Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: thoughts on force cloak
JaymzRiken wrote:Scouting is fine.....Cloaking to first strike is fine.....The problem is there is NO WAY to stop it in a 1v1 (which is what the devs want bh v jedi to be) meaning its an "i can't lose" button.By the way, the news comes from the correspondant forums, Tanks posted it. I'm sorry that you cannot read, only flame....then again...Jedi so no big surprise.Look at my post, i suggest boosting other parts of powers...but NOOOO you don't want that, because you KNOW tha'ts not the issue, its an excuse, you just don't want an overpowered ability fixed. It needs to not work while in combat. That means you gotta escape for 30 seconds to cloak, not just run 20m away.Why is it overpowered:Kiters will ALWAYS be at more than 32 meters, much less 20m. Meaning the jedi can escape anytime, no chance of stopping it.Non-kiters: if i am TOE TO TOE with a jedi, and have electrolyte on them (best snare in teh game), they can KD me (no defense against being KD'd) and before i can stand be 20m away and cloaked. NOTHING YOU CAN DO. The overpowered part comes from the fact that there is NO counter. Having a droid chase doesn't work, they can't keep up, Having a friend with FR3 is about the only options and with the slightest lag that's not even enough sometimes. Plus its supposed to be 1v1, not 1v1 plus a friend.Nerf will come in the form of cloak being unable to be used in combat.Can still scout with it, can still alpha strike with it (the intended purpose as stated by devs), its just not an easy out everytime.As much as jedi whine about nerf thyroid and nerf cm....THERE ARE COUNTERS to these moves, yet they can defend cloak which has no counter. This is why the community mocks most jedi. Hypocrites till the bitter end.
a) You can stop cloaking by staying within 20m. If you complain about not being able to stay within 20m, you are complaining about a combination of the Enhancer 4xx4, LS xxx4 and Powers x4x4 lines. By the same reasoning I could say if I dont have at least Enhancer 2xxx I cant ever catch up to a Rifleman or Carbineer kiting at 50m.
b) There is a counter to KD - high defenses keep you from getting hit, therefore keeping you from being KDed. Try Duelist Stance or CoB - or melee defense food.
c) You can always try to root or paralyze a Jedi to keep him close to you. There are counters for Cloaking itself, and there are counters for the Jedi trying to get away more than 20m from you.
d) Please post a link to Tanks post - and if you took it from the Correspondents forums, I doubt you are allowed to post it in public, pretty much rendering the access restrictions for the general public useless.
Eskie wrote:
JaymzRiken wrote:
Scouting is fine.....Cloaking to first strike is fine.....
The problem is there is NO WAY to stop it in a 1v1 (which is what the devs want bh v jedi to be) meaning its an "i can't lose" button.
By the way, the news comes from the correspondant forums, Tanks posted it. I'm sorry that you cannot read, only flame....then again...Jedi so no big surprise.
Look at my post, i suggest boosting other parts of powers...but NOOOO you don't want that, because you KNOW tha'ts not the issue, its an excuse, you just don't want an overpowered ability fixed. It needs to not work while in combat. That means you gotta escape for 30 seconds to cloak, not just run 20m away.
Why is it overpowered:
Kiters will ALWAYS be at more than 32 meters, much less 20m. Meaning the jedi can escape anytime, no chance of stopping it.
Non-kiters: if i am TOE TO TOE with a jedi, and have electrolyte on them (best snare in teh game), they can KD me (no defense against being KD'd) and before i can stand be 20m away and cloaked. NOTHING YOU CAN DO. The overpowered part comes from the fact that there is NO counter. Having a droid chase doesn't work, they can't keep up, Having a friend with FR3 is about the only options and with the slightest lag that's not even enough sometimes. Plus its supposed to be 1v1, not 1v1 plus a friend.
Nerf will come in the form of cloak being unable to be used in combat.
Can still scout with it, can still alpha strike with it (the intended purpose as stated by devs), its just not an easy out everytime.
As much as jedi whine about nerf thyroid and nerf cm....THERE ARE COUNTERS to these moves, yet they can defend cloak which has no counter. This is why the community mocks most jedi. Hypocrites till the bitter end.
a) You can stop cloaking by staying within 20m. If you complain about not being able to stay within 20m, you are complaining about a combination of the Enhancer 4xx4, LS xxx4 and Powers x4x4 lines. By the same reasoning I could say if I dont have at least Enhancer 2xxx I can't ever catch up to a Rifleman or Carbineer kiting at 50m.
Never seen a single Jedi template without at leastone KD, root, or snare.And that's all it takes to get 20 meters from another player. And yes, a jedi without force run could still catch a carbineer or rifleman..... carbs and rifles have a movement hinderance from their weapons.... Jedi do not. You'll catch me sooner or later. (especially if you go behind a house and make me come to you..... but I can't go behind a house and make you uncloak.)
b) There is a counter to KD - high defenses keep you from getting hit, therefore keeping you from being KDed. Try Duelist Stance or CoB - or melee defense food.
Even if I pop a duelistic stance and have extra defense clothing, and take vegasparine for melee def.... It still won'tcounter more than one or two attempts to KD me. It's not like a MDef / MLS where every 4th shot is the one that hits and all else misses. It might delay me getting knocked down for a few extra seconds.... but I can still get KDd
c) You can always try to root or paralyze a Jedi to keep him close to you. There are counters for Cloaking itself, and there are counters for the Jedi trying to get away more than 20m from you.
I can't paralyze a jedi, I'm not a CM, but even if I was, it wouldn't do any good... since it'll break as soon as I damage him, at which time he'll KD me and step away, poof, he's gone. THERE IS NO COUNTER TO CLOAK ITSELF that a BH has at his disposal... maybe there is something that Jedi can use, but this is BH forums. Yes there are counters to jedi getting away from you... but I know as a 100% kiting template (MBH / MPist / Carb 0440) that even I can't keep a Jedi from getting to me... and I can't keep him from running and gettting 20m away from me... just doens't happen.
d) Please post a link to Tanks post - and if you took it from the Correspondents forums, I doubt you are allowed to post it in public, pretty much rendering the access restrictions for the general public useless.
Whatever
Your arguments are flawed and your examples are ridiculous. Having said that.... I currently DO NOT think cloak needs to be nerfed. It is not an "I win button" but it certainly is an "I can't lose (even though my friends may be losing) button".
Algren_Earth-Stormer wrote:
Eskie wrote:
JaymzRiken wrote:
Scouting is fine.....Cloaking to first strike is fine.....The problem is there is NO WAY to stop it in a 1v1 (which is what the devs want bh v jedi to be) meaning its an "i can't lose" button.By the way, the news comes from the correspondant forums, Tanks posted it. I'm sorry that you cannot read, only flame....then again...Jedi so no big surprise.Look at my post, i suggest boosting other parts of powers...but NOOOO you don't want that, because you KNOW tha'ts not the issue, its an excuse, you just don't want an overpowered ability fixed. It needs to not work while in combat. That means you gotta escape for 30 seconds to cloak, not just run 20m away.Why is it overpowered:Kiters will ALWAYS be at more than 32 meters, much less 20m. Meaning the jedi can escape anytime, no chance of stopping it.Non-kiters: if i am TOE TO TOE with a jedi, and have electrolyte on them (best snare in teh game), they can KD me (no defense against being KD'd) and before i can stand be 20m away and cloaked. NOTHING YOU CAN DO. The overpowered part comes from the fact that there is NO counter. Having a droid chase doesn't work, they can't keep up, Having a friend with FR3 is about the only options and with the slightest lag that's not even enough sometimes. Plus its supposed to be 1v1, not 1v1 plus a friend.Nerf will come in the form of cloak being unable to be used in combat.Can still scout with it, can still alpha strike with it (the intended purpose as stated by devs), its just not an easy out everytime.As much as jedi whine about nerf thyroid and nerf cm....THERE ARE COUNTERS to these moves, yet they can defend cloak which has no counter. This is why the community mocks most jedi. Hypocrites till the bitter end.
a) You can stop cloaking by staying within 20m. If you complain about not being able to stay within 20m, you are complaining about a combination of the Enhancer 4xx4, LS xxx4 and Powers x4x4 lines. By the same reasoning I could say if I dont have at least Enhancer 2xxx I can't ever catch up to a Rifleman or Carbineer kiting at 50m.Never seen a single Jedi template without at least one KD, root, or snare. And that's all it takes to get 20 meters from another player. And yes, a jedi without force run could still catch a carbineer or rifleman..... carbs and rifles have a movement hinderance from their weapons.... Jedi do not. You'll catch me sooner or later. (especially if you go behind a house and make me come to you..... but I can't go behind a house and make you uncloak.)
My point was there are also skills to counter the Jedi skills. Got rooted? Root the Cloaker. Got KDed? Hopefully you rooted the Cloaker already. If you dont have those skills, you made a bad template choice to fight people employing hit & run tactics - try to hunt templates built for tanking instead.
b) There is a counter to KD - high defenses keep you from getting hit, therefore keeping you from being KDed. Try Duelist Stance or CoB - or melee defense food.Even if I pop a duelistic stance and have extra defense clothing, and take vegasparine for melee def.... It still won't counter more than one or two attempts to KD me. It's not like a MDef / MLS where every 4th shot is the one that hits and all else misses. It might delay me getting knocked down for a few extra seconds.... but I can still get KDd
If you look at the numbers Imp. Duelist Stance is as good as Force Aura and Improved Center of Being is as good as Improved Force Aura. The Jedi will have the same hard time hitting you as you have hitting the Jedi. Not many BHs seem to use Duelist Stance against Jedi though, probably because of the warmup timer. But they could, if they dont use their skills its not the Jedi's fault.
c) You can always try to root or paralyze a Jedi to keep him close to you. There are counters for Cloaking itself, and there are counters for the Jedi trying to get away more than 20m from you.I can't paralyze a jedi, I'm not a CM, but even if I was, it wouldn't do any good... since it'll break as soon as I damage him, at which time he'll KD me and step away, poof, he's gone. THERE IS NO COUNTER TO CLOAK ITSELF that a BH has at his disposal... maybe there is something that Jedi can use, but this is BH forums. Yes there are counters to jedi getting away from you... but I know as a 100% kiting template (MBH / MPist / Carb 0440) that even I can't keep a Jedi from getting to me... and I can't keep him from running and gettting 20m away from me... just doens't happen.
Having objects closer than 20m to the Jedi is the direct counter to Force Cloak itself.
d) Please post a link to Tanks post - and if you took it from the Correspondents forums, I doubt you are allowed to post it in public, pretty much rendering the access restrictions for the general public useless.Whatever
Your arguments are flawed and your examples are ridiculous. Having said that.... I currently DO NOT think cloak needs to be nerfed. It is not an "I win button" but it certainly is an "I can't lose (even though my friends may be losing) button".
Its an "I will survive if the BH doesnt use his first strike and his skills in a good way or if the BH chose to take a template without enough crowd control to control my movement" button. Thats all.
dodgerfan21 wrote:
Pfftt....Get Master Enhancer and cloak and never die. KD, Stasis, FR 3, Cloak, /pointat, Laugh.
... and never kill another Jedi
(and you should do it without the "/pointat laugh" part)
Some Jedi are pure support toons, with a template kinda like that. They might not be your primary force, but they make the battle that much deadlier. They can also keep their friends from dying, making it to where no one kills anyone anymore, and really, where's the fun in that?
Eskie wrote:
dodgerfan21 wrote:
Pfftt....Get Master Enhancer and cloak and never die. KD, Stasis, FR 3, Cloak, /pointat, Laugh.
... and never kill another Jedi
(and you should do it without the "/pointat laugh" part)
Message Edited by dodgerfan21 on 08-21-2005 02:25 PM
This statement is false. You should read other posts before you post.
JaymzRiken wrote:
The problem is there is NO WAY to stop it in a 1v1
Well, a quick escape is only ONE use of cloak.
I'm master powers and because of that, I play more of a support role. The reason i play a support role is because with master powers i take away skillpoints that could be used elsewhere for defense. I CANT take big hits for very long so i DO need an escape. Thats where cloak comes in.
I ALSO use cloak to scout starports and shuttleports. To follow the enemy so we can keep tabs on their locations at all times during pvp.
I use cloak as a first strike skill as well. If i'm group pvping i will keep to the outsides and rear of the enemy lines looking for stray, unsuspecting rebels.