Bounty Hunter Archive

Let them nerf us down to a "normal" profession. People will quit playing Jedi and we'll be removed from the BH terminals. I don't give a rat's patoot about being uber. The only time my relative strength against a normal profession ever ever ever ever concerns me is when someone's trying to take my hard-earned exp away.Take away the BH's, and I'd be just as happy if they knock the numbers on Jedi abilities down to a normal profession.

You want Jedi brought down to a normal profession? Ok, that's spiffy. They'll have to take away BH missions too. I"m cool with that. I assume the rest of you are too.

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Eleutherios wrote:

4) Yes, BH offers potentially cash more per hit than any other profession, but it's not just "Take a mission, I WIN, get money, take a mission, I WIN, get money." Despite what you Jedi might think, you actually have to hunt the guy down, and hope he doesn't log before you get there, or go into space, or go to Kashyyk, or hide in a house, etc... plus, I don't think any BH wants to willfully take missions on Kashyyk. It's possible to find them, but extremely time consuming... and then how does your money argument stand up? If you divide the cost by the time, the BH could have made more money just taking missions from a standard terminal.

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Are you really trying to say that a 100k mission is not a bigger money maker that 8k missions? Do you really expect everyone here to believe that you make less money doing BH missions then if you were doing faction missions? If you hunt NPC's you will make 4-5x what any other combat class doing missions will make.

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Eleutherios wrote:

"You want Jedi brought down to a normal profession? Ok, that's spiffy. They'll have to take away BH missions too. I"m cool with that. I assume the rest of you are too."

The problem with Jedi right now is that, although they're claiming they're 1 on 1, they're still stronger -- full template Jedi vs. full template Normal, and the Jedi would win.Until they're ACTUALLY 1v1, BH missions would stay. They're just complaining now because they're less uber than before, and it seems as if they're 1v1 because their "I WIN" button is going to be re-tweaked.

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I don't care about claims.

Nuke fully templated Jedi to 1.0.

Keep the exp costs and gains.

Remove BH missions.

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FernGully wrote:
I find it sorta funny that you all seem to be assuming that a player has to be either a Jedi, or a Bounty Hunter, but can't have multiple characters and be both. I also find it sad that you'd assume I'm making an arguement to have Jedi remain more powerful when I've stated twice now (once in the opening paragraph of the original thread) that I'm not.

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Not the impression I got, but I see the points you are trying tomake now that you have elaberated a bit. I personally think this will weed out (1) the powerful PvP Jedi out there (2) The PvE guys that will for the most part go into hiding (3) Those who figure out Jedi isn't for them. I think additionally they will make the grind a little easier with respect to making the profession more balanced with the others. I think this will mean good things in the future, not being bias or wanting to just "pwn" jedi all day. This will also make knight more apealing once they bring FRS back. I think the should have a sort of FRS for every profession, would love to work my way up the TKRS

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Eleutherios wrote:

We're not the Alpha class.

1) The reason Jedi are becoming weaker is that there are so many. It would destroy the game to let an Alpha class be so powerful and so large.

2) BH does NOT offer better specials than other professions -- I would take Rifleman or Carbineer specials over BH specials any day. The only good one is Advanced Crit, the rest are inferior to ones found in other professions, and some just don't work (Confusion Shot, for one.) The skill mods are only good because they're General skill mods, since BH is a hybrid profession and not a specialist like Carbineer.

3) The best weapons are not available only to BHs. BHs have a few certs, like the Scatter Pistols, Proton Carbine and LLC (soon to include the new cannon.) These are certainly not the "best" weapons in SWG -- what about T-21s with a MRifleman cert? Those do over 1000 damage unsliced, unpupped, and can do it from 65m. Or what about E11 Mark II carbines? Those can also do over 1000 damage with a fairly low SAC and speed -- but that's an MCarbineer cert.

4) Yes, BH offers potentially cash more per hit than any other profession, but it's not just "Take a mission, I WIN, get money, take a mission, I WIN, get money." Despite what you Jedi might think, you actually have to hunt the guy down, and hope he doesn't log before you get there, or go into space, or go to Kashyyk, or hide in a house, etc... plus, I don't think any BH wants to willfully take missions on Kashyyk. It's possible to find them, but extremely time consuming... and then how does your money argument stand up? If you divide the cost by the time, the BH could have made more money just taking missions from a standard terminal.

5) "Unlike with previous end game content in SWG, tho, Bounty Hunters today get something that the previous end game content has never truely had: impunity. There is no added risk to be a bounty hunter, or to enjoy the fruits of the profession." There's no risk to being a Jedi -- as long as you grind solo. I know you Jedi like to pretend that it's ABSOUTLEUYTL IMPSPSIBLE !!! O11 O!NE to grind solo, but it certainly is possible. If you don't like it, don't become a Jedi, because that's what you KNEW YOU WERE IN FOR from day one. And yet you still grind in a group, so you'll get what's coming from increased vis.

Anyway, like someone else said, there are the Jedi forums. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Thanks for at least bothering to read and respond to the post's content.

1) The reason why Jedi are being weaker is not in the scope of this post. I don't much care about that, and I'm not arguing it. God knows enough other threads are out there which discuss this ad nauseam. What I'm posting about is "What is the state of things when that does happen?"

2) BH has some pretty good specials. Duelist, Adv Crit, and Underhand are pretty spiffy. Throw in the mods that exist in the profession, which make you GREAT with any ranged weapon, and I think its a pretty great profession. When I was tinkering with my build, I decided that I wanted to be pistol-centric (always loved pistols) and wanted to be master smuggler so I could enjoy any new Smugg content that comes down the pipe. With master smuggler, I had a choice. I could either be Master Pistols, or MBH, and dabble in the other. When I worked out the numbers on accuracy, defense, weap speed, specials, and weapons certs, I was amazed to find that I was actually in BETTER shape by taking MBH/MSmug and just dabbling in pistols to get the specials I really wanted.

3) Scatter pistols, proton carbs, and the new Heavy Lightning Rifle are undeniably among the best weapons in the game. Consider that the proton carb and HLR will benefit from elemental damage, and I think it becomes pretty obvious that they are AMONG the best.

4) I don't care how difficult or easy it is to get the cash. The simple fact that its offered is more than any other combat profession can boast. As for Kashyyk, well, I see BH there all the time, and I've seen posts here from BH who claim that they actually do enjoy it.

5) Lets talk about relative risk. Jedi have, over the course of their existance, had far more relative risk in playing their characters than any other player class. That remains true today, tho less so than it has in the past.

These are my forums as much as yours.

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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Eleutherios wrote:

"You want Jedi brought down to a normal profession? Ok, that's spiffy. They'll have to take away BH missions too. I"m cool with that. I assume the rest of you are too."

The problem with Jedi right now is that, although they're claiming they're 1 on 1, they're still stronger -- full template Jedi vs. full template Normal, and the Jedi would win.Until they're ACTUALLY 1v1, BH missions would stay. They're just complaining now because they're less uber than before, and it seems as if they're 1v1 because their "I WIN" button is going to be re-tweaked.

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I don't care about claims.

Nuke fully templated Jedi to 1.0.

Keep the exp costs and gains.

Remove BH missions.

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Shouldn't take the hunting away, I could see the BH on BH missions now and make the Jedi xp loss less if not just none at all andthrow smuggler in the mix. This whole puzzle is starting to look like it will come together nicely.

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iijin wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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Eleutherios wrote:

"You want Jedi brought down to a normal profession? Ok, that's spiffy. They'll have to take away BH missions too. I"m cool with that. I assume the rest of you are too."

The problem with Jedi right now is that, although they're claiming they're 1 on 1, they're still stronger -- full template Jedi vs. full template Normal, and the Jedi would win.Until they're ACTUALLY 1v1, BH missions would stay. They're just complaining now because they're less uber than before, and it seems as if they're 1v1 because their "I WIN" button is going to be re-tweaked.

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I don't care about claims.

Nuke fully templated Jedi to 1.0.

Keep the exp costs and gains.

Remove BH missions.

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Shouldn't take the hunting away, I could see the BH on BH missions now and make the Jedi xp loss less if not just none at all andthrow smuggler in the mix. This whole puzzle is starting to look like it will come together nicely.

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It's no longer justified for Jedi to lose exp to a balanced, if not overpowered opponent.

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Tucheck wrote:
I read half of your post....and it dawned on me....

You had little to no problem being the ""alpha class", or "end game" content of SWG" for almost a year and a half now. Sure the Jedi profession has had issues, but it has also always been the strongest (fully templated, double Mastery) profession in the game.

Now that the population of Jedi is forcing....YES forcing, them to be "brought in line" with the rest of the player base, you act as though it's the end of the world because YOU don't consider yourself to "be the best".

All I have to say is this...

You know the saying, "If it was easy, everybody would do it"? Well that's what being a Jedi came down to...any easy to use profession. I'm NOT saying the path to Jedi isn't long, I'm just saying it isn't that hard. Many Jedi like to justify their strength with the virtual "hell" they go through to achieve a Jedi character. Well given the fact that many Jedi over in the Jedi forums like to act as if they will quit the game becuase of these changes, and if they do quit, this will KILL the game....that tells me that the number of Jedi currently playing the game has grown too large to maintain the strength of an "alpha class".

I have Mastered the Scout profession if that tells you anything. I, and SOME others, are STILL here. Through all the percieved hate of non-Jedi and favortism OF Jedi, over ALL other professions, we have NEVER dropped the MBH title. Did we know something you did not? No. We held onto hope (at least I did) that for every Jedi that exploited their way to "Knight" status, passed my effort to keep them Padawans, they would only server as a means to "fix" the Jedi profession.

It's not as bad as you think...

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If you actually had read half the post, you'd have seen the last sentence in the first paragraph regarding making Jedi 1:1.

Oh and for the record...I had my MBH title before there were Jedi to hunt, much less a Jedi bounty system to hunt them with.

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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iijin wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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Eleutherios wrote:

"You want Jedi brought down to a normal profession? Ok, that's spiffy. They'll have to take away BH missions too. I"m cool with that. I assume the rest of you are too."

The problem with Jedi right now is that, although they're claiming they're 1 on 1, they're still stronger -- full template Jedi vs. full template Normal, and the Jedi would win.Until they're ACTUALLY 1v1, BH missions would stay. They're just complaining now because they're less uber than before, and it seems as if they're 1v1 because their "I WIN" button is going to be re-tweaked.

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I don't care about claims.

Nuke fully templated Jedi to 1.0.

Keep the exp costs and gains.

Remove BH missions.

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Shouldn't take the hunting away, I could see the BH on BH missions now and make the Jedi xp loss less if not just none at all andthrow smuggler in the mix. This whole puzzle is starting to look like it will come together nicely.

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It's no longer justified for Jedi to lose exp to a balanced, if not overpowered opponent.

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I dont think we will be overpowered, infact post 19 I dont think we will be balanced. I think that Ferngully hit the nail on the head when he said:

"But the upcoming pub isn't really my point. My point is that if you look at whats been happening over the last year, and the last couple publishes in particular, you see a downward trend in the relative power of Jedi. Based on whats been happening, I believe Jedi are going to be 1:1 eventually. It seems to me that the plan is to do it gradually, to make the transition easier for Jedi players to accept (a sudden "you're all equal now" announcement would cause lots of people to jump ship). So, no, it may not be all in this pub. But I believe its on the way. "

Message Edited by iijin on 06-22-2005 11:44 AM

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iijin wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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iijin wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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Eleutherios wrote:

"You want Jedi brought down to a normal profession? Ok, that's spiffy. They'll have to take away BH missions too. I"m cool with that. I assume the rest of you are too."

The problem with Jedi right now is that, although they're claiming they're 1 on 1, they're still stronger -- full template Jedi vs. full template Normal, and the Jedi would win.Until they're ACTUALLY 1v1, BH missions would stay. They're just complaining now because they're less uber than before, and it seems as if they're 1v1 because their "I WIN" button is going to be re-tweaked.

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I don't care about claims.

Nuke fully templated Jedi to 1.0.

Keep the exp costs and gains.

Remove BH missions.

---

Shouldn't take the hunting away, I could see the BH on BH missions now and make the Jedi xp loss less if not just none at all andthrow smuggler in the mix. This whole puzzle is starting to look like it will come together nicely.

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It's no longer justified for Jedi to lose exp to a balanced, if not overpowered opponent.

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I dont think we will be overpowered, infact post 19 I dont think we will be balanced. I think that Ferngully hit the nail on the head when he said:

"But the upcoming pub isn't really my point. My point is that if you look at whats been happening over the last year, and the last couple publishes in particular, you see a downward trend in the relative power of Jedi. Based on whats been happening, I believe Jedi are going to be 1:1 eventually. It seems to me that the plan is to do it gradually, to make the transition easier for Jedi players to accept (a sudden "you're all equal now" announcement would cause lots of people to jump ship). So, no, it may not be all in this pub. But I believe its on the way. "

Keeping in mind that only time will tell, I think you are right if it ends at 1:1 Jedi vs Other combat professions then there should be no xp loss, only thing that worries me about this is people will start duping credits by pairing up and killing the jedi over and over since there is no penalty.

Message Edited by iijin on 06-22-2005 11:44 AM

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Maybe not overpowered. Maybe so.

If Jedi end up 1:1, and I'm totally cool with that, exp loss will need to be removed. With exp loss removed, payouts will have to be dropped to the point where it costs as much, if not more-in terms of time, money for droids, money for foods-than you make. At that point missions should just be removed. It's better to take out a bad, unused system than to leave it in place. Because it will be farmed for cash. Additionally first-strike will go. Jedi don't have the advantage in power, so first-strike will be overpowered.

I'm absolutely, 100%, dead-on, honest-abe, serious-as-a-heart-attack good with that.

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Eleutherios wrote:

1) ...but by doing that, you're instantly supposing that it WILL happen that way. This needs to be discussed, if you're going to suppose it so quickly.

2) Underhand fails quite a bit. Duelist Stance never did much, although they're working with it in Pub 19, so we'll have to see how that goes. Advanced Crit is the only really good shot, but that's topped by several other professions. As I said, BH is supposed to have general mods -- it's a hybrid prof. Also, your comparison between MBH/Pistoleer and the like is somewhat inaccurate -- Smuggler also has crafting trees.

3) OK, they're among the best. But EVERY COMBAT PROFESSION has guns that are "among the best". I fail to see why this is any different between other profs.

4) So you don't care or understand the principle of difficulty scaling to payout? You don't understand why, say, a Level 200 DJM would drop an uber-wound pack, but not a Level 20 stormtrooper NPC?

5) Of COURSE they have more risk, they should. Their class is being actively hunted and destroyed, because people believe them to be the destroyers of the republic. Being an alpha class is supposed to be risky, although you've already supposed in #1 that Jedi are not the Alpha class anymore, but they still are.

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1) Arguing that it will or won't happen is completely different than arguing about whether it should or shouldn't happen. Either way, its my post, and my hypothetical

2) Well, I dunno what to say. If you don't like duelist, and you don't think that adv cit is an incredible high dmg non-warm-up special, and you're not impressed that the mods in the BH tree actually can improve not only your defenses and accuracy, but can actually increase your abilities with your chosen weapon, then I dunno much what would impress you.

3) just another straw on the pile.

4) I understand difficulty to payout very well. What I'm saying is that no other profession is offered a game-system payout that high. The fact that BH are offered high difficulty, high payout missions is a sort of proof in itself that they are setting themselves apart from the rest of the playerbase.

5) Again, not arguing what "should" be, or what's "right or wrong". Just analysing the state of things. And the state of things is that bounty hunting , and being a bounty hunter, carries no risk to it over and above any risk that any other player carries.