Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Non-Bounty Hunter kill issues?
AzzirithNicia wrote:
Pyskow wrote:
....lol...year, cry more nerf on the Jedis....XP loss to the BH, or the jedi gets the money if the BH loses, would make it more attarctive for the jedi to saty and fight
I'm sick and tired of hearing that... "BH get no risk for their reward wah wah..."
Sorry, but a Jedi's reward is the fact that they are Jedi, at least 1.5 times stronger than a normal person. They need no more reward for that. Back in the day, theyhad to worry about perma-death (intelligently removed in my opinion) not to mention saber/power tef's, xp loss (or whatever was associated as such) for every single death they came upon, and even group members gave them vis. If you don't like the plush system you have now, you shoulda tried it before.
/say sarcastically
No its the BHs fault they wanted to become jedi 
DoctorFett wrote:
heres my idea. Get rid of XP loss totally. BUT. If the jedi intetionally kills himself i.e the example above thats when the jedi will lose double the xp. This will encourage the jedi to run, which will make the hunt so much more enjoyable. But the TEF will on the jedi will negate the ability for both BH and Jedi to enter any private structure. But since the TEF will be put on the jedi it will automatically update u on the jedi location that way so BHs dont have to continue to use arakyd probe droids. This will mean Space battles if the jedi decides to stay in space.
Programs are governed by rules. Aside from advanced algorhythmic statements IF, THEN, AND, OR are about as complex as it gets.
That being a given....
You have a list of variables. There are lists and tables of possible outcomes to the variable combinations. The system looks at all of them and makes a logical decision. Logical errors are what cause bugs. The system cannot come up with a logical law to define what just occured and rather than crashing the system it allows the event as an anomoly.
To write a statement that could possibly interpret a player's infinite number of choices and reactions to a give set of variables would be an exercise in futility. There are just TOO many things to consider. For example:
The system is notified that Player X just jumped into the lava and was killed. The system would then have to figure out why that happend. It would not be able to come up with a 100% positive answer because of the rules of the governing programming.It would most likely crash or at the very least cause a massive lag spike while trying to figure out a solution to the "problem" of player X jumping into the lava, if FORCED to give a 100% positive answer. Hence, Player X is allowed to jump into the lava, to no penalty.
That's the programming answer.
In terms of the real world answer.... If I am a Jedi and a Bounty Hunter attacks me and I inadvertantly fall into the lava/attacked by mobsand die, my logic tells me that the Bounty Hunter did not deathblow me, so there should be no penalty. It's an unfortunate outcome to us hunters, give the game's current state.
The system law would need to change from it's current state: A deathblow or killing shot (triple incap)by a BH with an active TEF on a Jedi results in Jedi experience loss, BH contract completion.
To: Any deathblow or killing shot (triple incap) with an active BH TEF on a Jedi results in Jedi experience loss, BH contract completition.
But is that fair? Gets confusing.......
? (not the 1 min and one guy is dead type). so an 8.5 mill setup (not including wastedAAs)... taking into account of making 4 mil... would set yo in the hole 4.5 mil.it would take much longer for me to get back the amount of credits for a new suit than to grind 400kXP. loot from BH missions? sometimes it takes 30+ missions to yeild something decent enough ot sell for any worth while amount. 30missions X avg. 20 min per =10 hours. a Jedi, only needing 1 ADK on a saber,could grind out 400k XP in alittle over an hour in a decent group. so if you split it up by deafeated Jedi (10), one could argue that on each side it would take about 1 hour to get past the effects of a loss (on average). basically, the better you are in the BH vs Jedi confrontations will have you wasting less time in the game b/c the loss on both sides is reletively the same.
bmill wrote:
DoctorFett wrote:
heres my idea. Get rid of XP loss totally. BUT. If the jedi intetionally kills himself i.e the example above thats when the jedi will lose double the xp. This will encourage the jedi to run, which will make the hunt so much more enjoyable. But the TEF will on the jedi will negate the ability for both BH and Jedi to enter any private structure. But since the TEF will be put on the jedi it will automatically update u on the jedi location that way so BHs dont have to continue to use arakyd probe droids. This will mean Space battles if the jedi decides to stay in space.
Programs are governed by rules. Aside from advanced algorhythmic statements IF, THEN, AND, OR are about as complex as it gets.
That being a given....
You have a list of variables. There are lists and tables of possible outcomes to the variable combinations. The system looks at all of them and makes a logical decision. Logical errors are what cause bugs. The system cannot come up with a logical law to define what just occured and rather than crashing the system it allows the event as an anomoly.
To write a statement that could possibly interpret a player's infinite number of choices and reactions to a give set of variables would be an exercise in futility. There are just TOO many things to consider. For example:
The system is notified that Player X just jumped into the lava and was killed. The system would then have to figure out why that happend. It would not be able to come up with a 100% positive answer because of the rules of the governing programming.It would most likely crash or at the very least cause a massive lag spike while trying to figure out a solution to the "problem" of player X jumping into the lava, if FORCED to give a 100% positive answer. Hence, Player X is allowed to jump into the lava, to no penalty.
That's the programming answer.
In terms of the real world answer.... If I am a Jedi and a Bounty Hunter attacks me and I inadvertantly fall into the lava/attacked by mobsand die, my logic tells me that the Bounty Hunter did not deathblow me, so there should be no penalty. It's an unfortunate outcome to us hunters, give the game's current state.
The system law would need to change from it's current state: A deathblow or killing shot (triple incap)by a BH with an active TEF on a Jedi results in Jedi experience loss, BH contract completion.
To: Any deathblow or killing shot (triple incap) with an active BH TEF on a Jedi results in Jedi experience loss, BH contract completition.
But is that fair? Gets confusing.......
bmill wrote:
DoctorFett wrote:
heres my idea. Get rid of XP loss totally. BUT. If the jedi intetionally kills himself i.e the example above thats when the jedi will lose double the xp. This will encourage the jedi to run, which will make the hunt so much more enjoyable. But the TEF will on the jedi will negate the ability for both BH and Jedi to enter any private structure. But since the TEF will be put on the jedi it will automatically update u on the jedi location that way so BHs dont have to continue to use arakyd probe droids. This will mean Space battles if the jedi decides to stay in space.
Programs are governed by rules. Aside from advanced algorhythmic statements IF, THEN, AND, OR are about as complex as it gets.
That being a given....
You have a list of variables. There are lists and tables of possible outcomes to the variable combinations. The system looks at all of them and makes a logical decision. Logical errors are what cause bugs. The system cannot come up with a logical law to define what just occured and rather than crashing the system it allows the event as an anomoly.
To write a statement that could possibly interpret a player's infinite number of choices and reactions to a give set of variables would be an exercise in futility. There are just TOO many things to consider. For example:
The system is notified that Player X just jumped into the lava and was killed. The system would then have to figure out why that happend. It would not be able to come up with a 100% positive answer because of the rules of the governing programming.It would most likely crash or at the very least cause a massive lag spike while trying to figure out a solution to the "problem" of player X jumping into the lava, if FORCED to give a 100% positive answer. Hence, Player X is allowed to jump into the lava, to no penalty.
That's the programming answer.
In terms of the real world answer.... If I am a Jedi and a Bounty Hunter attacks me and I inadvertantly fall into the lava/attacked by mobsand die, my logic tells me that the Bounty Hunter did not deathblow me, so there should be no penalty. It's an unfortunate outcome to us hunters, give the game's current state.
The system law would need to change from it's current state: A deathblow or killing shot (triple incap)by a BH with an active TEF on a Jedi results in Jedi experience loss, BH contract completion.
To: Any deathblow or killing shot (triple incap) with an active BH TEF on a Jedi results in Jedi experience loss, BH contract completition.
But is that fair? Gets confusing.......
You see that occured to me as soon as I posted that thread, I didnt think anyone would relize it though. Your intellegence intreges me..........But still dosent it state that you have been slain by so and so. So to reiterate hers how it will go everything I said will stay, but the tef will be recored and monitered by the csr, so he/she could moniter the fight. And if that does occur the player that intentionally killed his/herself will lose double the xp. Now this seems crazy but I have yet another idea. A special TEF called a BTEF ( bounty tempory enemy flag) this will make it so that only the BH and only BH can kill the target, and the same goes for the jedi, only he/she can kill the Bh, no help from anything. But this will negate everything I just said about the DEVs monitoring duels. Wow I kinda trailed off there didnt I. Here tell me which one sounds better to you.
Actually I expect the whole PB system to disappear soon (risk>reward and growing ever more out of balance), but, if you want my answer.
Institute what you want, it'll just cause Jedi to suicide after their marker (non-jedi bud or bot)notes a blue dot 200m out.
What are you going to do then? *Expletive* because they have friends warning them about you?
bmill wrote:
While fighting with Jedi, all of us have probably had one of the following happen:
1. Mob kills the mark
2. Jedi's friend in an active duel kills the Jedi before the hunter does
3. Jedi purposely killsthemself - ie, running into mobs or soon lava.
All 3 of these situations result in the Jedi avoiding a bounty hunter death. My question is this: Should the system change so that ANY death after/while a BH TEF is applied be considered a death at the hands of the bounty hunter?
I say yes, and because:
1. Mob kills the mark - Jedi through stupidity runs into a krayt dragon....
This would also open the possibility that a Bounty Hunter's friend could "drag" mobs onto the Jedi, a bannable offense.
2. Jedi's friend in an active duel kills the Jedi before the hunter does - This is a known issue, and has had much debate
3. Jedi purposely kills themself - ie, running into mobs, or soon lava - This now is and will become an increasing issue with the release of ToOW. Currently, any Jedi can be killed, on purpose, by mobs to avoid a BH death through triple incapping and be safely whisked away from a hunter, and then log off to avoid a BH death, experience loss, etc.
So the question stands to the BH's.... is this an issue that is currenlty "on the books" so to speak?
EvilAztec wrote:
after their marker (non-jedi bud or bot)notes a blue dot 200m out.
Message Edited by -Sene- on 10-18-2005 04:51 PM
DoctorFett wrote:
You see that occured to me as soon as I posted that thread, I didnt think anyone would relize it though. Your intellegence intreges me..........But still dosent it state that you have been slain by so and so. So to reiterate hers how it will go everything I said will stay, but the tef will be recored and monitered by the csr, so he/she could moniter the fight. And if that does occur the player that intentionally killed his/herself will lose double the xp. Now this seems crazy but I have yet another idea. A special TEF called a BTEF ( bounty tempory enemy flag) this will make it so that only the BH and only BH can kill the target, and the same goes for the jedi, only he/she can kill the Bh, no help from anything. But this will negate everything I just said about the DEVs monitoring duels. Wow I kinda trailed off there didnt I. Here tell me which one sounds better to you.
When a bounty hunter kills you the system generates the message "you have been slain by so and so.... " and then the system debits your experience.
When you are killed by a mob, you get a similar message "You have been slain by Feral Bantha...." but there is obviously no experience debit.
The 2 ideas you have are interesting. Firstly the bit about the CSR reviewing "questionable" deaths. I think it's probably the "best" alternative to the issue at hand, however it's not realistically feasible. From a probability standpoint, say there are 100 BH vs Jedi engagements on a given day on a server. How many of those engagements result in the Jedi's death? Let's say the hunters are good that day, and it's 75%. So 75 Jedi have died during the course of a 24 hours server-up period. Out of that 75 that died, how many were at the direct hands (deathblow or killingshot) from the Bounty Hunter? We'll say roughly 75% of those deaths were direct Bounty Hunter kills and 25% were not.
So.... we have 25% or 19 (18.75) deaths while a Jedi was TEF'd but at the hands of the "environment." A CSR would have to review each of those deaths, as recorded by the system. Everything is already recorded by the system, so pulling the logs would not be difficult. Still... the "work-day" has 3 shifts. Say those deaths were spread out evenly over 24 hours. That's one "questionable" death every 1.23 hours.
Logistically.... if you figure that a CSR can govern 3 servers, of which there are close to 30. That's30 new CSRs that will need to be hired just to handle this issue. You'd have to make it worth their while to be there also, so that's 30 people + about 30k in salaries or $900,000 a year in "support" just for Jedi vs BH engagements.
If we were to use the above model, I would envision a system where ANY death from either BH or environment WHILE the BH TEF is active results in experience loss. ONLY "qualifying" deaths that are "ticked" by the Jedi would be reviewed. Thus bringing the number down to possibly 3 new CSRs needed to handle the problems.
Scenario #2 Special BTEF
Probably the "best" alternative given the issue. This is already somewhat in place where TEF'd Jedi nor Bounty Hunters may receive "help" in the form of healing from outside infulences during the TEF period. The code change would negate any direct or indirect infulence from ANYTHING outside the BH vs Jedi engagement during the TEF period.
However, one issue I see with this: I am a Bounty Hunter, my guild mate is a Jedi. I pull him mission after trial and error and go to a corvette. While there, I attack him, making both of us"invincible" for 2.5 minutes. We proceed to loot drop off numebr 1, let the tef wear off, loot the container, then I attack him again. Repeat for all loot containers, and/or mission critical spots on the ship.
This could be repeated in ANY environment in the game to bypass npcs and get to the"final" mob (Acklay, Necrosis, etc)
From aPvP standpoint - Myself and my Jedi guildmate pull the same trick.I pull his mission and enter combat against the opposing faction. If one or both of us are not doing well in the engagement, I can attack him to make both of us invincible, and escape.
No, I'm just not sure if there IS an answer to this question.
Message Edited by DoctorFett on 10-18-2005 01:58 PM
-Sene- wrote:
i dont put much into the argument that a BH has no loss when it comes ot a fight... not every BH can afford to ADK their whole suit and gun/s... and with a decent RIS suit going for 6.5mil and say 2mil for a good/decentpistol... that lasts how many fights with a jedi? say 20 good fights (say a 50/50 win/loose ratio being around 4mil in winning earnings averaging at 200k each
does that make any sense to anyone else?
Makes sense to me. I look at it from a one kill standpoint.
If I kill one Jedi who is fully templated, I get 225k + a bonus. I use bomb droids that cost me 95k per, foods, spices, medicines, travel tickets,etc. That all adds up to around 150k. Given the equipment reduction, since I don't ADK anything (not spending 25mil per....) its just not worth it as a money makeing enterprise. But this has been widely accepted for some time. We hunt Jedi for the thrill of the hunt, for the sense of pride after the accoplishment of the mission, and generally, because we are sick and demented and enjoy killing "innocent" people for cash.