Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The official reason BH TEF's where removed
Message Edited by ALARIA on 11-10-2005 04:05 AM
pussycat wrote:
Expressing an opinion... and doing so rather passionately... is not against the forum rules, AFAIK... sometimes when people try to do anything and everything to dismiss your opinion without so much as seriously considering what you are saying,
I think you will find everyone has taken seriously that Jedi missions are gone, and that you dont like them?
you kind of feel that you have to stand your ground, to refuse to be treated like anything other than an equal whose opinions are no less important...
Stand my ground? I dont think theres uch ground to stand on, there is a fact that the Missions are gone, and you dont like it, my posts are merely suggesting you stop harping on about it in a deliberate attempt to anger people
and as a woman of color I all too often find myself in situations where there is a clear intention to marginalize me and marginalize my opinion, and I will not take that, we still live in a society predominantly dominated by white men... I happen to know for a fact that one of the BH's who has been slamming me is a white male... White men grow up enjoying all of the societal privilege that this society has to offer, and very frequently are used to walking over everybody and looking down on women and people of color.
To me you are white text on a black background, here and in game gender and race make NO DIFFERENCE, Most players assume a female toon is a male IRL, and the posts from those who claim to ahve heard you on VENT or teamspeak say you are male. Personally I dont care. I can go only by what you post, and frankly you post the same again and again, perhaps this move to say everyones sexist and racist ina game marks a new approach, I salute you for changeing the record.
It's not a secret that this game, too, is extremely male-dominated, male players dominate even many female toons -- the first person to unlock a FSCS was an example. And men are typically far more aggresive and intent on imposing themselves over others... not surprised that so many of the people who wanted to force others to pvp were male players. There is a whole other dimension to my objection to forced pvp that I hadn't even bothered going into, but as a feminist IRL then I guess I might as well go into that, too. And please, before you say that some women enjoyed pvp as well, sure I know some of us did, but it doesn't change the fact that probably 97% of all BH's who hunted Jedi were male... accustomed to male privilege and imposing their will on others, by force if necessary.
I find your remarks exceptionally sexist. My own findings in life are that females tend to be more aggressive but in a more subtle manner. Women are also well known to impose their will on others with a variety of techniques, is emotional bullying not as harmfull as physical. Lets face it here in the forums you are hardly a shrinking violet, you do in fact bring the fight to everyone here, YOU launch the attacks, YOU try to start the fights. I dont know or care about gender or ethnics origin. You are writing on a screen. And of the in game BH I know in real life 33% are female. As for the Gender ratio in game, sorry nothing we can do about that, both Genders have completely equal rights to access, no one is denied game play on the absis of gender or ethnic origin. Besides which players have no way of knowing or caring if the player is male or female in real life.
Message Edited by pussycat on 11-10-200504:05 AM
First of all:
For any of you who think I may have posted the nightly update to sway public opinion anout me just ask Desrea, Tang, or Kal'Bek(The one I hunted). They can tell you the stary that I told is true. Tang is also a Jedi that I formed a friendship with while grinding. Desrea I met last night is a jedi. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule when it comes to Bounty Hunters. So with that leads me to my second point.
Race, ethnic background, and gender have no place in a virtual world. Historically I have always had more female friends than male friends because I DIDN'T like the the competitiveness among males. I LOVE females! Hehe. Also, please don't start with the racial remarks because in my opion they are played out. Unless I have personally performed any negative actions against you, you are assuming that I am the same person that existed 50 -60 years ago. I have asked in other forums for people not to stereotype my toon simply because it is a Bounty Hunter template, so I ask please don't stereotype me for being a white male.
Judihah
Intrepid
MBH / MCM (Respec to Jedi cause I can)
NewEye wrote:First of all:
For any of you who think I may have posted the nightly update to sway public opinion anout me just ask Desrea, Tang, or Kal'Bek(The one I hunted). They can tell you the stary that I told is true. Tang is also a Jedi that I formed a friendship with while grinding. Desrea I met last night is a jedi. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule when it comes to Bounty Hunters. So with that leads me to my second point.
Race, ethnic background, and gender have no place in a virtual world. Historically I have always had more female friends than male friends because I DIDN'T like the the competitiveness among males. I LOVE females! Hehe. Also, please don't start with the racial remarks because in my opion they are played out. Unless I have personally performed any negative actions against you, you are assuming that I am the same person that existed 50 -60 years ago. I have asked in other forums for people not to stereotype my toon simply because it is a Bounty Hunter template, so I ask please don't stereotype me for being a white male.
Judihah
Intrepid
MBH / MCM (Respec to Jedi cause I can)
While not doubting your story, I still maintain my belief that these type of encounters were by far the exception rather than the rule... as for the RL elements that go towards making the game a certain way... you may be right in that at the end of the day, if someone imposes pvp on somebody who doesn't want it, well, it's still an unwanted action, regarding of who is performing it.... and it's still unexcusable no matter who did it.
pussycat wrote:
When I said that part about "stand your ground", I was talking about myself... kind of like saying "you gotta do what you gotta do". I find it amusing how easily you are willing to accept a complete lie from others who make up stuff about me that is totally false...
To be honest yes I am happy to believe you are a white male or a pink wookie, makes no odds to me, my brother plays female toons, I honestly put no value whatsoever on anyones claim to a certain gender or race, as neither have any bearing on the game. You are your actions.
I've never had vent or any other voice system, I'm relatively new to MMORPGs (or any type of online games)
Playing since early 2003 and new to MMORPGs? the genre itself is fairly new,You have been playing this game nearly as long as it has existedgoing by forum reg date.I would say that you have been playing htis game as long as anyone using vent. Unless of course you are an ebay account, in which case, no wonder you have such a problem with BH encounters?
and I'm also a pretty fast typist (as you may have surmised from my posts). So to me those systems would be a waste of money, but, the point is that you accept complete BS that other people make up... surely you are not that gullible?
Yes, there are ways in which society teaches us to not express certain feelings openly, as men usually do, and in many cases women will resort to the "subtle aggresive" ways to which you refer... but that has more to do with the socialization that has become standarized in patriarchal societies.
Have you got children? Sorry watch children grow up watch the differences between the sex's before they have had a chance to be socialised into certain roles and certain ways. I have seen big differences in behaviour between my daughter and sons from very early on, far before they are understanding language in any way shape or form.
It is precisely because Western societies often wish for women to conform to gender stereotypes that some of us occasionally vent in different ways. Still, it doesn't change the fact that men are statistically more aggresive than women.
Statistics? interesting source of information who reports what where and when? Police may get informed when a man hits a woman, but not when a woman hits a man. But what man anywhere ever reports being bullied emotinally by a woman?
And it doesn't surprise me if a lot of male players support pvp, call it a correlation or call it a pure coincidence, it doesn't matter. You speak of a "fight" and "attacks", when there really aren't any on my part, it's just a difference of opinions.
A difference of opinions? You dont like Jedi BH missions, they are going, there is no difference of opinions on that subject. The difference of opinions is whether or not stating the same thing 300 times consitutes debate or insane ranting? or whether your intentions are to contribute toa community and bring something meaningful here, or just to stick two fingers up at bounty hunters?
It might suprise you to know if you are not familiar with early U.S. history that debates once used to be the central part of political activity, that debates could easily take many, many hours, and that a sizable part of early Americans were quite willing to listen to their politicians carry on an hours-long debate (and in the flesh, too, no TV or anything like that). The art of reasoned discussion and debate has been lost, sadly, but deep down, that is what motivates me, really, to make use of the lost art of rhetoric to try to get a point across;
It might surprise you to know that in English politics debates are still a central part of political activity and that such debates can still take many many hours and that some UK citizens still take interest in such debates and follow political debates. It may also surprise you to know that some UK citizens take part in local politics themselves. As for US current politics, the general state of US public political engagement is something I find hard to guage realistically being the "other side of the pond". There are many very diengenous stereotypes associated with american politics. But I reserve judgement until such time as I have experienced this for myself.
or, if there is clearly no willingness on the part of others to understand this point, then at the very least to point out the flaws in their own arguments. You can think there is malice behind it, if you want, but there really isn't any... just an attempt to have a serious discussion, if the other party (or parties) are willing to do so.
No intentions whatsoever to flame or start arguements just a genuine and sincere desire to discuss and improve the game for all??
So you decide to bring up race and politics? given a few more posts do you wish to bring up religion and sexuality as well? I see you as a troll trying for any angle they can to bring in a fight.
DTQ wrote:
pussycat wrote:
When I said that part about "stand your ground", I was talking about myself... kind of like saying "you gotta do what you gotta do". I find it amusing how easily you are willing to accept a complete lie from others who make up stuff about me that is totally false...To be honest yes I am happy to believe you are a white male or a pink wookie, makes no odds to me, my brother plays female toons, I honestly put no value whatsoever on anyones claim to a certain gender or race, as neither have any bearing on the game. You are your actions.
I've never had vent or any other voice system, I'm relatively new to MMORPGs (or any type of online games)
Playing since early 2003 and new to MMORPGs? the genre itself is fairly new, You have been playing this game nearly as long as it has existed going by forum reg date. I would say that you have been playing htis game as long as anyone using vent. Unless of course you are an ebay account, in which case, no wonder you have such a problem with BH encounters?
and I'm also a pretty fast typist (as you may have surmised from my posts). So to me those systems would be a waste of money, but, the point is that you accept complete BS that other people make up... surely you are not that gullible?
Yes, there are ways in which society teaches us to not express certain feelings openly, as men usually do, and in many cases women will resort to the "subtle aggresive" ways to which you refer... but that has more to do with the socialization that has become standarized in patriarchal societies.
Have you got children? Sorry watch children grow up watch the differences between the sex's before they have had a chance to be socialised into certain roles and certain ways. I have seen big differences in behaviour between my daughter and sons from very early on, far before they are understanding language in any way shape or form.
It is precisely because Western societies often wish for women to conform to gender stereotypes that some of us occasionally vent in different ways. Still, it doesn't change the fact that men are statistically more aggresive than women.
Statistics? interesting source of information who reports what where and when? Police may get informed when a man hits a woman, but not when a woman hits a man. But what man anywhere ever reports being bullied emotinally by a woman?
And it doesn't surprise me if a lot of male players support pvp, call it a correlation or call it a pure coincidence, it doesn't matter. You speak of a "fight" and "attacks", when there really aren't any on my part, it's just a difference of opinions.
A difference of opinions? You dont like Jedi BH missions, they are going, there is no difference of opinions on that subject. The difference of opinions is whether or not stating the same thing 300 times consitutes debate or insane ranting? or whether your intentions are to contribute toa community and bring something meaningful here, or just to stick two fingers up at bounty hunters?
It might suprise you to know if you are not familiar with early U.S. history that debates once used to be the central part of political activity, that debates could easily take many, many hours, and that a sizable part of early Americans were quite willing to listen to their politicians carry on an hours-long debate (and in the flesh, too, no TV or anything like that). The art of reasoned discussion and debate has been lost, sadly, but deep down, that is what motivates me, really, to make use of the lost art of rhetoric to try to get a point across;
It might surprise you to know that in English politics debates are still a central part of political activity and that such debates can still take many many hours and that some UK citizens still take interest in such debates and follow political debates. It may also surprise you to know that some UK citizens take part in local politics themselves. As for US current politics, the general state of US public political engagement is something I find hard to guage realistically being the "other side of the pond". There are many very diengenous stereotypes associated with american politics. But I reserve judgement until such time as I have experienced this for myself.
or, if there is clearly no willingness on the part of others to understand this point, then at the very least to point out the flaws in their own arguments. You can think there is malice behind it, if you want, but there really isn't any... just an attempt to have a serious discussion, if the other party (or parties) are willing to do so.
No intentions whatsoever to flame or start arguements just a genuine and sincere desire to discuss and improve the game for all??
So you decide to bring up race and politics? given a few more posts do you wish to bring up religion and sexuality as well? I see you as a troll trying for any angle they can to bring in a fight.
Yep, that's right, about 100 more examples of your own twisted little logic, by which everyone who disagrees with you is a troll and everybody who agrees with you is a saint, even if they come here bragging about griefing other players. I have said about a zillion million times that I've been playing since launch... did that fact register in your mind? Apparently not, because you have to look at my registration date. So obviously right there, you come in here to half-read my posts and you've already made up all your negative judgements in advance. Yeah, I would say that this being the one and only ever MMORPG (so far) makes me pretty new to the genre... and to this date I am not all that familiar with all the related paraphernalia that may be needed to "enhance" the gaming experience. I *did* have to go and buy a joystick to be able to do JTL, but tbh any further expenses having to do with the game are much more likely to go intense scrutiny. I've had a lot of fun with the bare-bones version of the game for the last 2+ years, and I also had a lot of fun without ever once setting out to be "uber". We've both raised a number of interesting points in the last few posts that stray from the topic of the thread, so if you want to discuss those further I'll be happy to do so via PMs. You are obviously an intelligent an articulate person; why you insist on seeing malice where there is none is quite beyond me.
The best thing about this game, by far, has always been its community, the many hundreds of players who set out to be model citizens of this cyberuniverse and who have been happy to help others along the way. That has been by far a more rewarding experience than any hologrind or quarterly grind for the latest FOTM template... there are many reasons why the game never lived up to its full potential, and many of them would have to lay with the devs and producers. Yet as long as player bounties had been kept away from the game, and all pvp remained consensual, there would at least have been hope for a tightly-knit community trying to work together to ask for the changes and fixes that we really did need... instead of constant whining and nerf-calls between the Jedi and BH's. As much as great potential has been squandered, I still remain optimistic that we may be able to actually learn something from the past, if there is any hope left whatsoever that this game might perhaps still offer something to those who'd like to see a thriving, friendly online community in AGFFA... surely you can see that?
DTQ wrote:
pussycat wrote:
Expressing an opinion... and doing so rather passionately... is not against the forum rules, AFAIK... sometimes when people try to do anything and everything to dismiss your opinion without so much as seriously considering what you are saying,
I think you will find everyone has taken seriously that Jedi missions are gone, and that you dont like them?
you kind of feel that you have to stand your ground, to refuse to be treated like anything other than an equal whose opinions are no less important...
Stand my ground? I dont think theres uch ground to stand on, there is a fact that the Missions are gone, and you dont like it, my posts are merely suggesting you stop harping on about it in a deliberate attempt to anger people
and as a woman of color I all too often find myself in situations where there is a clear intention to marginalize me and marginalize my opinion, and I will not take that, we still live in a society predominantly dominated by white men... I happen to know for a fact that one of the BH's who has been slamming me is a white male... White men grow up enjoying all of the societal privilege that this society has to offer, and very frequently are used to walking over everybody and looking down on women and people of color.
To me you are white text on a black background, here and in game gender and race make NO DIFFERENCE, Most players assume a female toon is a male IRL, and the posts from those who claim to ahve heard you on VENT or teamspeak say you are male. Personally I dont care. I can go only by what you post, and frankly you post the same again and again, perhaps this move to say everyones sexist and racist ina game marks a new approach, I salute you for changeing the record.
It's not a secret that this game, too, is extremely male-dominated, male players dominate even many female toons -- the first person to unlock a FSCS was an example. And men are typically far more aggresive and intent on imposing themselves over others... not surprised that so many of the people who wanted to force others to pvp were male players. There is a whole other dimension to my objection to forced pvp that I hadn't even bothered going into, but as a feminist IRL then I guess I might as well go into that, too. And please, before you say that some women enjoyed pvp as well, sure I know some of us did, but it doesn't change the fact that probably 97% of all BH's who hunted Jedi were male... accustomed to male privilege and imposing their will on others, by force if necessary.
I find your remarks exceptionally sexist. My own findings in life are that females tend to be more aggressive but in a more subtle manner. Women are also well known to impose their will on others with a variety of techniques, is emotional bullying not as harmfull as physical. Lets face it here in the forums you are hardly a shrinking violet, you do in fact bring the fight to everyone here, YOU launch the attacks, YOU try to start the fights. I dont know or care about gender or ethnics origin. You are writing on a screen. And of the in game BH I know in real life 33% are female. As for the Gender ratio in game, sorry nothing we can do about that, both Genders have completely equal rights to access, no one is denied game play on the absis of gender or ethnic origin. Besides which players have no way of knowing or caring if the player is male or female in real life.
Message Edited by pussycat on 11-10-200504:05 AM
QFE
And this isn't the first time she's ranted like this. There was a thread about pvp that she presented her/his whole sexist (and now racist) theory on. Got deleted, as I'm sure this one will now.
Message Edited by darthraduel on 11-10-2005 09:19 AM
Aww cute shes a feminist now. 
But seriously I wonder if she knows the most discriminated group in America right now are white males ages 18-25 because we are in the majority and everyone is on a binge to fill racial/gender quotas.
I was infact denied admission to several colleges, despite my grades, SAT,and extra caricular activities being above par. Why? Because they needed "to diversify the student body."
Thats an exact quote from my denial letters.
pussycat and msnil are the followers of
the Dr, in Demolition man. even if you arent big fans of the actors i encourage ALL of u to watch this movie. when u see the doctor, the society and everthing else, i SWEAR youll think of MsNil and **edit** cat...and Nil, cat, before you respond to me, watch the movie FIRST
Digitalalchemyzt wrote:
pussycat and msnil are the followers of
the Dr, in Demolition man. even if you arent big fans of the actors i encourage ALL of u to watch this movie. when u see the doctor, the society and everthing else, i SWEAR youll think of MsNil and **edit** cat...and Nil, cat, before you respond to me, watch the movie FIRST
And maybe what you need is an MMORPG that is based on "Rambo", "Reservoir Dogs", or "Natural Born Killers". Yey!! Everybody gets to be a trigger-happy yahoo!!!
Digitalalchemyzt wrote:
like i said, watch the movie first, then post...
Sorry, I know that you are used to imposing your wishes on others, but, no, you do *not* get to tell me what to do...
