Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: Publish 20: A proclaimation of failure by the devs?

Canadianjoo
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:08 pm
#1

Just an interesting point here: right now lots of padawans are rightly feeling like they are getting ganked like crazy. All jedi are on the terms, smart, dumb, silly, idiotic, and competent....and because they are all on the terms, they are all getting killed by BH. And because they are all getting killed by BH, we are losing our names on the terminals.


Now this was never ever ever a problem before the CU, and the reason is not the number of jedi out there today. Even in april there would be 10 or so sub 220k (the level where vis was at all an issue) jedi on the terms at once, and its unliekely any of them would be on at a given time...yet there most definetly were loads of jedi out there.


So what has changed? the solo grind.


The devs have made jedi, which in the context of Vis control is meant to be grinded solo, into being forced into a group grind setting. Because of this even the very casual intelligent padawan is on the terms as much as the beligerent fool. And then comes publish 20.


Publish 20 is treating the symptom, not the problem, they are catering to the problems expierienced by jedis nowadays, problems which the devs caused. There is NO indication aside from the usual vague promise that the solo grind will ever be viable...All publish 20 will suceed in is making 5 different BH's come for a jedi each day, instead of one BH coming 5 times.


There is no malice meant in this thread, just an abstract analysis. I dont fault the jedi for being angry, and I also thing this patch is gamebreaking for the hunting part of Bounty HUNTER, but I just wanted to get this out there.




Cui Unitforlife!
Plus Sized Purveyor of the Pink Padded (Its back!)
Hello, my name is Sue, How do you do, You gonna die!
Draxie
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:20 pm
#2



if they want jedi to hide themselves they should give them the opportunity to grind solo from the start...the XP a Initiate gets is ridiculous low.


jedi grouping and landing themselves on the terms shouldn't be a problem in my book...the Hunters get their target from the terminal and the jedi gets hunted.


but why punish the Hunters for something they are supposed to do??


the DEVS could easily remove the real problem here....the problem they have created themselves:


XP Loss.


no xp loss will remove MUCH of thetensions between the professions and a bounty hunter attacking will just be a inconvenience, nothing more. Jedi will grind their template regardless of the XP loss or not if they really want it.



Message Edited by Draxie on 07-15-2005 11:21 PM






master of 29 professions
-hologrind jedi
-pre-CU jedi (no respecs used)
-NGE Jedi (no respecs used) and created this char AFTER NGE went Live
-dislikes AFK macro players
-7 times master Bounty Hunter
-PROUD Bounty Hunter since Launch
slave138
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:27 pm
#3






Draxie wrote:



if they want jedi to hide themselves they should give them the opportunity to grind solo from the start...the XP a Initiate gets is ridiculous low.


jedi grouping and landing themselves on the terms shouldn't be a problem in my book...the Hunters get their target from the terminal and the jedi gets hunted.


but why punish the Hunters for something they are supposed to do??


the DEVS could easily remove the real problem here....the problem they have created themselves:


XP Loss.


no xp loss will remove MUCH of thetensions between the professions and a bounty hunter attacking will just be a inconvenience, nothing more. Jedi will grind their template regardless of the XP loss or not if they really want it.




Message Edited by Draxie on 07-15-2005 11:21 PM




No. Let me say it again for those that refuse to think of the implications... No.


The XP Loss is there to keep Jedi and BH from farming credits. If they remove XP Loss (without replacing it with an equal or worse penalty for death), there will be nothing that acts as a deterrant for credit farming short of removing payment for player bounties.


Jedi are already having the forced-to-group-but-getting-viz addressed in the next patch which should go a long ways to keeping may of them off of the terminals. The devs couldn't leave it at that tho - they still had to play thier stupid name game which makes no sense and seriously gimps the BH's ability to hunt.





~Ahnaki Obe
Adventurer
FORMER Master Carbineer | Freelance Flight Artist
CANCELLED


~Cayce Obe
Crafter
FORMER Master Artisan | Master Shipwright | Droid Engineer | Merchant
CANCELLED



Canadianjoo
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:32 pm
#4

yeah we cant remove xp loss. Jedi are meant to be hunted with intelligence, with , dare I say it, investigation, and this detracts from that. My point is just that they swung the nerfbat at us instead of making jedi solo grindable again




Cui Unitforlife!
Plus Sized Purveyor of the Pink Padded (Its back!)
Hello, my name is Sue, How do you do, You gonna die!
Greywulf0
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:34 pm
#5







slave138 wrote:

No. Let me say it again for those that refuse to think of the implications... No.


The XP Loss is there to keep Jedi and BH from farming credits. If they remove XP Loss (without replacing it with an equal or worse penalty for death), there will be nothing that acts as a deterrant for credit farming short of removing payment for player bounties.


Jedi are already having the forced-to-group-but-getting-viz addressed in the next patch which should go a long ways to keeping may of them off of the terminals. The devs couldn't leave it at that tho - they still had to play thier stupid name game which makes no sense and seriously gimps the BH's ability to hunt.








Yup. I agree with the xp loss and why it needs to stay in place.


However, if the new FRS system is going to be based on defeating BHs, then the same situation (fight clubbing instead of credit farming) has to be addressed. The only way you can do that is by removing the names from the terminals.




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TalusianRogue
Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:36 pm
#6


Draxie wrote:XP Loss.07-15-200511:21 PM




Laugh.....it's already entirely too easy to grind jedi, i think xp loss should be brought back for dieing in PVE or PVP. This might help the AFK grinding situation.



Ko'c
Who the ***edit*** codes this game?

Kinshi
Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:35 pm
#7






Draxie wrote:



if they want jedi to hide themselves they should give them the opportunity to grind solo from the start...the XP a Initiate gets is ridiculous low.


Hardly..the player expectations for XP gain are ridiculosly high! Especially for a profession designed from Day 1 to be rare. Before long we will have the same issue with Jedi as we do with Faction Rank..that is EVERYONE wil be a Jedi Master.


The last thing we would need is to help Jedi get XP faster


jedi grouping and landing themselves on the terms shouldn't be a problem in my book...the Hunters get their target from the terminal and the jedi gets hunted.


but why punish the Hunters for something they are supposed to do??


the DEVS could easily remove the real problem here....the problem they have created themselves:


XP Loss.


no xp loss will remove MUCH of thetensions between the professions and a bounty hunter attacking will just be a inconvenience, nothing more. Jedi will grind their template regardless of the XP loss or not if they really want it.


If that happens then all a BH has to do is walk up to a Jedi and say "hey man, lemme kill ya real quick and get my money then you can get back to your grind", Thats feasible since there is no penalty for the Jedi (especially on Kashyyyk where the also avoid BF and wounds)


Doing that totally removes the need for Jedis to hide, and would make 'visiblity' even more meainingless (hell I can see Jedis seeking oout BHs to kill them so they can get back to a clone center/city w/o needing to go on a bike ride)


I think a major design element of the BH/Jedi scenario was to use BH as a form of population control on the Jedi (many jedi simply stop playing Jedi because they cannot handle getting killed). IF you remove the XP loss, you open the door wide for Jedi to propagate even moreso than they have and turn BHs into little more than an annoyance.


I dont play BH to simply be an annoyance..im out to HUNT and if you remove the prey's need to run, then there is no hunt.


No, the XP Loss needs to stay..Jedi MUST have a sharp element of risk associated with weilding the power that they do.


Message Edited by Draxie on 07-15-2005 11:21 PM





Greywulf0
Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:43 pm
#8


I agree with Kinshi, except on one point.


I don't think the devs have stated anywhere that BHs are meant as a population control. I could be wrong, and there might be a post for it somewhere. One thing I have learned long ago, is that you can't assume that your profession is meant to play a certain role in the game. You have to wait for the devs to finally communicate what they want your profession to be.


Message Edited by Greywulf0 on 07-15-2005 04:44 PM




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briwi
Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:04 pm
#9

I dont mind names being taken off, if they give you the name when your probe gets back. They should put the jedi rank on the terms also,so new players like myself can hunt to our level just make the payout low on low level jedi,so a MBH with skill enough to take a knight will not want to waste his time on paddies.By low I mean 50k tops for a low level jedi with no bonus.



Don't do your job to the best of your ability. Just do your job.
KeevJaseri
Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:25 pm
#10

This is a really good post....and the intelligent responses on it make some very good points.

Thats why i'm bumping it



KEEV Nov. 24 2003 - Nov. 15 2005


TIE Surface Marshall- Sith Legion Soldier- -V-engeance Disciple



RAMBOW
Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:39 pm
#11






Greywulf0 wrote:







slave138 wrote:

No. Let me say it again for those that refuse to think of the implications... No.


The XP Loss is there to keep Jedi and BH from farming credits. If they remove XP Loss (without replacing it with an equal or worse penalty for death), there will be nothing that acts as a deterrant for credit farming short of removing payment for player bounties.


Jedi are already having the forced-to-group-but-getting-viz addressed in the next patch which should go a long ways to keeping may of them off of the terminals. The devs couldn't leave it at that tho - they still had to play thier stupid name game which makes no sense and seriously gimps the BH's ability to hunt.








Yup. I agree with the xp loss and why it needs to stay in place.


However, if the new FRS system is going to be based on defeating BHs, then the same situation (fight clubbing instead of credit farming) has to be addressed. The only way you can do that is by removing the names from the terminals.





Well the Blue Glowy or a Skill Loss system would stop Fightclubbing to wouldnt it?



||||||||||||||||
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Mahonri Disciple #2: The Dusk
iskareot
Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:45 pm
#12






Canadianjoo wrote:

Just an interesting point here: right now lots of padawans are rightly feeling like they are getting ganked like crazy. All jedi are on the terms, smart, dumb, silly, idiotic, and competent....and because they are all on the terms, they are all getting killed by BH. And because they are all getting killed by BH, we are losing our names on the terminals.


Now this was never ever ever a problem before the CU, and the reason is not the number of jedi out there today. Even in april there would be 10 or so sub 220k (the level where vis was at all an issue) jedi on the terms at once, and its unliekely any of them would be on at a given time...yet there most definetly were loads of jedi out there.


So what has changed? the solo grind.


The devs have made jedi, which in the context of Vis control is meant to be grinded solo, into being forced into a group grind setting. Because of this even the very casual intelligent padawan is on the terms as much as the beligerent fool. And then comes publish 20.


Publish 20 is treating the symptom, not the problem, they are catering to the problems expierienced by jedis nowadays, problems which the devs caused. There is NO indication aside from the usual vague promise that the solo grind will ever be viable...All publish 20 will suceed in is making 5 different BH's come for a jedi each day, instead of one BH coming 5 times.


There is no malice meant in this thread, just an abstract analysis. I dont fault the jedi for being angry, and I also thing this patch is gamebreaking for the hunting part of Bounty HUNTER, but I just wanted to get this out there.





I can say this, with all that you said some things also needed to be said.. for one Balance. So many people cried, so many people wanted to make Jedi less powerful, things like the old ways were made to keep Jedi in check. Ganks, 20 man teams coming for you, Group tefs and lets not forget Saber tefs making things real crazy at times.


Now then, this is a two way street now. You guys all wanted us to have Less power.. Fine CU and now look at us. 3000 Healer has less effect then I do with my novice medic and good stims.. (Guys that is the writing on the wall Im ean COME ON).. this is like the big red flag if you can't see it coming.


What has happend is this, the risk and power check that BHs had the choice to use or option I should say had to change sooner or later. If Midlevel Jedi was as strong as he was at patch 9 or better yet pre patch 9 then I would back all of this up and say, let the ganks continue let the names continue, let it all stay the same.


Guess what?.... It's not we have guys that get owned with some decent skills earned (I know the stupid afk guys dont count lol).. by two or three BHs but no where near the power we once had so what do you do?? You change the chance and change the level of gank option etc..


I think that most, or at least ALOT of Jedi would love to go back to some of the old ways and power and deal with the ganks and names on terms.. BUT I dont see the Devs giving us back this power. In a way I think "overall" you can blame this one on the CU and NOT US. Ask most of us and I would gladly take the power of pre 9 or patch 9 jedi over this next patch anyday.





__________________________________________________________________
In the context of new development methods adopted within the past year by the studio responsible for Star Wars Galaxies, which a year ago saw several drastic changes to the game-world's overall experience, SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes."
Canadianjoo
Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:04 pm
#13






iskareot wrote:





Canadianjoo wrote:

Just an interesting point here: right now lots of padawans are rightly feeling like they are getting ganked like crazy. All jedi are on the terms, smart, dumb, silly, idiotic, and competent....and because they are all on the terms, they are all getting killed by BH. And because they are all getting killed by BH, we are losing our names on the terminals.


Now this was never ever ever a problem before the CU, and the reason is not the number of jedi out there today. Even in april there would be 10 or so sub 220k (the level where vis was at all an issue) jedi on the terms at once, and its unliekely any of them would be on at a given time...yet there most definetly were loads of jedi out there.


So what has changed? the solo grind.


The devs have made jedi, which in the context of Vis control is meant to be grinded solo, into being forced into a group grind setting. Because of this even the very casual intelligent padawan is on the terms as much as the beligerent fool. And then comes publish 20.


Publish 20 is treating the symptom, not the problem, they are catering to the problems expierienced by jedis nowadays, problems which the devs caused. There is NO indication aside from the usual vague promise that the solo grind will ever be viable...All publish 20 will suceed in is making 5 different BH's come for a jedi each day, instead of one BH coming 5 times.


There is no malice meant in this thread, just an abstract analysis. I dont fault the jedi for being angry, and I also thing this patch is gamebreaking for the hunting part of Bounty HUNTER, but I just wanted to get this out there.





I can say this, with all that you said some things also needed to be said.. for one Balance. So many people cried, so many people wanted to make Jedi less powerful, things like the old ways were made to keep Jedi in check. Ganks, 20 man teams coming for you, Group tefs and lets not forget Saber tefs making things real crazy at times.


Now then, this is a two way street now. You guys all wanted us to have Less power.. Fine CU and now look at us. 3000 Healer has less effect then I do with my novice medic and good stims.. (Guys that is the writing on the wall Im ean COME ON).. this is like the big red flag if you can't see it coming.


What has happend is this, the risk and power check that BHs had the choice to use or option I should say had to change sooner or later. If Midlevel Jedi was as strong as he was at patch 9 or better yet pre patch 9 then I would back all of this up and say, let the ganks continue let the names continue, let it all stay the same.


Guess what?.... It's not we have guys that get owned with some decent skills earned (I know the stupid afk guys dont count lol).. by two or three BHs but no where near the power we once had so what do you do?? You change the chance and change the level of gank option etc..


I think that most, or at least ALOT of Jedi would love to go back to some of the old ways and power and deal with the ganks and names on terms.. BUT I dont see the Devs giving us back this power. In a way I think "overall" you can blame this one on the CU and NOT US. Ask most of us and I would gladly take the power of pre 9 or patch 9 jedi over this next patch anyday.








you gotta admit its the whining the brings this on, but I agree that it isnt your fault that you have to whine...And dangit, I thought ganks were fun! They added mystery and intrigue and a whole new level of strategy! I was a pistoleer/smuggler BH back in those days for part of it, Id attack a jedi and see 20 jedi run out of a house and attack me, Id just take off all armor and FD, too much fun




Cui Unitforlife!
Plus Sized Purveyor of the Pink Padded (Its back!)
Hello, my name is Sue, How do you do, You gonna die!
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