Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: What i think would be a good Solution to control Jedi population
Helios-IV
Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:11 am
#27
Well, from my experience of playing MMORPG's the only way to balance a class is to have a counter class.
I think of it like the old rock, paper, scissors game. Rocksmashes scissors, scissors cut the paper, and paper covers the rock. Although its a simplistic example it contains the essence of what I am trying to say.
Bounty Hunters, in my opinion, should be the absolute BANE of jedi's exsistence in this game. Bounty Hunters should be geared to taking out jedi with almost no ifs and or buts. Now of course, there is the counter of this in that something would be able to beat up a Bounty Hunter pretty damn well.
So taking my simple view of the Rocks/Scissors/Paper game into concept again. Bounty Hunters smash Jedi, Jedi cut up normals, normals "cover?" Bounty Hunters. Of course there would have to be a "advanced" Rocks/Scissors/Paper game in place to accomodate allt he classes in this game for the fighting side of it, but I think this concept is a solid technique that should be "conceptualized" and placed into the game.
I hope this doesn't sound like rambling and I hope you guys know what I am getting at. Just my opinion of course. 
DarthFettmule
Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:50 am
#28
> A form of perma death so to speak. but jedi don't lose their skills,
Well, if they (devs/suits/whatever) brought back the old 3-tree system (and maybe TEF) I for one could live with a sort
limited perma-death (no delete of toon since, but removing all jedi skills after hitting death cap).
> So what I say is if a jedi dies say 5 times in a week, That players Jedi slot becomes un-able to log on for the rest of
> the week.
Seems a little too un-severe. Say, unable to use jedi toon for 3 weeks (same as decay period for vis), or maybe being
able to logon as a blue glowie and talk (no other interaction allowed) with guildies and friends. Detahs should decay too,
maybe 3 deaths trigger a 3 week glowie period, and detahs decay with 1 death/week?
> They are still able to access their alt toon though. I really think there needs to be some reason Hedi get an alt toon
> slot these days, other then just being a Jedi. Back in the day when it was actully hard to get Jedi i can see that as an
> acceptable reward for the holo-grinding. But i dont think it is these days.
Previously when permadeath was active, it was prolly nice to have an alt to log on to and let your death count wear off. With
your suggestion alts might be more reasonable thing to have. And as for the jedi who would complain in the form of "I pay my $15
too!", well, you got your alt. And can create another 6 toons on another 6 galaxies to play.
Well, if they (devs/suits/whatever) brought back the old 3-tree system (and maybe TEF) I for one could live with a sort
limited perma-death (no delete of toon since, but removing all jedi skills after hitting death cap).
> So what I say is if a jedi dies say 5 times in a week, That players Jedi slot becomes un-able to log on for the rest of
> the week.
Seems a little too un-severe. Say, unable to use jedi toon for 3 weeks (same as decay period for vis), or maybe being
able to logon as a blue glowie and talk (no other interaction allowed) with guildies and friends. Detahs should decay too,
maybe 3 deaths trigger a 3 week glowie period, and detahs decay with 1 death/week?
> They are still able to access their alt toon though. I really think there needs to be some reason Hedi get an alt toon
> slot these days, other then just being a Jedi. Back in the day when it was actully hard to get Jedi i can see that as an
> acceptable reward for the holo-grinding. But i dont think it is these days.
Previously when permadeath was active, it was prolly nice to have an alt to log on to and let your death count wear off. With
your suggestion alts might be more reasonable thing to have. And as for the jedi who would complain in the form of "I pay my $15
too!", well, you got your alt. And can create another 6 toons on another 6 galaxies to play.
omgitsJebus
Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:33 am
#29
TFOKypster wrote:
How to fix this situation? Make the penalties more harsh! People will complain, but if the developers want to see their vision, not the small minority of the player base complain, they have to do what is right. I'm sure that the penalties might come in-affect if the FRS is available. Who is going to risk dueling in theed while a Bounty Hunter is there watching for the right moment. I've done it countless of times, waiting for my mark to be low on health or force.
1. Developers...vision? That's a joke - SOE is in this simply because of the money associated with combining Star Wars + an MMO
Promise to givethe little kids their shiny glowsticks and ubar powers...they then bug mommy and daddy to repay for account every month
2. Minority of player base?...I would hardly call Jedi a minority, you go to a planet like Dantooine or Naboo and about 6 in every 10 people is a Jedi
When I came back after a few months absence (enough time for new VIS rules, BH "revamp" etc)...I expected not to see Jedi everywhere because in theory they were being more careful with their VIS. For the first few days it seemed like that was true - then by day 3 or 4 it was back to seeing 15+ Jedi dueling in the middle of MO or Theed at all hours during the day
3. The developers doing something right?... That's a new concept. At this point updates are really
a) Nerf Jedi because all the little BHs whined for months so they get what they want now + some random stuff + break Smugglers some more (pretending to fix)
b) Nerf BHs because all the little Jedi whined for months so they get what they want now + some random stuff + break Smugglers some more (pretending to fix)
c) Break everything else and make both Jedi and BH much stronger cause they all cried that they were getting nerfed too hard
For more on 3, see 1
I say that if we reinstate perma-death on Jedi, do it to BHs also. Currently the system rewards us with no risk of penalty, minus minor armor degredation if we get killed. I'm sure if we did this then the number of "omg Jediz be h4x!!! n3rf they!!!" idiots would increase for a while, but then they'd drop BH and be out of our hair. Then only the hardcore BHs would survive and have the right to hold these discussions. Because right now most BHs just want there to be a button they can push that will instantaneously kill their mark.
To be quite honest, the progression of the BH class mentally has fallen apart. At this point we *ARE* the "other" Jedi.
Everyone in game wants to be either a Jedi or a BH, which has lead to us also being commandeered by the 12 y/os that have the need to be "uber godly" at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment..sound familiar? Sounds like a good 80% of Jedi as well... cocky, arrogant pricks who know they rule this game so everyone elses' needs are secondary to their own.
The standard analogy I use is thatBHsand Jedi are exactly likeDemocrats and Republicans.
Idealogically they're at opposite ends of the spectrum. Total black and white, night and day, etc etc
But in practice, they're the same. Crying when they caught the nerf stick, or gloating when the other has. Until such point that both BHs and Jedi can look at an update and say to themselves "Well this should change the game dynamics quite a bit...should make for some interesting battles" rather than going "OMGWTF DEVZ!!!!!11!! WHY YU NERFZ US BUT POWER THEYZ UP!!?!///! NOW WE IZ WEAK!!"...this game will always be second rate because the devs are too busy listening to the Jedi and BH whining to accomplish anything else (and I use the word accomplish in terms of the devs "work"...very, loosely) It's this same self-interest that prevents them from fixing things, or changing the other classes so people might actually want to be something other than a Jedi or BH.
Disclaimer -
1st off - If at any point I used an age reference, take note that I speak of mental age and maturity level, not physical age.
I have met many younger players who act in a dignified and respectful manner towards others...while many adults are just total jackasses
2nd - While I have painted a picture that all Jedi and BH are the same, and that they're both whiny and self-absorbed...not all.
I know many on both sides...Jedi as well as BH who are the greatest people to play and hang out with, who make this half-assed game (blame SOE) somewhat enjoyable. The sad thing is players of this caliber are rare, most Jedi/BH are the 10 y/o, "omgz i gotz a litesword!! i pwn all!!!" type of idiot. Once again, I blame SOE because they encourage this sort of thing. It's those people that they make their money off of, not the casual gamers looking for a good time. Their policy toward us is just "screw them.. we don't make as much money off of them as the kids that pay for 6 accounts and don't play half of them"
Aaaaaand I'm done. Don't ask where half of that came from, initially it was just points 1, 2, and 3...but after that the rest of it just flowed so I figured I'd leave it. Hope this provides some food for thought. I know it's a game but it's also a community, and while I've never been one for the care-bear lovey dovey view...as screwed up as this game is by SOE - it's up to us, the players; to try and add some enjoyment to this game. Just not at the expense of non-BHs/non-Jedi.
Ok, now...seriously I'm done
I'm posting this before I start ranting further, heh
Qwad
Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:54 pm
#31
How bout this;
you can't "control" the Jedi population because they are real people, not **edit**ing animals?
you can't "control" the Jedi population because they are real people, not **edit**ing animals?
Methyl
Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:01 pm
#32
Samurai_XD wrote:
A form of perma death so to speak. but jedi don't lose their skills, i know, i don't know what it's like to grind a jedi, but i know what it's like to want too compete in the GCW and not be able to form a decent battle without eachside having 10-15 jedi. So what I say is if a jedi dies say 5 times in a week, That players Jedi slot becomes un-able to log on for the rest of the week. They are still able to access their alt toon though. I really think there needs to be some reason Hedi get an alt toon slot these days, other then just being a Jedi. Back in the day when it was actully hard to get Jedi i can see that as an acceptable reward for the holo-grinding. But i dont think it is these days.Message Edited by Samurai_XD on 10-08-2005 04:59 PM
And i guess that u meen thatif the BH dies the same amount of times he wount be able to logg in for the rest of the week?
If so i hope that all BH's have more then 1 account.....
Lolindir
Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:22 am
#33
Samurai_XD wrote:
A form of perma death so to speak. but jedi don't lose their skills, i know, i don't know what it's like to grind a jedi, but i know what it's like to want too compete in the GCW and not be able to form a decent battle without eachside having 10-15 jedi. So what I say is if a jedi dies say 5 times in a week, That players Jedi slot becomes un-able to log on for the rest of the week. They are still able to access their alt toon though. I really think there needs to be some reason Hedi get an alt toon slot these days, other then just being a Jedi. Back in the day when it was actully hard to get Jedi i can see that as an acceptable reward for the holo-grinding. But i dont think it is these days.Message Edited by Samurai_XD on 10-08-2005 04:59 PM
Who died and made BH gods?
You where never meant to control anything. Jedi is your content, plain and simple.
For your information, the producers and devs control this game, not the BH population...
I am a jedi and I think it’s too many of them, or there is too many seen. What should have been done was to restrict there participation in the GCW. Then normal classes could fight all they wanted whit out too much jedi in it. How that system should work... well that’s up to some one else to figure out!
I also think that there will be less jedi in gcw when the frs is back. Then jedi will get much of there pvp needs against other jedi.
DarkStarRa
Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:33 am
#34
In WoW recently they had a huge plague, Killed most everyone on a few servers.
It would be a lot of work but i think it would be cool if under the MCM template someplace there was a mass biological warfare attack like that so you could infect other guild cities. Kill off a bunch of players, infect the city for awhile, etc.
As for it being illogical to kill off players, It is in a way.. But then again in a lot of ways it is not. Think about corporate lay offs. Its bad for the corporation short term but good for the company in the long term because you get rid of the week and are able to hire new stronger, better applicable to their jobs employees.
omgitsJebus
Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:47 pm
#35
DarkStarRa wrote:
In WoW recently they had a huge plague, Killed most everyone on a few servers.
It would be a lot of work but i think it would be cool if under the MCM template someplace there was a mass biological warfare attack like that so you could infect other guild cities. Kill off a bunch of players, infect the city for awhile, etc.
As for it being illogical to kill off players, It is in a way.. But then again in a lot of ways it is not. Think about corporate lay offs. Its bad for the corporation short term but good for the company in the long term because you get rid of the week and are able to hire new stronger, better applicable to their jobs employees.
Except what about when they're just some nublar Paddy who's barely been a Jedi more than a few days getting shredded?
Or when a random cl1 accidently tries to duel a cl80 and they Incap/DB in less than 3 hits?
This game is full of too many jackasses that just enjoy making other people feel bad in order to have their fun ingame...no way that system would work
HeadRoll
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:23 am
#36
Samurai_XD wrote:
A form of perma death so to speak. but jedi don't lose their skills, i know, i don't know what it's like to grind a jedi, but i know what it's like to want too compete in the GCW and not be able to form a decent battle without eachside having 10-15 jedi. So what I say is if a jedi dies say 5 times in a week, That players Jedi slot becomes un-able to log on for the rest of the week. They are still able to access their alt toon though. I really think there needs to be some reason Hedi get an alt toon slot these days, other then just being a Jedi. Back in the day when it was actully hard to get Jedi i can see that as an acceptable reward for the holo-grinding. But i dont think it is these days.
Message Edited by Samurai_XD on 10-08-2005 04:59 PM
This is a great idea. /sign
HeadRoll
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:24 am
#37
Triton_au wrote:
I think the Jedi represent the majority of the long term players, powergrinders and PVPers.
You forgot a significant chunk are Ebayers as well.
BobaFettish
Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:00 am
#38
If you remember Waaay back when SWG was first being developed, the devs wanted everyone to have Perma-Death.
Personally, I think that this is how it should be now.
Not just Jedi, but everyone shold get it. This would make for some very interesting playing.
The only other way to Lower the Jedi Population as i see it, is to Hand out Condoms to all prospective Jedi Perents!!!
Message Edited by BobaFettish on 10-16-2005 03:31 AM
TFOKypster
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:19 am
#39
Have you guys just don't get it, Jedi needs harsh penalities because the life of a Jedi is suppose to be hard. Look at the movies, how Anakin's life is, before and after is taken in by Obi-wan. As of right now, every publish that has helped BH, has also indirectly helped Jedi. You just have to read between the lines. And for the folk who complain about combat medic, that is not our profession, it's an support proffesion we use in our template. Jedi is not one profession parsay, it consists of five professions that are inter-twine into one template.
Bottom line is, penalties for jedi in the long run won't be a bad idea, you just have a adjust to the consquences. It takes 5 months for the village, then one month of jedi grind.