I hope that it is just the same old speed system, because our rifle speed is reduced to 65 at master. That means we could retain the same speed system since it would be nigh impossible to cap. We would need +25 in tapes just to get to 90, and then depending on how general ranged speed worked we might be able to cap or not.

Well, I know I will need to wait on these answers, I just hope they come soon. Im hope for the best for us.

---

general speed + specific speed = specific speed

so currently at master you hit 100 rifle speed (between marksmen and riflemen speed mods)

this of course does not mean the same thing as 100 does now as there now is no speed cap - just points of dimishing returns

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also... specials work entirely differently.

specials work ENTIRELY differently.

you won't ever speedcap /snipershot. trust me on this one. /overchargeshot? probably not. if a special attack has a wind-up timer, that cuts into your speedcap. while the special 'cools-down' or 'recharges', you're losing speed. SPEED WILL MAKE YOU FASTER, but we don't know how fast. A FAST WEAPON WILL FIRE/SWING FASTER THAN A SLOW WEAPON, but we don't much understand the weapon speeds (and won't) until we see weaponsmiths to craft them. AT A CERTAIN POINT, A HIGHER SKILLMOD WILL OFFER LESS BENEFIT, but we don't know where this point is... yet.

we're looking at a number of bugs with specials AND the devs have removed elite trainers from the server (they missed a fencer, but not a rifleman), so right now we're not able to do more than speculate.

I know people are still working on trying to figure out how the new speed system works, but please remember to post here any new conclusions you come to. We are all anxious to know if the system is the same or if it has changed and to what. What is 65 rifle speed indicitive of. How does general ranged speed interact with this? What is the new cap for rifles? It is the same as the other weapons? Is it possible for us to reach it and how. I know most likely people do not have answers to these at this time, but I hope that they come soon. I hope that it is just the same old speed system, because our rifle speed is reduced to 65 at master. That means we could retain the same speed system since it would be nigh impossible to cap. We would need +25 in tapes just to get to 90, and then depending on how general ranged speed worked we might be able to cap or not.

Well, I know I will need to wait on these answers, I just hope they come soon. Im hope for the best for us.

Im so curious which muppet of a dev thinks it makes sense for testers to 'speculate' on how something should work. In order to test speed, the mechanic needs to be known, all this guess work is what put SWG in the mess it is now.

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Hairycarpet wrote:
Im so curious which muppet of a dev thinks it makes sense for testers to 'speculate' on how something should work. In order to test speed, the mechanic needs to be known, all this guess work is what put SWG in the mess it is now.

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it is much harder to game a system if you do not know all the mechanics used behind the scenes. That being said I am sure someone will eventually calculate out the fomulae (which now is possibly different for each and every professions) and is no longer a linear equation or logerithmic. (I plan to use SPSS to do a scatter plot and then place a regression equation on it to see what the system tells me the regression equation is.)

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Ackehece wrote:

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Hairycarpet wrote:
Im so curious which muppet of a dev thinks it makes sense for testers to 'speculate' on how something should work. In order to test speed, the mechanic needs to be known, all this guess work is what put SWG in the mess it is now.

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it is much harder to game a system if you do not know all the mechanics used behind the scenes. That being said I am sure someone will eventually calculate out the fomulae (which now is possibly different for each and every professions) and is no longer a linear equation or logerithmic. **(I plan to use SPSS to do a scatter plot and then place a regression equation on it to see what the system tells me the regression equation is.)**

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This is exactly why I wanted you as correspondant

The new system with windup, action, and cool down GREATLY complicates the equation, especially when trying to back-calculate like we do. As it stands, we don't have access to enough special attacks, abilities, or skill modifiers to start these calculations and extrapolations.
Give us time though. We are working on it.

THank both of you so much. Im glad there are guys like you out there working hard for the benefit of all of us. It gives me a lot of hope for our profession.

It's not as bad as it looks at first glance, the basic speed equation should be fairly easy to determine by using a number of known speed values and a no warm-up/cool-down attack. Determining the specific warm-up, cool-down and special multipliers could be much more tricky. The first trick being finding out whether warm-ups and cool-downs are effected by weapon speed, by weapon speed and skill mods or if they're fixed values.

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JediGias wrote:
THank both of you so much. Im glad there are guys like you out there working hard for the benefit of all of us. It gives me a lot of hope for our profession.

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both of us? whozat?

we've got a solid crew on TC right now, testing all aspects of the game (we're locked in novice profession testing right now... but we've all got the eyes of a long-gunner).

we're already getting good rifle tests (as much as can be gotten from marksman skills) from a host of players who aren't riflefolk.

a lot of the folks adding their efforts to this endeavor, and compiling critical data, don't much post in this forum... or post in places/threads where you might miss their work.

there are 'guys like us out there working hard for the benefit of all of us' who will never get the credit that they're due... but while we're trying to target a /thanks, let's use what we have NOW: our AOE's.

(equip "thanks_rifle")
/targ Ackehece;
/strafeshot2;
/strafeshot2;
/strafeshot2;

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lammergeier wrote:

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JediGias wrote:
THank both of you so much. Im glad there are guys like you out there working hard for the benefit of all of us. It gives me a lot of hope for our profession.

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both of us? whozat?

we've got a solid crew on TC right now, testing all aspects of the game (we're locked in novice profession testing right now... but we've all got the eyes of a long-gunner).

we're already getting good rifle tests (as much as can be gotten from marksman skills) from a host of players who aren't riflefolk.

a lot of the folks adding their efforts to this endeavor, and compiling critical data, don't much post in this forum... or post in places/threads where you might miss their work.

there are 'guys like us out there working hard for the benefit of all of us' who will never get the credit that they're due... but while we're trying to target a /thanks, let's use what we have NOW: our AOE's.

(equip "thanks_rifle")
/targ Ackehece;
/strafeshot2;
/strafeshot2;
/strafeshot2;

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as Lam said.... it is not just us. It is a host of people.

and lam:

X_X -ack