Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Jedi a priviledge, not a right
chewie49 wrote:
as long as jedi stand to loose 4-8 hrs of GRIND, not play, but max xp grindage time to one bh encounter, which usually comes as the jedi is about l50-60, then there will be nothing but hate.
bottom line: a system where one player class is able to remove another players xp via non consensual pvp will be nothing but a hate magnet. throw in personalities on both sides, and the situation deteroriates further. that's the real issue. xp loss = hate. hate = whine. whine = nerf. nerf = hate. and it never stops.
if xp loss was removed, you would see almost every jedi stand and fight, no one would get all bent out of shape over dying, and fun would be had by all.
or keep the house sitting system we have now. jedi have absolutly no reason to ever want to fight, or for bh to even have a working profession.
problem is the broken design, and until it's changed, nothing else will.
this is very true but im sure you'll get flamed and called a cry baby for wanting to get rid of xp loss. but when you dont have anything to lose then you fight and have fun /shrug
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Farming is easily resolved.
Make sure the terminals never spit out a mission for a Jedi on the same planet as the BH.
Make sure the terminals never spit out a mission for a Jedi the BH has collected on recently.
Keep a list of 10ish names "on file" for each BH. As you kill Jedi, the list fills up. When your list is filled and you kill a Jedi, the first name drops off and the newest one is put on.
"But Leatherneck, they could just decide to split the winnings when the BH gets there."
You're right. But they could be doing that NOW.
"But Leatherneck, they don't do that because of exp loss."
Finished template Jedi have nothing to fear from exp loss. Again, they could be doing that NOW.
Message Edited by Grimjakk on 07-17-2005 02:35 PM
Grimjakk wrote:
In-game the BH/J system in NOT intended to servesas a check on population, it's intended to serveas a check on VISIBILITY. We're not there to punish you for being a Jedi, we'r there to punish you for doing things that get you on the terminals.
The system is alsoINTENDED to create "fear and loathing" between the Jedi and the Bounty Hunters. Given the types of players who are attracted to an alpha class, without the tension between them and the BH's, its arguable that there would BE no Jedi community.
I played EQ for years on Tallon Zek (Team-PvP), and the tension between the Light Teams and the Dark Team MADE that community... at least until the crossteam guilds started popping up.
explain to me how removing the names of jedi from the mission terminal will encourage the jedi duelling in starports to stop doing so? you do realize how stupid that sounds right? take the names away so no bh can see one duelling, grab his mission and then come back and gank him. obviously they'll stop duelling in cities now that they don't need to worry about stuff like that, of course, how could i be so shortsighted
Greywulf0 wrote:
Grimjakk wrote:
In-game the BH/J system in NOT intended to servesas a check on population, it's intended to serveas a check on VISIBILITY. We're not there to punish you for being a Jedi, we'r there to punish you for doing things that get you on the terminals.
The system is alsoINTENDED to create "fear and loathing" between the Jedi and the Bounty Hunters. Given the types of players who are attracted to an alpha class, without the tension between them and the BH's, its arguable that there would BE no Jedi community.
I played EQ for years on Tallon Zek (Team-PvP), and the tension between the Light Teams and the Dark Team MADE that community... at least until the crossteam guilds started popping up.
If the BH/J system was intended to serve as a check on visibility, then the system is majorly flawed. At nearly any time of day I can go to 6 or 7 starports and see jedi dueling. Theed, Coronet, Mining Outpost on Dant, Bestine, Mos Eisley, etc.
With publish 20, that might go away. But in all honesty, unless the devs bring back a system of NPC visibility deterant (saber TEF or something similiar) then there will be no true visibility check.
Greywulf0 wrote:
Grimjakk wrote:
In-game the BH/J system in NOT intended to servesas a check on population, it's intended to serveas a check on VISIBILITY. We're not there to punish you for being a Jedi, we'r there to punish you for doing things that get you on the terminals.
If the BH/J system was intended to serve as a check on visibility, then the system is majorly flawed. At nearly any time of day I can go to 6 or 7 starports and see jedi dueling. Theed, Coronet, Mining Outpost on Dant, Bestine, Mos Eisley, etc.
With publish 20, that might go away. But in all honesty, unless the devs bring back a system of NPC visibility deterant (saber TEF or something similiar) then there will be no true visibility check.
Absolutely agreed.But pub 20 will only make the issue worse, not better. No names on the terms mean no way to target the Jedi killing Stormtroopers in front of the Bounty Hunter Terms in Kaadara (true story). There needs to be a high level "Imperial Crackdown" type of system in place to enforce visibility, and a meaningful penalty to be paid even by fully temp'd Jedi who run afoul of it (force-bar "wounds", light saber component decay,orhuge FRS penalties when that system comes back?).
The player Bounty system should only be one part of the Vis-Enforcement system... but even the Jedi seem to have issues with the number of Jedi running around in the open right now.
Strangeur wrote:
The payout reflects this. You are being paid handsomelyto go after elusive and dangerous targets.
I don't agree at all. We are being paid cheaply to kill Jedi, who myseriously have multiplied by 70 from what they should be in this time line. The Bounty Hunter's guild and the Empire are being very stingy, paying a mere 225k per bounty on KNIGHTS- barely enough for avery poor-qualitysuit of armor. Split that with a group of bounty hunters and suddenly you aren't earning very much at all. Go after the Knight yourself, and you are more likely to get killed than ever earn anything at all.
My friend who is a Jedi earned more money from grinding missions for XP, than I do grinding BH missions for credits. He gets the benefits of XP as well as credits, and the BH XP I get is worthless so I only get the benefit of credits - and fewer than my Jedi friend,at that.
-o ;=-- - - - 
Strangeur wrote:
This post isn't intended to offend, nor to villify one profession over the other. Just think the community would benefit from getting things in perspective.
-A jedi's life is hard. From the outset, the system has always been stacked against the Jedi. This is intentional. You are not having as easy a run of things as all other professions. This was to discourage the wrong sorta people from playing Jedi (think people know who I mean), and to maintain a workable population of sabre-wielders in the Galaxy. But a full-template Jedi is a powerful thing indeed. Were it not, and indeed on a par with all other other professions as some claim, then players would stopchurning them out. That a minority of Jedi continue to complain how unjust the system makes grinding (for god's sake) is laughable.
-A Bounty Hunter's life is frustrating. This is also intentional. A jedi is (and should) be more powerful an opponent than any other profession. It is ridiculous to demand that a BH and Jedi be able to fight on an equal playing field. The payout reflects this. You are being paid handsomelyto go after elusive and dangerous targets. But the element of surpriseis alwayswith the BH. He alone chooses when and where the fight starts. And this fact alone is what enables that BH a chanceof taking down that Jedi. That a minority of BHs continue to complain how unjust the system makes going toe-to-toe with a prepared full-template Jedi (for god's sake) is laughable.
So...erm...yeah. As long as most people accept that, and we have a system which supportsthis relationship, the tension betweenthese two profs will diminish. And it's this tension which is making the game an unpleasant place to frequent these days.
Take care
QFE
Those who say "jedi isn't easy" then turn around and complain that jedi aren't just jumping into the boat need to read this post.
aekeem wrote:
explain to me how removing the names of jedi from the mission terminal will encourage the jedi duelling in starports to stop doing so? you do realize how stupid that sounds right? take the names away so no bh can see one duelling, grab his mission and then come back and gank him. obviously they'll stop duelling in cities now that they don't need to worry about stuff like that, of course, how could i be so shortsighted
I don't think removing the names from the terms will be the solution to jedi dueling in starports. However...not being able to have friendly BHs hold your missions, the mission payouts at the same level, having the faction shown on the terms...
All of these items will mean that the dueling WILL get BHs pulled after them. Wether the BH tries to fight or decides he can't win; that is another matter. I hope many BHs get lucky and pull missions for knights that like to duel in starports. Imagine this scenario:
1) BH grabs a mission
2) Arrkyd (or however they are spelled) comes back and says that the jedi is on Naboo (or cnet depending on faction).
3) BH jumps to the planet and sends out a seeker.
4) While waiting for the seeker, the BH idly tabs and notices that his mark is right there, dueling another jedi. (or if the BH didn't go to Theed/Cnet then the seeker tells them where to go)
5) While watching the fight, the BH waits until the jedi is damaged enough and then attacks; walks away with a nice hefty bonus. Remember, in a starport, it will be nearly impossible to for the jedi to use the /duel to check if a BH has your ticket.
Do I think this will actually curb jedi hanging out in starports? Not really, but it might. I would rather they bring back the saber TEF.
Dlek_Krego wrote:
I play a Jedi because it IS my right to do so. No BH can tell me differently. I pay a monthly subscription fee, so I have the RIGHT to play whichever profession I choose, even if I have to work harder to get it.
It's not a right....it's certainly your perogitive within the framework of the game to pursue Jedi. They could take away jedi, delete them, ban you from playing your jedi and otherwise not allow you to be your jedi without any provocation if they desire, for that reason alone it's not a right. It's like your drivers liscense, yeah you passed the driving test and you can drive but they can take that away (although the law in this country dictates that they would have to have a reason to do that) so they call it a priviledge. You can have your liscense taken away from you for not paying child support in the state of California, but you could not have your right of freedom of speech taken away for example.
YarKi wrote:
Strangeur wrote:
This post isn't intended to offend, nor to villify one profession over the other. Just think the community would benefit from getting things in perspective.
-A jedi's life is hard. From the outset, the system has always been stacked against the Jedi. This is intentional. You are not having as easy a run of things as all other professions. This was to discourage the wrong sorta people from playing Jedi (think people know who I mean), and to maintain a workable population of sabre-wielders in the Galaxy. But a full-template Jedi is a powerful thing indeed. Were it not, and indeed on a par with all other other professions as some claim, then players would stopchurning them out. That a minority of Jedi continue to complain how unjust the system makes grinding (for god's sake) is laughable.
-A Bounty Hunter's life is frustrating. This is also intentional. A jedi is (and should) be more powerful an opponent than any other profession. It is ridiculous to demand that a BH and Jedi be able to fight on an equal playing field. The payout reflects this. You are being paid handsomelyto go after elusive and dangerous targets. But the element of surpriseis alwayswith the BH. He alone chooses when and where the fight starts. And this fact alone is what enables that BH a chanceof taking down that Jedi. That a minority of BHs continue to complain how unjust the system makes going toe-to-toe with a prepared full-template Jedi (for god's sake) is laughable.
So...erm...yeah. As long as most people accept that, and we have a system which supportsthis relationship, the tension betweenthese two profs will diminish. And it's this tension which is making the game an unpleasant place to frequent these days.
Take care
I agree with most of what you said except for two points.
1. The Jedi grind in all the forms it ever exsted has always ensured that for the most part exactly the wrong person would get there first. Wether is was the KS/Stealth looting holocrons or macro (as in 3rd party macro) grinding professions or AFK macroing static spawns for FS experienceor any of the many avalable shortcuts, theones with leastscruples always got to Jedi first.
2.While Jedi still hold the edge over most combat templates there are a few that can take on fulltemplated Jedi on equal footing. The players keep on churning outJedi for three reasons. a) Some have not caught on to the idea that they can get compareable combat power through easier means or have alreadygotena largeportionofthe grind out of the way. b) Some want to be Jedi no matter what the power level is.(many new players who came into the gamewith TE fall into these two categories)c)Somesimply have nothing better left to do in the game. (Many of the game veterans are in this category).
Having said that. I think Jedi are about as right as sony managed to get them since the beginning. Substantially longer grind combined with marginally more power is the right combination. Either making the grind easier orboosting the power of the Jedi would beexactly the wrong direction to go in.
Hmm, I'd have to agree with this even more so. The past and current jedi grind really does favor the powergrinder (not all powergrinders are a problem, but I'd also venture a guess that a large number of these people used AFK grinding and ninja-looting for holocrons). I can say that I haven't relied on ANY AFK grinding, I didn't use the grenade exploit during the village (done 100% with pike and CH) and I've used only solo grinding since unlocking. I can say that I DID benefit from double XP, but other than that I have never used the available exploits in game.
I joined on day three (I tried on day one, but the account server was lagging so badly that it took me over an hour just to get my character started. I have spent a lot of time helping others to achieve their goals ( to the point where I have over 50 million prestige in space, etc.), and I'd like to think that I'm liked or at least respected on my server.
There are a lot of players who categorize all Jedi the same. I'd say that this is no more true than it is aboutbounty hunters. I'd say that the above poster has it pretty much dead on. Jedi is debatably only slightly better than a standard template. It's mostly about food and tactics at this point. Players are either going for jedi because they have wanted a glow stick since seeing ep.IV, they still THINK that it's the "uber1337 profession" (these are probably primarily the problem children hinted at in the above post) or just because it's one of the last major accomplishments in SWG. Oh, can I mention that I was one of the few who had the original intellect and altruism badges in game? It cost me 13 days (approximately 8 hours each) to get intellect and 9 weeks for altruism. I guess that you'd have to put me in group three. LOL
chewie49 wrote:
as long as jedi stand to loose 4-8 hrs of GRIND, not play, but max xp grindage time to one bh encounter, which usually comes as the jedi is about l50-60, then there will be nothing but hate.
bottom line: a system where one player class is able to remove another players xp via non consensual pvp will be nothing but a hate magnet. throw in personalities on both sides, and the situation deteroriates further. that's the real issue. xp loss = hate. hate = whine. whine = nerf. nerf = hate. and it never stops.
if xp loss was removed, you would see almost every jedi stand and fight, no one would get all bent out of shape over dying, and fun would be had by all.
or keep the house sitting system we have now. jedi have absolutly no reason to ever want to fight, or for bh to even have a working profession.
problem is the broken design, and until it's changed, nothing else will.
this is very true but im sure you'll get flamed and called a cry baby for wanting to get rid of xp loss. but when you dont have anything to lose then you fight and have fun /shrug