Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Publish 20: A proclaimation of failure by the devs?
Greywulf0 wrote:
I agree with Kinshi, except on one point.
I don't think the devs have stated anywhere that BHs are meant as a population control. I could be wrong, and there might be a post for it somewhere. One thing I have learned long ago, is that you can't assume that your profession is meant to play a certain role in the game. You have to wait for the devs to finally communicate what they want your profession to be.
Message Edited by Greywulf0 on 07-15-2005 04:44 PM
XP loss replaced perma-death, the original means of Jedi population control. This xp loss is inflicted by bounty hunters.
Saber tef was eliminated just leaving BHs taking missions as the only threat to Jedi. So BHs are the watered down Jedi population control.
And people wonder why servers are overrun with Jedi?
While I can't fault the logic of keeping the xp loss in place, Ibelieve it's excessive as is andshould be reduced to a morefair and balancedamount.
Example: With publish 20 the bounties are going to pay an avarage of 50k, which you can easily make in 6 lvl 80 missions, in which a jedi might make 60k jedi exp. So you make the exp loss 60k and it should solve the problem....as long as I'm not missing something.
The higher-ups have made a clear decision to introduce jedi into the game as a common player. Departing from the previous vision. They have demonstrated that they can and will drop everything for a new idea instead of fixing the old problems. I would not be surprised if they makejedi a starting profession. They have made where 5 year olds can obtain jedi and play each other. With easy group grinding and numerous double exp weeks they can make it in weeks. These new jedi deserve no respect and get none.
Now that the last obsticles have been nerfed in patch 20 (BHs) this vision will truly become possible. BHs will drop in droves after patch 20. I just now hope that the GCW will be fixed somehow. PVP is now jedi wars and I do not want to be a jedi.
No. Let me say it again for those that refuse to think of the implications... No.
The XP Loss is there to keep Jedi and BH from farming credits. If they remove XP Loss (without replacing it with an equal or worse penalty for death), there will be nothing that acts as a deterrant for credit farming short of removing payment for player bounties.
Jedi are already having the forced-to-group-but-getting-viz addressed in the next patch which should go a long ways to keeping may of them off of the terminals. The devs couldn't leave it at that tho - they still had to play thier stupid name game which makes no sense and seriously gimps the BH's ability to hunt.
iskareot wrote:
Canadianjoo wrote:
Just an interesting point here: right now lots of padawans are rightly feeling like they are getting ganked like crazy. All jedi are on the terms, smart, dumb, silly, idiotic, and competent....and because they are all on the terms, they are all getting killed by BH. And because they are all getting killed by BH, we are losing our names on the terminals.
Now this was never ever ever a problem before the CU, and the reason is not the number of jedi out there today. Even in april there would be 10 or so sub 220k (the level where vis was at all an issue) jedi on the terms at once, and its unliekely any of them would be on at a given time...yet there most definetly were loads of jedi out there.
So what has changed? the solo grind.
The devs have made jedi, which in the context of Vis control is meant to be grinded solo, into being forced into a group grind setting. Because of this even the very casual intelligent padawan is on the terms as much as the beligerent fool. And then comes publish 20.
Publish 20 is treating the symptom, not the problem, they are catering to the problems expierienced by jedis nowadays, problems which the devs caused. There is NO indication aside from the usual vague promise that the solo grind will ever be viable...All publish 20 will suceed in is making 5 different BH's come for a jedi each day, instead of one BH coming 5 times.
There is no malice meant in this thread, just an abstract analysis. I dont fault the jedi for being angry, and I also thing this patch is gamebreaking for the hunting part of Bounty HUNTER, but I just wanted to get this out there.
I can say this, with all that you said some things also needed to be said.. for one Balance. So many people cried, so many people wanted to make Jedi less powerful, things like the old ways were made to keep Jedi in check. Ganks, 20 man teams coming for you, Group tefs and lets not forget Saber tefs making things real crazy at times.
Now then, this is a two way street now. You guys all wanted us to have Less power.. Fine CU and now look at us. 3000 Healer has less effect then I do with my novice medic and good stims.. (Guys that is the writing on the wall Im ean COME ON).. this is like the big red flag if you can't see it coming.
What has happend is this, the risk and power check that BHs had the choice to use or option I should say had to change sooner or later. If Midlevel Jedi was as strong as he was at patch 9 or better yet pre patch 9 then I would back all of this up and say, let the ganks continue let the names continue, let it all stay the same.
Guess what?.... It's not we have guys that get owned with some decent skills earned (I know the stupid afk guys dont count lol).. by two or three BHs but no where near the power we once had so what do you do?? You change the chance and change the level of gank option etc..
I think that most, or at least ALOT of Jedi would love to go back to some of the old ways and power and deal with the ganks and names on terms.. BUT I dont see the Devs giving us back this power. In a way I think "overall" you can blame this one on the CU and NOT US. Ask most of us and I would gladly take the power of pre 9 or patch 9 jedi over this next patch anyday.
weren't you like half finished during pub 9? you seem to think jedi were way more powerful than they were, ask caq or cleopas or anyone that had a 4444 guardian back then, they were not that powerful. i could easily destroy one 1v1 before patch 9 wearing 80% kinetic comp and having a pike/fencer/doc template, so i don't really understand why people have this notion that jedi were once all powerful. if anything right after pub 9 was the peak for jedi when they had their own damage type.
Kinshi wrote:
Draxie wrote:
if they want jedi to hide themselves they should give them the opportunity to grind solo from the start...the XP a Initiate gets is ridiculous low.
Hardly..the player expectations for XP gain are ridiculosly high! Especially for a profession designed from Day 1 to be rare. Before long we will have the same issue with Jedi as we do with Faction Rank..that is EVERYONE wil be a Jedi Master.
The last thing we would need is to help Jedi get XP faster
I am guessing you have never played a Jedi. The XP gains solo at a low level are very rediculously low. The XP is based on Pre-CU mobs. Now Post-CU a Solo Padawan with a Training saber can not even dent a chuba let alone something that will give XP. Xp in a solo setting is alot slower than it was Pre-CU.
jedi grouping and landing themselves on the terms shouldn't be a problem in my book...the Hunters get their target from the terminal and the jedi gets hunted.
but why punish the Hunters for something they are supposed to do??
the DEVS could easily remove the real problem here....the problem they have created themselves:
XP Loss.
no xp loss will remove MUCH of thetensions between the professions and a bounty hunter attacking will just be a inconvenience, nothing more. Jedi will grind their template regardless of the XP loss or not if they really want it.
If that happens then all a BH has to do is walk up to a Jedi and say "hey man, lemme kill ya real quick and get my money then you can get back to your grind", Thats feasible since there is no penalty for the Jedi (especially on Kashyyyk where the also avoid BF and wounds)
Doing that totally removes the need for Jedis to hide, and would make 'visiblity' even more meainingless (hell I can see Jedis seeking oout BHs to kill them so they can get back to a clone center/city w/o needing to go on a bike ride)
I think a major design element of the BH/Jedi scenario was to use BH as a form of population control on the Jedi (many jedi simply stop playing Jedi because they cannot handle getting killed). IF you remove the XP loss, you open the door wide for Jedi to propagate even moreso than they have and turn BHs into little more than an annoyance.
I dont play BH to simply be an annoyance..im out to HUNT and if you remove the prey's need to run, then there is no hunt.
No, the XP Loss needs to stay..Jedi MUST have a sharp element of risk associated with weilding the power that they do.
Jedi at this time are not wielding any huge amount of power. Read these forums and you will see post after post of BHs easily defeating Full template padawans, or going toe to toe for 20+ minutes. This does not scream Ultimate power. Once again this is something that is left over from Pre-CU. People remember Jedis taking on groups of 10+ overts and walking away unscathed.This simply does not happen now.
The Devs could put in a block where as a BH could only hunt a certain jedi say once every two weeks. This way names would not have to be removed, and it would keep farming to a bare minimum,. If you were to farm your alt once evey two weeks there would not be so much of a Cash issue.
What the devs have done with BH/Jedi?Smuggler/Entertainer etc...etc... is to put inplace a new system for combat, while leaving several things unchanged from pre-CU game.
i.e. Jedi group vis. They are slowly coming to terms with it by altering the game to fit the gurrent situation but if you ask me they did too much too fast with minimal testing and this is why we have the hate, UnBalance, and glowing Bugs we are now forced to deal with.
Message Edited by Draxie on 07-15-2005 11:21 PM
QuiJonOz wrote:
Greywulf0 wrote:
I agree with Kinshi, except on one point.
I don't think the devs have stated anywhere that BHs are meant as a population control. I could be wrong, and there might be a post for it somewhere. One thing I have learned long ago, is that you can't assume that your profession is meant to play a certain role in the game. You have to wait for the devs to finally communicate what they want your profession to be.
Message Edited by Greywulf0 on 07-15-2005 04:44 PM
XP loss replaced perma-death, the original means of Jedi population control. This xp loss is inflicted by bounty hunters.
Saber tef was eliminated just leaving BHs taking missions as the only threat to Jedi. So BHs are the watered down Jedi population control.
And people wonder why servers are overrun with Jedi?
Everyone always talks about population control. Has anyone figured out that there was never such a thing?