Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Perhaps it's turning in to Star Wars after all...
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:46 pm
#14
Tucheck wrote:
Yes...it makes PERFECT sense that my droid can track you while your cloaked.
Force Cloak:
This ability allows the Jedi to cloud the MINDS of those nearby into not seeing the Jedi.
Using Force Cloak does NOT mean you are not there...it mean you have the ability to trick the mind into not seeing you. As far as I know...droids don't have minds. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that this ability wouldn't work on all creatures that cannot be effected by "Jedi mind tricks"...like Jaba and Watto. So yes....I'd say working as intended.
As for the /tar bug/exploit....that should be fixed. Although being cloaked does render the Jedi immune to all attacks, we shouldn't know where you are. I don't think it effects the professions that much though. And for that matter, no one should be able to /tar a rifleman using cover.
As for you LN, your really starting to sound like you mean most of what your saying...or at least trying to hide behind it as sarcasm. Look, you and I BOTH know that the BH profession is just being "set up". If history has taught me ANYTHING....it's that whenever things look pretty decent for BHs vs. Jedi, we usually get kicked right back down 3 weeks (or less) after it goes to live. So please...spare your dignity and stop "acting" like a lost puppy that got beat too much. Pub 19 hasn't even hit live servers yet, and the Jedi forum is full of "ckicken littles". Jedi have no idea what it means to be nerfed, let alone nerfed for so long.
Even if the Devs took away a Jedi(s) ability to hold a weapon, even a lightsaber, most jedi still have an option to pick up both Force Run AND Cloak to escape most BH encounter. What it sounds like to me...is that Jedi are upset that they will no longer be able to kill the BHs that DO come after them as fast as they enjoyed before Pub 19. As of right now, Jedi gain NOTHING from killing a BH, so why would it matter how strong you are against a BH when the option to escape is still there? I don't even think BHs will be part of the new FRS system once it returns. So there you have it...the Devs have made (for the time being) escape the best option for Jedi...what's so wrong with that? I'll tell you whats wrong with it....Jedi have enjoyed beating up on BHs for a very long time, and now that the margin for error has been reduced, it's a big deal.
You do have my sympathy though, even if you don't want it.
I imagine it's a very different feeling to see your profession be reduced to the "easy to obtain AFK" status that it is currently. For sometime, I felt a little upset that the Devs changed the requirements for BH. When I finally achieved MBH, the profession called for Master Scout and Master Marksman. Two times now they have changed the requirements to it's current status of 76 skill points to INV III (allowing Jedi missions). 76 points...do you know how many it takes to master marksman? 77. It takes one less skill point to hunt Jedi then it does to master a starting profession. Throw in the respec, and you have tons of BHs walking around who didn't go through a fraction of what I went through to obtain my title. Not a fraction. The difference here is this...our profession became easier to both obtain AND master due to "system design". The Devs simply changed the rules...okay, no problem. What I see going on with the Jedi profession is that it's being destroyed by "system failure". One of the BIGGEST soapboxes Jedi had about the strength of it's profession was the difficulty in obtaining it, and moreover, the difficulty in leveling. Given it's current state, and the mass numbers of exploiting Jedi going AFK while abusing system flaws, I think it's next to impossible to actually think the Jedi profession has a leg to stand on, when it comes to "strength for difficulty". These new Jedi are destroying the Jedi profession, or at least the rational for the power of a Jedi. Believe it. But don't get mad at us, cynical I can see, but not mad or pissy. It's the Devs that allow it, or maybe they just can't fix it? Either way, like I said, you have (your profession) has my sympathy. Mark my words though....we (BHs) are being set up....I know it.
It's all sarcasm, and a reflection of the attitudes I see around me. If I were gonna roll over, I wouldn't bother posting here, because I would have quit first. I didn't post for sympathy. But if even one person stopped to think about what's going on around them and changed their behavior for the better, my day was well spent.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:56 pm
#15
As I said in the other thread:
Not even close.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to own structures.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to use anything except a lightsaber.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to enter private structures.
Jedi players are widely hated within the BH community. Not the characters, but the players, for no other reason than they play a Jedi. And when it was brought up that it's not right to do so....only one person had the moral fortitude to stand up and say something.
Jedi are criticized for running when there is no profit in standing and fighting. Jedi are criticized for defending themselves. If we're not allowed to run, and we're not allowed to fight, our only purpose in life must be to gain skill points so we're worth more on the terminals when a BH decides to kill us.
Tucheck
Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:48 pm
#16
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:As I said in the other thread:
Not even close.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to own structures.
Due largely in part to the house dropping at every lair done by Jedi to secure immunity from BHs. I highly doubt placing structures to be used as mobile "safe zones" was intended.It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to use anything except a lightsaber.
This does seem strange to me....to see a Jedi with a rifle. However, if it's more effective....I don't see the problem with it, it just looks "funny".It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to enter private structures.
After attacking a BH who has their mission....YES! Come on...Jedi players are widely hated within the BH community. Not the characters, but the players, for no other reason than they play a Jedi.
Holy crap that such a generalized and prejudicial statement. Hell, I know MORE *Jedi WITH a BH they consider their alt, then BHs without a Jedi. I'm not even going to give this statement merit by addressing it. Shame on you. Seriously!
And when it was brought up that it's not right to do so....only one person had the moral fortitude to stand up and say something.
Okay...you lost me.Jedi are criticized for running when there is no profit in standing and fighting.
Once again...only when they want to use the BH to test out their skills. To see how they match up, then when they start to loss, then run into a house. Well, damnit, if you commit to a fight, you SHOULD damn well accept the consequences for getting in the fight by attacking back. YES.
Jedi are criticized for defending themselves.
This is a new one to me? Who the hell does this?
If we're not allowed to run,
There wouldn't be as many fully templated Jedi on the servers, I can tell you that. So YES, Jedi have always been allowed to run, and many do it multiple times everyday.
and we're not allowed to fight
Man...it's getting deep in here. I REALLY want to know where this one comes from.
,our only purpose in life must be to gain skill points so we're worth more on the terminals when a BH decides to kill us.
Purpose? Are you serious....Jedi have NEVER had content. That's why I could never understand the appeal....seriously. You become a Jedi, you have a lightsaber, what now? Basically destroy "non-Jedi" PvP in the name of the GCW and wonder why "normal" players rarely go overt anymore. Now that your fully templated....the best you can hope for are duel after duel while you wait for opposite factioned Jedi to come to your city overt. All the while your starving for REAL PvP and pray that some noob respec BH thinks s/he can actually beat you with a bomb droid. I can't believe you just figured this out. I still can't figure out why the Jedi profession was considered "end-game". You become a Jedi...then what? You don't sell anything, you provide no serivce, and you shut down PvP for everyone else.
Many Jedi have lost sight that it is a privilege to be a Jedi, and given the new methods to becoming one, I can see how it happened. I think you have people all wrong. I believe most players don't care IF your a Jedi, but rather, what did you do to deserve it?
Message Edited by Tucheck on 06-23-2005 11:30 PM
daz007
Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:05 pm
#17
Tucheck wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
As I said in the other thread:
Not even close.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to own structures.
Due largely in part to the house dropping at every lair done by Jedi to secure immunity from BHs. I highly doubt placing structures to be used as mobile "safe zones" was intended.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to use anything except a lightsaber.
This does seem strange to me....to see a Jedi with a rifle. However, if it's more effective....I don't see the problem with it, it just looks "funny".
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to enter private structures.
After attacking a BH who has their mission....YES! Come on...
Jedi players are widely hated within the BH community. Not the characters, but the players, for no other reason than they play a Jedi.
Holy crap that such a generalized and prejudicial statement. Hell, I know MORE BHs WITH a BH they consider their alt, then BHs without a Jedi. I'm not even going to give this statement merit by addressing it. Shame on you. Seriously!
And when it was brought up that it's not right to do so....only one person had the moral fortitude to stand up and say something.
Okay...you lost me.
Jedi are criticized for running when there is no profit in standing and fighting.
Once again...only when they want to use the BH to test out their skills. To see how they match up, then when they start to loss, then run into a house. Well, damnit, if you commit to a fight, you SHOULD damn well accept the consequences for getting in the fight by attacking back. YES.
Jedi are criticized for defending themselves.
This is a new one to me? Who the hell does this?
If we're not allowed to run,
There wouldn't be as many fully templated Jedi on the servers, I can tell you that. So YES, Jedi have always been allowed to run, and many do it multiple times everyday.
and we're not allowed to fight
Man...it's getting deep in here. I REALLY want to know where this one comes from.
,our only purpose in life must be to gain skill points so we're worth more on the terminals when a BH decides to kill us.
Purpose? Are you serious....Jedi have NEVER had content. That's why I could never understand the appeal....seriously. You become a Jedi, you have a lightsaber, what now? Basically destroy "non-Jedi" PvP in the name of the GCW and wonder why "normal" players rarely go overt anymore. Now that your fully templated....the best you can hope for are duel after duel while you wait for opposite factioned Jedi to come to your city overt. All the while your starving for REAL PvP and pray that some noob respec BH thinks s/he can actually beat you with a bomb droid. I can't believe you just figured this out. I still can't figure out why the Jedi profession was considered "end-game". You become a Jedi...then what? You don't sell anything, you provide no serivce, and you shut down PvP for everyone else.
Many Jedi have lost sight that it is a privilege to be a Jedi, and given the new methods to becoming one, I can see how it happened. I think you have people all wrong. I believe most players don't care IF your a Jedi, but rather, what did you do to deserve it?
well said 5 stars.
bluemeenie
Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:20 pm
#18
I would like to point out a disagreement on the movies not portraying alot of BH's, and this is not a flame.
If you remeber solo he was in complete fear of BH's coming after him at any moment, hell in episode 4 he almost gets gunned down by one (yes guedo), but just he's constant overlooking of the shoulder tells us they are everywhere. (if you remember the revised epd 4 with han actually meeting jabba in the SP there were a couple of BH types there). Also in 5 on the Star distroyer Vaddar is on Deck talking with at least 10 or 12 BH's to go out and hunt down luke skywalker right after the asteroid scene when they are riding piggy back on vadars ship. Seems like this enforces the idea of the empirem having a never ending supply of scum. If anything i fully believe that BH's should not be allowed to be Reb or Imp at all as they supposedly work for almight dollar and should owe allegiance to none and that Jedi should be nuetral(or old republic) or Rebellion only as Vadar and the emporer would not allow any other jedi's to imbalance the fragile nature of the force. Remember (from what i surmise) The balance in the force would only come with the distruction of the jedi's and their council and be kept in balance by the emporer and vadar himself. (balance in their minds was complete domination of the force by the sith lord and his student) If you think about Luke and Leia as being exceptions i dont because even in a sort of morbid subplot the emporer and vadar didn't neccessarily want them as fellow bad jedi but as replacements or partners to replace the other. Vadar was constently telling Luke to join him to distroy the emporer and rule the galaxy wehn the emporer was not around and the Emporer was just as willing to let Luke distroy Vadar to get him to come over to the dark side. Remember there are only ever 2 sith, the Master and the Student, all others must be distroyed.
Bi-Lok
Pre-CU BH and proud of it
Tucheck
Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:36 pm
#19
bluemeenie wrote:
I would like to point out a disagreement on the movies not portraying alot of BH's, and this is not a flame.If you remeber solo he was in complete fear of BH's coming after him at any moment, hell in episode 4 he almost gets gunned down by one (yes Greedo), but just he's constant overlooking of the shoulder tells us they are everywhere. (if you remember the revised epd 4 with han actually meeting jabba in the SP there were a couple of BH types there). Also in 5 on the Star distroyer Vaddar is on Deck talking with at least 5 BH's to go out and hunt down the Millenium Falcon right after the asteroid scene when they are riding piggy back on vadars ship. Seems like this enforces the idea of the empirem having a never ending supply of scum. If anything i fully believe that BH's should not be allowed to be Reb or Imp at all as they supposedly work for almight dollar and should owe allegiance to none and that Jedi should be nuetral(or old republic) or Rebellion only as Vadar and the emporer would not allow any other jedi's to imbalance the fragile nature of the force. Remember (from what i surmise) The balance in the force would only come with the distruction of the jedi's and their council and be kept in balance by the emporer and vadar himself. (balance in their minds was complete domination of the force by the sith lord and his student) If you think about Luke and Leia as being exceptions i dont because even in a sort of morbid subplot the emporer and vadar didn't neccessarily want them as fellow bad jedi but as replacements or partners to replace the other. Vadar was constently telling Luke to join him to distroy the emporer and rule the galaxy wehn the emporer was not around and the Emporer was just as willing to let Luke distroy Vadar to get him to come over to the dark side. Remember there are only ever 2 sith, the Master and the Student, all others must be distroyed.Bi-LokPre-CU BH and proud of it
FeartheLettuce
Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:45 pm
#20
the way I see it, its a balance issue... Devs had to balance Jedi vs BH, and they couldn't just buff the hell out of BH, that wouldnt be fair to other regular professions, so they had to nerf jedi...
FernGully
Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:53 pm
#21
Tucheck wrote:
Yes...it makes PERFECT sense that my droid can track you while your cloaked.
Force Cloak:
This ability allows the Jedi to cloud the MINDS of those nearby into not seeing the Jedi.
Using Force Cloak does NOT mean you are not there...it mean you have the ability to trick the mind into not seeing you. As far as I know...droids don't have minds. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that this ability wouldn't work on all creatures that cannot be effected by "Jedi mind tricks"...like Jaba and Watto. So yes....I'd say working as intended.
As for the /tar bug/exploit....that should be fixed. Although being cloaked does render the Jedi immune to all attacks, we shouldn't know where you are. I don't think it effects the professions that much though. And for that matter, no one should be able to /tar a rifleman using cover.
Actually, Tu, I don't think we were really talkin bout the tracking droids. That part is cool. they get the DNA sig, they pick it up, they follow it. But what RedLion was talking about was combat droids and bomb droids being able to attack cloaked jedi, which is sorta fubar. They work off your target system, and you're not supposed to be able to target a cloaked Jedi. Thats all, just clarifying. I'll let you and Leather get back to the smoochathon
ShaikeRamjet
Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:24 pm
#22
Tucheck wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
As I said in the other thread:
Not even close.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to own structures.
Due largely in part to the house dropping at every lair done by Jedi to secure immunity from BHs. I highly doubt placing structures to be used as mobile "safe zones" was intended.
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to use anything except a lightsaber.
This does seem strange to me....to see a Jedi with a rifle. However, if it's more effective....I don't see the problem with it, it just looks "funny".
It has been seriously suggested that Jedi not be allowed to enter private structures.
After attacking a BH who has their mission....YES! Come on...
Jedi players are widely hated within the BH community. Not the characters, but the players, for no other reason than they play a Jedi.
Holy crap that such a generalized and prejudicial statement. Hell, I know MORE *Jedi WITH a BH they consider their alt, then BHs without a Jedi. I'm not even going to give this statement merit by addressing it. Shame on you. Seriously!
And when it was brought up that it's not right to do so....only one person had the moral fortitude to stand up and say something.
Okay...you lost me.
Jedi are criticized for running when there is no profit in standing and fighting.
Once again...only when they want to use the BH to test out their skills. To see how they match up, then when they start to loss, then run into a house. Well, damnit, if you commit to a fight, you SHOULD damn well accept the consequences for getting in the fight by attacking back. YES.
Jedi are criticized for defending themselves.
This is a new one to me? Who the hell does this?
If we're not allowed to run,
There wouldn't be as many fully templated Jedi on the servers, I can tell you that. So YES, Jedi have always been allowed to run, and many do it multiple times everyday.
and we're not allowed to fight
Man...it's getting deep in here. I REALLY want to know where this one comes from.
,our only purpose in life must be to gain skill points so we're worth more on the terminals when a BH decides to kill us.
Purpose? Are you serious....Jedi have NEVER had content. That's why I could never understand the appeal....seriously. You become a Jedi, you have a lightsaber, what now? Basically destroy "non-Jedi" PvP in the name of the GCW and wonder why "normal" players rarely go overt anymore. Now that your fully templated....the best you can hope for are duel after duel while you wait for opposite factioned Jedi to come to your city overt. All the while your starving for REAL PvP and pray that some noob respec BH thinks s/he can actually beat you with a bomb droid. I can't believe you just figured this out. I still can't figure out why the Jedi profession was considered "end-game". You become a Jedi...then what? You don't sell anything, you provide no serivce, and you shut down PvP for everyone else.
Many Jedi have lost sight that it is a privilege to be a Jedi, and given the new methods to becoming one, I can see how it happened. I think you have people all wrong. I believe most players don't care IF your a Jedi, but rather, what did you do to deserve it?
You have some very good points. The one part highlighted in red was about something that was said in another thread about hating the people who play Jedi. Anyways, I have to give you props here, but you do have to understand that Leatherneck does in fact have some valid points as well. A lot of the Jedi whining is in fact BH induced.
Damn it... it's so aggrevating. People shouldn't be hating each other because of a video game. Yet, here we are. We're constantly arguing with nothing getting solved. It's sad, really, that we all turn into a bunch of children when we somehow feel that the game isn't right in our own eyes. We all sometimes forget about everyone else except ourselves.
I realize that we all pay to play. At the same time, what makes this game fun is the interaction between players. That interaction shouldn't be in the form of hate and spite.
No one likes to lose. Some dislike it a lot more than others. But, it's rare to see a complaint with constructive criticism anymore. It seems like the only time someone complains is when they lose a battle, Jedi and BH.
topfuel
Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:01 am
#23
Real Jedi will learn how to fight, while the rest of you that need a magic button to beat a character class that is like 50% less powerfull than you will fall by the wayside as you never deserved your bugzappers in the first place.
Bring back skill and skill point loss on both sides!
WookieOgre
Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:02 am
#24
Zade_Taerin wrote:
I've been perusing through the Jedi boards and all I see is doom-and-gloom over impending nerfage. The common response: we will have no chance against a good BH'ror multiple BH'rs, it's either cloak and run or be destroyed...
Hmmm... in the current supposed time-line of Star Wars Galaxy the Jedi have been hunted to near extinction. They are to be hunted and destroyed by order of the state... they are running, hiding or dying... looks like we may actually get back to the "true" timeline after all...
Just an observation... good luck to you all, both Jedi and BH'rs...
If you think for one minute the changes are made because of any kind of time-line, sorry not true. The changes were made because no one could think of any kind of way to balance the power Jedi had over regular players. It's always easier to nerf. The doom and gloom is wrong and right. On one hand they are correct that pretty much Jedi being top dog is over but it doesn't mean we still have to roll over and die. In regular PvP we will be able to die like the rest of melee players now.....the problem is going to be with BH missions which I'll bet is going to be changing very soon.
btw, if they wanted to follow the true time line....hmmm I can think of A LOT that is completely out of place in this game (too many BH's for one).
Zade_Taerin
Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:05 am
#25
For the BH'r it is the thrill of the hunt that is the fun. For the Jedi, sorryily it may not be... but perhaps they enjoy the thrill of the challenge, ie. the paranoia of being hunted, the thrill of the escape.The fact remains and I stated this on the Jedi boards:
evanight wrote:
And seen as there is no reason to stand and fight I will bet that you are right on the cloak and run (more so than now) but what fun is that?
Zade_Taerin wrote:
I've been perusing through the Jedi boards and all I see is doom-and-gloom over impending nerfage. The common response: we will have no chance against a good BH'ror multiple BH'rs, it's either cloak and run or be destroyed...
Hmmm... in the current supposed time-line of Star Wars Galaxy the Jedi have been hunted to near extinction. They are to be hunted and destroyed by order of the state... they are running, hiding or dying... looks like we may actually get back to the "true" timeline after all...
Just an observation... good luck to you all, both Jedi and BH'rs...
"Remember, your Jedi character is 50% of the toons available to you. If you're not enjoying Jedi then play the other one at no extra charge. Jedi is end-game content, your reward for doing everything,kill everything,being everythingin game...it is a choice and it is your challenge. Think ofas dialing up the difficulty level. If you can't handle the difficulty then you have other options."
The reduced number of Jedi that are visible in the current SW timeline brings the game backin-line...
souldragon1
Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:06 am
#26
this is wierd b/c when I am hunted while playing my jedi it seems the bh's are always the ones who are running away and sending hate tells b/c they simply can't hurt me. And lets be honest about pub 19, its raising ai by 250 fc, and actually making another class of jedi better (enhancers) The only real positive for a bh is the fact that a healer temp can heal better but don't forget bh still can't heal from lying on there backs, which is the main diff. But it was the same way before the cu, bh's were saying "ooh, we are gonna own jedi, blah blah blah" but then what happened, nada. So I think in any system its more the player than anything b/c it does require more than just a template and some droids to successfully hunt jedi (I know, my alt has been one for awhile) See either you can pvp or you can't, there is no in between and as long as jedi know all options available its gonna be really hard to kill a full temp no matter what. This is just my opinion but it is a very realistic one.