Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Jedi XP Loss
Giles025
Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:43 pm
#14
Jedi XP Loss:
Jedi complain about it - you know you'd complain about it (I would).
Now I ask that you don't be biased (time to apply those Critical Thinking skills) and take a serious look at the situation. Many posts from Jedi complaining about XP loss, and who can blame them? Sure Jedi is supposed to be hard, some might think grinding XP in the first place is too hard - maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
People want to play to have fun, not to grind all day, so although I don't have any suggestions to replace the XP loss system, I think we SHOULD get a new system in place (devs need to implement it).
Now I simply ask you topost a quick explaination of a system you come up with to replace the current XP loss system that we all know causes grief for manyBH and Jedi.
-o ;=-- - - - 
Karbal
Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:06 pm
#15
I think it's fine the way it is. Sure beats the old perma death that was put in place in the begining. The devs even said themeselves that a player may even consider themselves as "beating the game" if they ever made the rank of Jedi Knight!! So shouldn't that title be the toughest, longest, most heart breaking, blood spilling title to earn?? Shouldn't it have some major obstacles to overcome?? I know that if I had my heart set on being Jedi Knight .. I would grind it out no matter what the consequence. I think Tanks explained it best of all in his last thread. It is now making the aspiring Knights out there be a lot more cautious of their actions ... they way it is supposed to be for this era. Ending the afk grinding. The running around in Coronet and Theed in full garb with lightsaber glowing. Force Running throughout the major cities. This is also addressing the no cloning situation. Now even if the Jedi gets a rez (and they all do) they still suffer a stiff xp penalty.
plonger
Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:11 pm
#16
I've had my issues with you in the past, but i'll give you props for at least trying. That being said, I honestly don't think there is a solution that would make either side happy. Jedi would like no penalty or one that is really low so it isn't a 2 steps back for 1 forward and BH feel they are the ones to control population so if the penalty doesn't hurt it isn't worth it.
My feelings are as follows, as BH you will never control population, it is entirely in the hands of the devs to gate the jedi population. With that in mind, my only option right now is to hide in my house for 3 weeks after every buff session so I don't go backwards, or run from every encounter. From your point of view you lose out on one jedi to hunt, or I run to the closest lake and logout. Either way neither of us have fun. Want to make me stay and fight? Then I have to know that if I lose, it isn't going to wipe out what I've worked hard to earn. Ideally we wouldn't lose any experience, but perhaps we could have our powers lost for a few days due to the trauma of dying. Until it is fun for both sides, I think both of us lose out.
FelixDarque1
Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:08 pm
#17
I appreciate your post.
I am a pre-patch 9 Jedi player.
If it were up to me, I would now make Jedi a 'regular' class with regular xp requirements equal to other classes. I would make the xp requirements equivalent to all other combat classes.I WOULDkeep xp loss a part of their life. (More at the bottom)
Pre-path 9 folks who feel like that will 'screw you'...well, hold on.
I would then create a Perma-Overt 'FRS' (different xp, explained below)for EVERY combat class that requires all 250 skill points to enter...
Each class would have a set of 4/4/4/4'Over-master' skill boxes with neat and interesting skills and benefits, with an Over-master box at the top, for want of a better way todescribe it. Basically, they would increase in power as do FRS Jedi (hypothetically). Each would have similar insane xp requirements that current Jedi have, but then EVERY class could have an end-game to target that includes risk and reward for the effort.
SaidOver-master boxes would be powered by 'Jedi xp', i.e. the somewhat more costly version of xpthat Jedi now have to generate to advance.
No PvP rank-gank required to grow in the Over-master ranks, just more of the same ole' same ole'...gaining xp via PvE or other means, and perma-PvP.
At the Over-master box (you know, the one at the top of the 4/4/4/4 trees), each class would gain one key ability and benefit - the addition of an 'Enclave' for that group...a Monestary for the TKMs, a rowdy bar for the smugglers, a Starship-trooper'esque training area for the Commandos...heck I am not that creative, but you know what I mean..different things for each group...
But the BIG BENEFIT of going all the way and then some is that all Over-masters gather at the 'end of the month' on some day and battle to become the GRAND MASTER of his or her profession. A trial of arms in his or her chosen profession without silly voting et al.
I mentioned at the top that I would keep Jedi XP loss in some form. I would. I would also ADD the same thing to the BH profession. Perhaps one of the Jedi's skill trees becomes the 'Force' Tree, and is akin to BH Investigation in difficulty to attain and amounts needed, and Jedi and BH fight back and forth...the BH diminishing the Jedi's power and connection to the Force when he kills him, or the failed Jedi mission yields a loss of 'face' in the BH community in the way of Investigation xp loss. In that respect, I am saying we level the playing field...risk and reward for both sides. I bet you a dollar to a donut that Jedi 'safe houses' and constant running disappear quickly.
Oh well, just a thought. If they did something like this, there would be bugs for another couple of years, and someone with a 500 Mind Fire CDEF Rifle with unlimited shots would pwn Grand Master status...but still, it seems like 'more content'.
Giles025
Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:08 pm
#18
Some good posts - one thing I'd like to suggest is perhaps coming up with something other than XP loss that would work. I'm not very imaginative right now so some suggestions would be nice 
BTW who's plonger? and were you talking about me?
Message Edited by Giles025 on 09-23-2004 08:13 PM
FelixDarque1
Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:12 pm
#19
Oh, sorry...didn't understand the question.
As a past participant in the 3 deathcount system, I can say it seemed perfect.
If one were to die 3 times, he could choose to 'risk' loss and keep playing, or take a week off and let a death decay.
The system was a darned good one, if a little difficult to understand, but by far and away it outmatched permadeath (=wouldn't waste my time doing Jedi), and the current xp loss system (=wouldn't waste my time doing Jedi - ya I am in the process of cancelling accounts over the issue. No fun anymore. Too much risk and no reward),
alephen
Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:26 pm
#20
i wish1 thing to be changed, and i would accept it.
if a BH death cleared visibility then i would keep my account.
i can take an 11 hr setback for a mistake, even a bug. however under the current system you can get 7 full payment BH missions on you for 1 mistake, (since you are on the terms 3 weeks and the pay resets each 3 days.) that is up to 77 hrs of regrinding for 1 mistake or worse, a bug.but to let a BH kill you then get you mission and kill you again in 10 mins before you get a buff is a joke.
also, if a jedi does decide to fight he will increase visibility, thus keeping him on the terms forever.
i think this changes should be made also:
i would like to not get visibility from grouped guildmates of the same faction at least. shouldnt be given for grouped guildmates of any faction, or non guildmates of same faction imo. i should be able to play with my friends of 13 months. this way i could have SOME fun.
obviously i think there should be some tweaks,(for example: BH missions should end on BH incap. light jedi should not be forced to kill BHs, they should be allowed some roleplay.) but those, to me are very minor things in comparison.
p.s. hell i would rather that jedi be nerfed to a 'normal class' then the current system at least then it would be playable. and for perspective reasons i should note i am a novice box 0020 sabers. 10 weeks and that is all i got, because i like having fun more then grinding. and hologrinding was fun as i spent at least a few days at almost all classes (not dancer though 
)
)Message Edited by alephen on 09-23-2004 08:29 PM
Maryk
Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:10 pm
#21
Well, there is a positive thread in the jedi forum that some people are posting in. Full of good ideas and only one moron so far.
What I would suggest... remove clone XP penalty. The amount of XP lost now on DB is sufficient, while the 200K from cloning seems a bit excessive.
Also, BH mission completion should reduce the jedi's visibility by some amount (33% reduction?). And to come off the terms in 3 weeks is just too long. It needs to be shorter. Otherwise, all us BH will have to hunt is AFK jedi sitting in private houses.
Visibility is such a tricky issue. I know people want to hunt with friends but if jedi were basically free to hunt with friends/guildies, then what would prevent this from becoming a gank squad directed towards the BH? GTEF needs to be removed in this instance. If jedi want to use force powers around friends or grouped people, fine, but grouped people cannot get a TEF on BH when the BH comes for their jedi friend. The one thing I like right now is that most jedi I come across are solo and it turns out to be a 1v1 fight. That is cool with me since I run solo as well.
What I would suggest... remove clone XP penalty. The amount of XP lost now on DB is sufficient, while the 200K from cloning seems a bit excessive.
Also, BH mission completion should reduce the jedi's visibility by some amount (33% reduction?). And to come off the terms in 3 weeks is just too long. It needs to be shorter. Otherwise, all us BH will have to hunt is AFK jedi sitting in private houses.
Visibility is such a tricky issue. I know people want to hunt with friends but if jedi were basically free to hunt with friends/guildies, then what would prevent this from becoming a gank squad directed towards the BH? GTEF needs to be removed in this instance. If jedi want to use force powers around friends or grouped people, fine, but grouped people cannot get a TEF on BH when the BH comes for their jedi friend. The one thing I like right now is that most jedi I come across are solo and it turns out to be a 1v1 fight. That is cool with me since I run solo as well.
Bumhucca
Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:24 pm
#22
I say bring back permadeath, and none of this 3 saftey death crap 1 death no matter how lame, should delete your jedi, and also make you have to regrind one up
SamousNemo
Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:43 pm
#23
Giles025 wrote:
People want to play to have fun, not to grind all day
I've never heard of an RPG where you DIDN'T grind all day until your template was complete. And once a Jedi's template is complete, theorectically XP loss shouldn't bother them.
I say bring back permadeath.
Game seemed fine before and I'd say Jedi would agree. Our droids weren't even supposed to work on them back then so that would make them a little harder to hunt. Jedi also had a little more respect from the player community since only the best of the best would survive.
Then again, I'd have a lot less people to hunt. Of course if the penalty is too low, Jedi will level too fast and I won't be able to kill what I hunt.
I think the current system is fine. Sure, maybe 2000 creds per bounty, and only 1 XP lost per bounty credit (doubling our pay, but would keep Jedi loss the same), but I think a skill scaled system is a perfectly fair and reasonable compromise.
If it's any consolation, the devs did say they planned on removing the clone penalty from PvP and half the time either our droids don't work or we don't have a TEF.
plonger
Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:35 am
#24
Giles025 wrote:
Some good posts - one thing I'd like to suggest is perhaps coming up with something other than XP loss that would work. I'm not very imaginative right now so some suggestions would be nice
BTW who's plonger? and were you talking about me?
Message Edited by Giles025 on 09-23-2004 08:13 PM
I was talking about you, but the issue I had was with one of your posts on the forums not on a player vs. player basis, water under the bridge now.
Rarool
Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:44 am
#25
Here's the system I thought of...
I think that Jedi should get xp for db-ing a BH with they're mission. This xp could have a modifier the dev's could tweek to balance out they're "control" as they need to. Sometimes (in low pop Jedi situations... the modifier could be raised so that the Jedi actually would make more xp for killing a hunting BH than by dieing to one. Sometimes they wouldn't make 1/4 of what they could lose)
This modifier should NOT be discussed or revealed to the community. It should also have some kind of random element.
This would add insentive to the Jedi to actually make a fight of it instead of only running.
It would also negate some of they're xp loss which I honestly believe is a bit over the top.
HOWEVER... NOTHING SHOULD EFFECT OUR XP OR PAYOUT.
WE ARE NOT FREAKING JEDI... not even close.
TheGuv
Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:55 am
#26
Make it so when jedi die they have to replace their severed extremities with robotic partslike Luke's and Anakin's hand. The more they die the more they look like a robot.If they continue to dieafter all their parts have been replaced, make them looklike stupid ugly robots.