Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Fighting a Master Defender
Daviepoo wrote:
First of all.... go do some workNow, how do you take down a master defender....Well as one of the goals of the cu (whether its working or not) is to make combat more like rock/paper/scissors, in that given template A, template B might be very effective against it, template C might be very poor, but good against template B. The same goes for defender.Its hard to be overpowered by a master defender (unless they have a very very good saber with mls) as they lack a lot of the other offensive & utility skills. The trick is to outlast them until they run out of force. Every attack they do, every time they heal.. it costs them force.
Well, that doesn't count for MLS / MDef / 3000 Healer / 0002 Enhancer.
I was fighting a jedi with that template for like 10 minutes, but we couldn't damage ourselfes enough. At the end he asked me why i even bother fighting him that long, i answered that i actualy wanted to wait till his force is empty... he just laughed, than he explained me that he had 100% force all the time because he channels every time when it gets lower.
2 failing to kill him, means you got outclassed.
Being a high template Jedi means little, if he can't use it.
Thassk wrote:
Isamu-alva wrote:
My main character is a rebel MBH / Mcarbs / CM 4000, I needed to delegate some faction to my alt (just went imp for a while to get the JSF mission) so I went over to anchorhead to go overt, shuttled back to my city, delegated the faction then hopped back on the shuttle to anchorhead to go on-leave.
Then the thing all overts dread happens, I hear the agro music starting up as I'm loading in at the shuttle, someone is trying to load kill me, quick as I could I called out for assistance using my alts PC while my main was still loading in. Finally I appeared, a full template dark jedi player was pounding on me, I healed up, downed some food and start fighing back. We are in the middle of anchorhead so not only am I hitting him so are all the rebel NPC's, I drag him into the NPC's cos he's got the advantage of first strike on me. I managed to land a KD so I used this time to get duelist stance macro running, healed up fully and started fighting back. 5 minutes later we are still fighting, my CM heals are keeping up with his damage, his force infusion is keeping up with my damage, he's blocking practically everything even with accuracy food. Then a guildmate of mine shows up after seeing my shout out in guildchat, I see him trying to go overt at the recruiter so I managed to snare the jedi and run over to my guildmate and group up (my guildmate is a rebel jedi master healer but not sure of the rest of his template off hand) he heals me up and we head back in. To cut a long story short we are at it for another 10 minutes at this guy and he's still not going down, we're trying to outlast him to wear down his force. Another 5 minutes go by and by now I'm getting a bit bored, my guildmate is getting annoyed cos he seems to be doing no damage even though he is full temp, his words were "He's master Def, I cant even scratch him" everytime we get this guy down he heals right back up again. We eventually called a retreat, managed to snare him while we split up and hopped onto speeders and got away.
So the point of this post is, what on earth are we supposed to do against a master defender? Solo I could handled him but only cos I have CM, we could have gone on all night just healing up after we did any damage, the fact that even another jedi helping me couldnt bring him down is just ridiculous.
Any tips for when I meet this guy again?
you think thats bad? lol ... you didnt even get to the fun stuff ... soon as you would have gotten his health down to 0 ... he could have started an avoid incapp stack ... ( jedi can fight at 0 health for a looong time .. as loong as the amount of holocrons they got in their invetory)
there is no doubt in my mindcertain jedi templates need to be toned down ... its ridiculous for the GCW ... if his friends were on the way you guys would have been toast..
all i can recommend is looking into master combat medic for the debuffs and dots
You have no idea what you talk about.
Avoid Incap lasts 30 seconds, and takes almost 1/6th of the total force pool.
If you know how to play, you would be rejoicing when the AI gets turned on.
Every time, I've been forced to use AI (pre and post-nerf) I have lost.
EfreaK wrote:
I'm a Master Defender.
What he did to you, is not from a uber Defender tree, he played brilliantly.
2 failing to kill him, means you got outclassed.
Valor + Aura + Pikatta and running some states on you two.
Being a high template Jedi means little, if he can't use it.
You probably brought in a battery for him to drain.
Next time bring in another shooter, and keep at distance.
...Message Edited by Thassk on 07-12-2005 05:12 AM
EfreaK wrote:
Dont know howmany times I've been loadkilled by non-jedi.
We're not the only badguys.
There's alot of undeserved Jedi hate floating around in this game.
You can almost call it FOTM, to resent Jedi.
ya fine ...both sides do it, but i understand morewhy aBH would do it as opposed to a full termplate master defender( ive never done this to date but if i did im the type that would admit it was cheap as all heck ).... try hunting a jedisometime and youll see too why youd understand more if a BH used the cheap tactic....
but the thing is .. you called the guy brillaint for doing it ... you think any irritation a non-jedi would feel towards that statement is undeserved?
stacking block %'s ? whatever its part of the game. i cant say anything agaisnt it...i think its overpowered, you may think not ...
you say you lose with avoid incapp all the time ... avoid incapp only comes out once you would have lost to begin with, hence avoid incapp....but in a closed space ( indoors) with a stacked ai macro ( popping holos to keep force up) even with the new snare it can mean death for BH .. and it just plain stinks to loose to a jedi whoif you managed to get him downto 0 health keeps fighting and murders you while he has no red in his bar whatsoever... one on one this abilityin my opinion just doesnt belong in the game... its an ability to help a jedi agaisnt a gank squad
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-12-2005 05:46 AM
Thassk wrote:
EfreaK wrote:
Dont know howmany times I've been loadkilled by non-jedi.
We're not the only badguys.
There's alot of undeserved Jedi hate floating around in this game.
You can almost call it FOTM, to resent Jedi.
ya fine ...both sides do it, but i understand morewhy aBH would do it as opposed to a full termplate master defender( ive never done this to date but if i did im the type that would admit it was cheap as all heck ).... try hunting a jedisometime and youll see too why youd understand more if a BH used the cheap tactic....
but the thing is .. you called the guy brillaint for doing it ... you think any irritation a non-jedi would feel towards that statement is undeserved?
stacking block %'s ? whatever its part of the game. i cant say anything agaisnt it...i think its overpowered, you may think not ...
you say you lose with avoid incapp all the time ... avoid incapp only comes out once you would have lost to begin with, hence avoid incapp....but in a closed space ( indoors) with a stacked ai macro ( popping holos to keep force up) even with the new snare it can mean death for BH .. and it just plain stinks to loose to a jedi whoif you managed to get him downto 0 health keeps fighting and murders you while he has no red in his bar whatsoever... one on one this abilityin my opinion just doesnt belong in the game... its an ability to help a jedi agaisnt a gank squad
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-12-2005 05:46 AM
Daviepoo wrote:
First of all.... go do some work
Now, how do you take down a master defender....
Well as one of the goals of the cu (whether its working or not) is to make combat more like rock/paper/scissors, in that given template A, template B might be very effective against it, template C might be very poor, but good against template B. The same goes for defender.
Its hard to be overpowered by a master defender (unless they have a very very good saber with mls) as they lack a lot of the other offensive & utility skills. The trick is to outlast them until they run out of force. Every attack they do, every time they heal.. it costs them force.
1) Kite them - using snares/roots. Keep them out of range and do a little constant damage. If they can't hit you back... they will end up having to heal a lot more than you reducing their force.
2) Apply states. Dizzy reduces defences. Blind reduces offence. Stun is supposed to stop action regen. Getting a few states on first might allow you to do that little bit more damage.. again making them heal more.
3) Dots. Again it adds the need of the jedi to heal. It might not be a lot of healing, but each one counts.
Not all BH templates will have these skills available, and if they did, it wouldn't be as effective against a high offensive output jedi template as in the original plan for the cu, but you can take down master defenders. Yes it make take 30-60 minutes. Yes it might ruin your armour, its more of a battle of attrition than anything - it will be slow & boring and it will come down to who can last the longest.
Message Edited by Daviepoo on 07-12-2005 02:53 AM
Good adivce in the above post.
EfreaK wrote:I'm a Master Defender.What he did to you, is not from a uber Defender tree, he played brilliantly.
2 failing to kill him, means you got outclassed.Valor + Aura + Pikatta and running some states on you two.
Being a high template Jedi means little, if he can't use it.You probably brought in a battery for him to drain.Next time bring in another shooter, and keep at distance.
As I said earlier, my plan wasnt to kill him, my plan was to avoid getting load killed at the shuttleport in anchorhead.
I tried to bring in another shooter but because of the time zone I play in (GMT, I think US would just about be getting ready to go on after work) the only other non-crafter guildmate that was online was one of our jedi (also from the UK).
And he didnt outclass us, if that was the case he wouldve had me before I finished loading in, the fact that I lasted a good 5 minutes before the other jedi arrived (actually 6 minutes cos u have 2 30 second waits to go overt) after being beaten down to almost 1/5 health before I even got a chance to control my character means I outclassed him in that respect. You cant prepare for a fight if you're not expecting one, if I was a jedi and the shoe was on the other foot I wouldve just FR away but as a BH I have no choice but to fight back, the other jedi was distraction so we could get away, It wouldve been nice to win but we didn't.
I'm not calling nerf cos I think that's already on the cards for master def soon anyway, I'm just looking for viable emergency tactics to win in a situation like this where there is no other guildmate jedi to help me.
)
Thassk wrote:
Isamu-alva wrote:
My main character is a rebel MBH / Mcarbs / CM 4000, I needed to delegate some faction to my alt (just went imp for a while to get the JSF mission) so I went over to anchorhead to go overt, shuttled back to my city, delegated the faction then hopped back on the shuttle to anchorhead to go on-leave.
Then the thing all overts dread happens, I hear the agro music starting up as I'm loading in at the shuttle, someone is trying to load kill me, quick as I could I called out for assistance using my alts PC while my main was still loading in. Finally I appeared, a full template dark jedi player was pounding on me, I healed up, downed some food and start fighing back. We are in the middle of anchorhead so not only am I hitting him so are all the rebel NPC's, I drag him into the NPC's cos he's got the advantage of first strike on me. I managed to land a KD so I used this time to get duelist stance macro running, healed up fully and started fighting back. 5 minutes later we are still fighting, my CM heals are keeping up with his damage, his force infusion is keeping up with my damage, he's blocking practically everything even with accuracy food. Then a guildmate of mine shows up after seeing my shout out in guildchat, I see him trying to go overt at the recruiter so I managed to snare the jedi and run over to my guildmate and group up (my guildmate is a rebel jedi master healer but not sure of the rest of his template off hand) he heals me up and we head back in. To cut a long story short we are at it for another 10 minutes at this guy and he's still not going down, we're trying to outlast him to wear down his force. Another 5 minutes go by and by now I'm getting a bit bored, my guildmate is getting annoyed cos he seems to be doing no damage even though he is full temp, his words were "He's master Def, I cant even scratch him" everytime we get this guy down he heals right back up again. We eventually called a retreat, managed to snare him while we split up and hopped onto speeders and got away.
So the point of this post is, what on earth are we supposed to do against a master defender? Solo I could handled him but only cos I have CM, we could have gone on all night just healing up after we did any damage, the fact that even another jedi helping me couldnt bring him down is just ridiculous.
Any tips for when I meet this guy again?
you think thats bad? lol ... you didnt even get to the fun stuff ... soon as you would have gotten his health down to 0 ... he could have started an avoid incapp stack ... ( jedi can fight at 0 health for a looong time .. as loong as the amount of holocrons they got in their invetory)
there is no doubt in my mindcertain jedi templates need to be toned down ... its ridiculous for the GCW ... if his friends were on the way you guys would have been toast..
all i can recommend is looking into master combat medic for the debuffs and dots
mm Jedi can only use one Holocron every 23 Hours.