Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The Disintegration of the Soul of SWG -reposted
Not to be argumentative or anything. And I doubt anyone will agree with me here...
But everything you mention is not a problem of the game. Its a problem of player mentality.
I started this game at the beginning of 2004. Now, I know i'm not as old as those whose been here from the beginning, but I'm old enough to have seen alot of changes in the game. Some of them good and some of them bad.
Being a player/coders of MUDS for quite a while, I can tell you it's impossible to satisfy everyone and anyone at the same time. One of the major problems with SWG is that it is based on pre-written fiction and another is the Developers gave it a 'timeline'. Being a coder on some MUDS I know how difficult it is trying to make original content with no restraints, however, you have to give it to the Developers who are constrained on what they can or can't do, and yet they still manage to to put out a respectable product. It's probably 1000x more difficult than anyone gives the developers credit for, yet nobody cares about that. I tell you what, you build me a Space shuttle, however, you can only use the parts and blueprints to this 1989 toyota camry.
The CU to me wasn't an attempt to kill 20 birds with one stone, it was an attempt by the developers to 'standardize' everything, making it easier to add more content. NPC's are now not unique, an 'angry bag' of stats with different skins on them. Many MUDS do the same, a STD_MOB, that can be tweeked and a new description put on it. They cut down on skills and actually rehashed alot of skills. Concussion shot, stopping shot, Force suppression and other roots/snares/damage skills; they are the same skills with new names. Easier to balance a skill for everyone, if they're based on the same thing. And this was all in attempt todo what? Well, probably making it easier for them to add content and fix things on the fly.
The biggest problem to this game, or any game where people interact competively, is... its players. People are people and yet alot of people won't/can't realize this. Since this is on the BH forum, i'll use their plite as an example. Anything a BH does to kill a Jedi is an exploit to the Jedi, yet anything a Jedi does to not be killed by a BH is an exploit to the BH. Why? Because both want to win. It's not a developer issue or a profession issue. It's a people issue. I can give everyone in the game the exact same characters and remove every exploit from teh game, and I can guarantee you that alot of those players will say someone killed them due to an 'exploit'.
To me, alot of this game's problem and alot of others games problem is PvP. How do you balance the fact that another player can kill another player? I can balance a profession versus MOBS all day long, it's easy because the MOB's don't complain when they die. Yet as I mentioned above I can make everyone the same, and people will complain because they lost. And that is what is happening to this game. People, for whatever their reasons, want more.
Again, using the BH vs Jedi issue (this is gamewide), they want BH to be as strong as Jedi. But relative to what? Is it strong enough that only the Best BH's can kill Master Defender Jedi (supposidly the hardest to kill)? Or is it strong enough so that the average player can kill Master Defenders, or even strong enough that any run of the mill BH can kill a Master Defender Jedi? Pick any of those and lets look at the problems.
a) If the Best BH's can kill Master Defender Jedi, where does that put balance at? They then probably run rough shot over any non-MD templates, pushing more people to MD; leading to more people who are not the best at BH'in, not able to kill Jedi; leading to more complaints about the situation.
b) if the average guy can beat MD, then the best players will roll over everything in the game with ease. and
c) if anyone can kill a MD jedi... then whats the point.
In all 3 of these points I didnt mention one thing, because it is tied in with all of them. If any of these happen. Then there's a new 'alpha' class in the game. Make any BH able to kill the toughest Jedi, and (according to everyone else a feat nobody can do) then they roll over every other profession in the game. What then might I ask? They cycle starts anew, this time with everyone chasing something different.
No matter how much this game is 'balanced' it's never going to be balanced. Regardless of what you do, some people are better than some people are still going to be better than others. And those others will always complain and gripe about the so called 'alpha' players.
That being said there's plenty of easy fixes in this game that could be done; that should have been done already. Why is it that you can only invite someone to a group 1 time, until they accept or deny; yet you can try to duel someone, offer ride to someone, etc. a million times? Easy fix right there and doesn't require a whole lot. There's millions of things like this that can be fixed quickly and easily, yet their propagating these bugs by adding new buggy content, upon buggy content, upon buggy content. Over time you tend to forget things like, scouts not being able to trap something for exp, it they gain to many levels because of all the new bugs you created.
So my suggestion to anyone who reads this post and has no hope, is to play the game to have fun. This game or any other game is NEVER going to be perfect. It's just to big and have to many individual players in it. Everyone wants something different. Me? I could care less if the whole population was a Jedi and I was the odd man out. Yet some people threaten to quit the game because they saw more than 3 Jedi standing in the same city. It's pointless trying to badger the Dev's to make it better for you, yet someone else hates; because everyone else is badgering them right back asking them to change something else you'll probably hate.
My hope for this game is that everyone will take it to be that a 'game' You can't take it serious that a Jedi 'played' character is complaining that you're trying to kill them. Look at it from their point of view, you kill them and they loose time put into that character. See the conflict there? You're content is taking away from their content and visa-versa. This player controled player population thing is about the bass ackwards thing i've ever seen.
I love this game and alot of others games, I just wish people would stop being people long enough to realize that we are all playing this game, and to a greater extent living for the same thing,
To have fun
Ankhesanamun
Residual_Image wrote:
So, I gather from your post, that it is okay with you to be miserable about the way the game has turned, and remain unheard, because it would"make others feel worse". I am not surprised that you have the primitive philosophy of "don't like it? don't pay for it," and I am glad if that has worked for you so far. However, as in my original post, I presented my reasoning, thoughts, and actual experiences.(in a fair manner I think)
I did not post this in any way to create a clamour. My views on the game that I paid for, just as you have, I have now shared with the BH community. I will not elaborate on my post or justify my views in response to your narrow attacks. If you cannot distinguish between someone who repugnantly and obnoxiously crys about things in order to get a "pat on the back", from someone who has converted their timefrom the game we both play,into words, then perhaps I should be the one offering you a tissue.
Edited to note that this reply is directed towards JCWeeble
My regards,
Anomaly
Message Edited by Residual_Image on 07-13-2005 10:45 AM
Well.. If you subscribed to a magazine and you didn't like it, would you write a letter to every subscriber of that magazine telling them how cool you thought the magazine used to be and how much it sucks now, or would you cancel your subscription and (maybe) write a letter to the editors of the magazine telling them that you thought their magazine has turned into a worthless rag that you wouldnt even wipe your behind with? I think we both know the answer there.
You find it so easy to jump up and complain on the boards about how miserable your first day back after a year away from the game was because you couldnt kill a jedi... I would hope you couldnt kill a jedi on your first day back from the game. That wouldnt say much about the jedi's level of skill then would it? Why not come here asking information about how combat has changed so that your encounter with a mark would go better next time. Jedi can be killed. You just need to know what you're doing.
My issue with posts like this, is that they don't help anyone. You used to be able to come to these forums and learn about your profession and find useful information and get new ideas. Now its cluttered with posts like this, complaining but offering no suggestions. They're worthless.
I'm not saying you're not allowed to voice your opinion here. You can talk here all you want about whatever you want.. What i AM saying is that it is falling on 100% deaf ears no matter how many people on the BH boards or the eclipse boards say they agree with you. This post will change nothing about the game. And yes my "primitive philosophy" of dont like it dont pay for it, works great.. it always has and it always will. Companies will never fail to notice if their bad decisions end up costing them money. If they're making money off their product, they're obviously doing something right. Its sad but true that SOE is making money off of SWG from all of us paying for it. Even in the sorry state that this game may be in. Theyre turning a profit off of it daily, and its doing a lot better than EQ2 (i noticed that at no point in SWG's life did they offer to reduce the monthly fee for the game to $9.95 for new subscribers like they currently are doing in that game that was supposed to be SOOOOO much better than SWG). As long as people keep paying.. They'll run the game exactly the same way. You want your voice to be heard.. Speak with your credit card. Thats the only language that SOE understands..
If you're unhappy with the game dont tell the BH's or the Jedi, or the members of Eclipse if you want the game to change. Tell the people who actually made the game that the way it is. Don't bring it to the doorstep of people that have nothing to do with your poor experience.
Message Edited by JCWeeble on 07-13-2005 02:37 PM
Residual_Image wrote:
Actually, it was my first month back.
And perhaps you should follow your own brilliant philosophy, if you are so bothered by my post, and the post of others, you are welcome not to use the forums and read them. Problem solved?
Good day.
Anomaly
Oh.. First month back.. Sorry... Its a shame that jedi that are just people thatpay the same $15/month you doto have fun, infringed so much on your playstyle that you had to come here to complain about the number of them that there are...
I dont have to look at the forums... But I do.. You didnt have to complain here.. But you did... You wanna put up these long winded posts about there being too many jedi and i cant kill them, thus this game sucks, youre gonna get flamed for it.. Deal with it.
BH'sthat came to the forums to complain about not being able to killjedi are the reasons that they nerfed jedi healing in pub 19, and thecomplaininggenerated bythat nerf from the jediis a direct cause of the BH nerfs that are coming with Pub 20. This is what you people do when you complain. You get the cool professions in thisgame that some of us have played non stop for 2 years nerfed into oblivion to the point where it wont even matter what your class is anymore, they'll all suck..
So i say it again... If you dont like the game, don't pay for it and leave it alone for the rest of us.
Good day to you sir.
The kind of change which has occured over the course of SWG's timeline is merelythe devs throwing in the towel with trying to makesomething original
Tru dat, another problem the developers have is they would start out with a vision or a goal for the game but never stuck with it. They gave into the 14 year oldwhinersfrom the Jedi community. One day they would make a change for the sake of improving gameplay and/or balance, then months later they will completely revert it.
/agree
This game will prob die by xmas unless a fix is found. The way I see it, SOE will NEVER limit the number of jedi, nor will they institute any form of permadeath. So, the only way to deal with things is find a system of vis and punishment that actually results in jedi trying hard to avoid getting vis. This would then get rid of the starport duelers, and would restrict their impact on the GCW to a point that could be coped with. The end result being a universe others can enjoy too, and jedi having some remaing challenge once they have achieved full temp. If the FRS is brought back and has some sort of meaningful content to keep jedi happily occupied, that would also help clear the rest of the universe for others to enjoy.
My proposal is to have bounty payment directly proportional to vis, so the more vis you get, the higher your payout gets, with high end payouts having a BH grp option.
Also, jedi with negative xp get some sort of de-buff untill they get positive again. This combined with a working FRS should hopefully persuade jedi players that they should avoid gatting vis, whilst giving them something fun to do instead of fighting in Theed, etc. This last point is important, as jedi must have something useful and fun to do once they are full temp, cos otherwise they will get bored and everybody will quit the game, including jedi.
I hope something like this can be done to save the game.
Residual_Image wrote:Don't wish to turn this into a basketball flame with someone with a Jedi icon, I am interested in hearing the opinions (fair) from other BH.
that other guy seems to think that the You can just call the devs at home.
Honest opinion. I think your a true fan of Starwars. I think your Rite on the money with you thoughts. I also Would like tanks to post this to the Devs but we know the devs Dont have a clue Thunderchicken dont seem to pass alot of the Info on to them. Fan Fest was proof of this. "Its not in game?? I thought it was i coded it to be Before it went to stores???"
Residual_Image wrote:
Don't wish to turn this into a basketball flame with someone with a Jedi icon, I am interested in hearing the opinions (fair) from other BH.
Of course, everyone with a lightsaber picture in their avatar is a jedi... I forgot. I couldn't possibly be a BH with a lightsaber avatar.... How ignorant...
Whatever.. Get your "fair" opinions from other bh's all you want.. Wont change a thing about this game and you're still quitting so... Don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out.
/gg n00b. I'm done with you.
/gg n00b."
TheWeeble
JCWeeble wrote:
I explained my reasoning for why I wasposting to this thread at all in this paragraph here:
BH's that came to the forums to complain about not being able to kill jedi are the reasons that they nerfed jedi healing in pub 19, and the complaining generated by that nerf from the jedi is a direct cause of the BH nerfs that are coming with Pub 20. This is what you people do when you complain. You get the cool professions in this game that some of us have played non stop for 2 years nerfed into oblivion to the point where it wont even matter what your class is anymore, they'll all suck..
And your totally ignored what I had to say and decided to reply with this:
Residual_Image wrote:
Don't wish to turn this into a basketball flame with someone with a Jedi icon, I am interested in hearing the opinions (fair) from other BH.
That was both ignorant and assuming... But it also told me that I made a decent point.. Because you had nothing to say about it.. You also dont want "opinions" because i gave you an opinion, and because it doesnt agree with your flowery perception of where this game should be, you don't want to hear it. That obviously makes me a jedi because I don't agree with you and you're a BH.
You also said this:
I do not need to see a saber icon to assume you are a Jedi, your narrowdiscourse, and willingness to categorize things without any originalthought behind them are enough.
Well, you have just as narrow a discourse (anyone who doesnt agree with you MUST be "unfair"), and you are just as willing to categorize things without any original thought behind them (anyone who doesnt agree with you and MUST be a jedi), so maybe you're a jedi too.
I'll say it again.. so you can ignore it and call me a jedi all you want.. but the reality of this is, people who came to the forumsaround november and cried about the game and said how much better EQ2 and WoW are, and how they were going to QUIT because of it,are the same people we have to blame for the Post-CU game (Everquest Galaxies of Warcraft) as it is.
BH'swho complained that they were going to QUIT because jedi were too hard to kill and needed to be nerfed instead of learning how to cope with their healing led to the P19 jedi healing nerf. The crying from the jedi community (before the patch even went live) and saying they would QUIT if the patch went liveare exactly what set in motion the BH nerfs and terminal changes for P20.
So these little "I'm quitting, come pity me" posts do nothing but make the game WORSE for those of us who want to keep playing it. If you're leaving then leave. Don't contribute to the ruiningof this game on your way out. Nobody seems to see it, but I do. Posts like this are where nerfs come from.. Its a self-depricating cycle that does nothing but hurt the players of this game 3-6 months down the road...
Everytime someone posts up stuff like you're doing, it contributes to the decline of this game. You're not doing anything positive for the game by posting it, so leave if you're leaving... And do it quietly.
Message Edited by JCWeeble on 07-14-2005 03:11 PM
Didnt you say you were done with him in your last post? Obviously you have something to prove. Take your own advice, if you dont like the views in this thread or are tired of anti jedi threads, THEN DONT POST IN THEM. Dont read them.