Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Legit to kill Jedi, then kill again 2 hours later?
aatc wrote:
If bounty hunters are in charge of population control, I'd say you got an F
I don't recalll Jedi losing XP any other way now.
Acheron, as a Jedi, I gotta say you're not being fair on this one. The wholesentence says "Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them". Taking a mission on a guy a couple of times in a day because that's what's available in the range the BH is looking for is one thing. That's not targetting the PLAYER. Relentlessly hunting the same guy day after day after day is something else entirely. Now to be sure, some players will twist and intentionally misconstrue what's written to make it something that goes against the spirit of the law. "Yah, I attacked the guy 24 times in 4 days, but I wasn't targetting him". Wrong answer. "Hey, the guy killed me once, but that's inconveniencing me". Wrong answer. Unfortunately, dealing with CSRs is a crapshoot. You might get one that sees things your way, but chances are equally as good that you will get one who will side with the other fella.
Acheron5 wrote:
According to the SOE Community Standards Policy:
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. Harassment can take many forms, as it goes to the state-of-mind of the person or group of persons on the receiving end of the action. However, in order to account for those who are more sensitive than others, the CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not the reported issue would be considered harassment and act accordingly. Sexual/racial harassment or hatemongering of any kind will result in the immediate termination of all SOE accounts if sufficient and proper evidence is available and verified.
It's pretty clear that this will all depend on the attitude of the player you are targetting. Players should bear in mind that in the case of a BH hunting a Jedi player the guy controlling the Jedi toon isn't himself a Jedi, just a person like yourself hoping to enjoy this game. While bounty hunting Jedi is the central aspect of the bounty hunting profession, being hunted by bounty hunters is often simply considered a nuisance by Jedi players and many of them prefer not to engage in this game system. In other words, if you're going to go after the same Jedi time and time again be sure that the Jedi in question isn't going to consider it harrasment. Some Jedi are cool with it and enjoy PvP play. Others just aren't interested or find it stupid.
If you see the Jedi on the terms the first time its fair game. If you see him there again then you're making it personal and you bear the risk of whatever consequences may come from harassing the guy.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Acheron, as a Jedi, I gotta say you're not being fair on this one. The wholesentence says "Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them". Taking a mission on a guy a couple of times in a day because that's what's available in the range the BH is looking for is one thing. That's not targetting the PLAYER. Relentlessly hunting the same guy day after day after day is something else entirely. Now to be sure, some players will twist and intentionally misconstrue what's written to make it something that goes against the spirit of the law. "Yah, I attacked the guy 24 times in 4 days, but I wasn't targetting him". Wrong answer. "Hey, the guy killed me once, but that's inconveniencing me". Wrong answer. Unfortunately, dealing with CSRs is a crapshoot. You might get one that sees things your way, but chances are equally as good that you will get one who will side with the other fella.
Acheron5 wrote:
According to the SOE Community Standards Policy:
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. Harassment can take many forms, as it goes to the state-of-mind of the person or group of persons on the receiving end of the action. However, in order to account for those who are more sensitive than others, the CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not the reported issue would be considered harassment and act accordingly. Sexual/racial harassment or hatemongering of any kind will result in the immediate termination of all SOE accounts if sufficient and proper evidence is available and verified.
It's pretty clear that this will all depend on the attitude of the player you are targetting. Players should bear in mind that in the case of a BH hunting a Jedi player the guy controlling the Jedi toon isn't himself a Jedi, just a person like yourself hoping to enjoy this game. While bounty hunting Jedi is the central aspect of the bounty hunting profession, being hunted by bounty hunters is often simply considered a nuisance by Jedi players and many of them prefer not to engage in this game system. In other words, if you're going to go after the same Jedi time and time again be sure that the Jedi in question isn't going to consider it harrasment. Some Jedi are cool with it and enjoy PvP play. Others just aren't interested or find it stupid.
If you see the Jedi on the terms the first time its fair game. If you see him there again then you're making it personal and you bear the risk of whatever consequences may come from harassing the guy.
Acheron5 wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Acheron, as a Jedi, I gotta say you're not being fair on this one. The wholesentence says "Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them". Taking a mission on a guy a couple of times in a day because that's what's available in the range the BH is looking for is one thing. That's not targetting the PLAYER. Relentlessly hunting the same guy day after day after day is something else entirely. Now to be sure, some players will twist and intentionally misconstrue what's written to make it something that goes against the spirit of the law. "Yah, I attacked the guy 24 times in 4 days, but I wasn't targetting him". Wrong answer. "Hey, the guy killed me once, but that's inconveniencing me". Wrong answer. Unfortunately, dealing with CSRs is a crapshoot. You might get one that sees things your way, but chances are equally as good that you will get one who will side with the other fella.
Acheron5 wrote:
According to the SOE Community Standards Policy:
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. Harassment can take many forms, as it goes to the state-of-mind of the person or group of persons on the receiving end of the action. However, in order to account for those who are more sensitive than others, the CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not the reported issue would be considered harassment and act accordingly. Sexual/racial harassment or hatemongering of any kind will result in the immediate termination of all SOE accounts if sufficient and proper evidence is available and verified.
It's pretty clear that this will all depend on the attitude of the player you are targetting. Players should bear in mind that in the case of a BH hunting a Jedi player the guy controlling the Jedi toon isn't himself a Jedi, just a person like yourself hoping to enjoy this game. While bounty hunting Jedi is the central aspect of the bounty hunting profession, being hunted by bounty hunters is often simply considered a nuisance by Jedi players and many of them prefer not to engage in this game system. In other words, if you're going to go after the same Jedi time and time again be sure that the Jedi in question isn't going to consider it harrasment. Some Jedi are cool with it and enjoy PvP play. Others just aren't interested or find it stupid.
If you see the Jedi on the terms the first time its fair game. If you see him there again then you're making it personal and you bear the risk of whatever consequences may come from harassing the guy.
I'm not really sure how it is that I, personally, am not being fair. Clearly it's for the CSR to make that determination, not me, and it's SOE's policy, not mine. As I stated, it will depend on the attitude of the player being targetted whether to report this or not. And as SOE stated, it will depend on the CSR to figure out if it's really harassment or not.
As a BH you may think that hunting a guy a couple of times a day because that's all that is available is fair, and I would tend to agree as the game seems to be designed that way. But from the perspective of the guy who is being hunted, he may or may not consider it harassment as defined by SOE. A BH that picks the same mission a couple of times is going to run the risk of being reported to a CSR depending on the players attitude, and depending on the CSR's attitude there may be a consequence. The game is also designed this way. It's therefore a good idea for a BH tokeep those consequences in mind when doing this.
That's not a matter of fairness, it's a matter of pragmatism and keeping the game in perspective.
I mean fair in your assessment of the rule where you state "If you see the Jedi on the terms the first time its fair game. If you see him there again then you're making it personal and you bear the risk of whatever consequences may come from harassing the guy". Hunting a guy twice in a day isn't targetting him. What if it's off-peak hours and there's only 3 Jedi online that're in the range you're comfortable with and two of those three are holed up in a house? Fight the guy once and go to bed early?
Read the first sentence I wrote again. I'm not a BH.
"You're on the terms, you're a target."
They keep getting on the terms, you can keep killing them. It's not griefing, because the players usually get themselves on the terms by doing things they can avoid.
It's harsh, but it's not griefing.
aatc wrote:
Ahh, your not a bounty hunter then.. You're one of them people that hates Jedi and hunts them so they loose XP. A REAL Bounty Hunter would be in it for the money and honor.. And you get both money and honor from marks that can defend themselves.
You sir, get an F
Have I already claimed this guy? Cant remember and Im at work atm.
If not - claimed and I only need 1 more 
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
I mean fair in your assessment of the rule where you state "If you see the Jedi on the terms the first time its fair game. If you see him there again then you're making it personal and you bear the risk of whatever consequences may come from harassing the guy". Hunting a guy twice in a day isn't targetting him. What if it's off-peak hours and there's only 3 Jedi online that're in the range you're comfortable with and two of those three are holed up in a house? Fight the guy once and go to bed early?
Read the first sentence I wrote again. I'm not a BH.
I did read your first sentence and the value of your opinion isn't affected by what profession you happen to be in the game.
The issue here isn't whether you think hunting a guy twice a day is harassment. The issue here is whether the guy who is hunted twice in a day considers it harassment and if he can convince a CSR that it is. Whether or not it happens to be peak hours for BH's to be hunting Jedi or not really isn't the Jedi players concern, though it may to some degree factor into their behavior. If the BH in question chooses to hunt the player more then once then it does become personal, regardless of whether or not there are other options for the BH player. The reason is that the BH player is making the choice to hunt that player, just as the player who is being hunted may choose to consider this harassment and report to a CSR who in turn may choose to punish the BH. The BH may make the argument that he didn't have any other choice and the CSR may make the argument that the other choice was not to hunt the same guy. As in politics, the appearance of impropriety is frequently as bad as the impropriety itself. You may not think you are harassing the guy but the appearance of harassment is just as bad and carries the same reprucussions.
In any case, with the proliferation of the Jedi population and increase in Jedi visibility as the result of the CUthe circumstances where a BH doesn't have a variety of marks to hunt at any given time are increasingly rare.
Acheron5 wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
I mean fair in your assessment of the rule where you state "If you see the Jedi on the terms the first time its fair game. If you see him there again then you're making it personal and you bear the risk of whatever consequences may come from harassing the guy". Hunting a guy twice in a day isn't targetting him. What if it's off-peak hours and there's only 3 Jedi online that're in the range you're comfortable with and two of those three are holed up in a house? Fight the guy once and go to bed early?
Read the first sentence I wrote again. I'm not a BH.
I did read your first sentence and the value of your opinion isn't affected by what profession you happen to be in the game.[Itabsolutely has bearingwhen you say "As a BH you may think that hunting a guy a couple of times a day because that's all that is available is fair,"]
The issue here isn't whether you think hunting a guy twice a day is harassment. The issue here is whether the guy who is hunted twice in a day considers it harassment and if he can convince a CSR that it is. [Ok, I'm with you here. It's about what you can convince the CSR to believe]. Whether or not it happens to be peak hours for BH's to be hunting Jedi or not really isn't the Jedi players concern, though it may to some degree factor into their behavior. If the BH in question chooses to hunt the player more then once then it does become personal, regardless of whether or not there are other options for the BH player. The reason is that the BH player is making the choice to hunt that player, just as the player who is being hunted may choose to consider this harassment and report to a CSR who in turn may choose to punish the BH. The BH may make the argument that he didn't have any other choice and the CSR may make the argument that the other choice was not to hunt the same guy. As in politics, the appearance of impropriety is frequently as bad as the impropriety itself. You may not think you are harassing the guy but the appearance of harassment is just as bad and carries the same reprucussions. [I'm reminded of Training Day. "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove." And your assessment is correct. My objection is that hunting a person twice doesn't mean that the player is being targetted, just his profession-as that's the only profession available to hunt. That's why I said it's a crapshoot. You can't guarantee a "win" in the CSR wars even if you're right. A CSR might see nothing at all wrong about ignoring multiple other Jedi to hunt the same player 6 times in a day. A different CSR might also agree that a second attempt on a Jedi is making things personal. The safest course of action for a BH is to space time out between attempts on a particular player.]
In any case, with the proliferation of the Jedi population and increase in Jedi visibility as the result of the CUthe circumstances where a BH doesn't have a variety of marks to hunt at any given time are increasingly rare.