Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Why are we getting a mission revamp and the smugglers are getting squat?
Hope's been kinda scarce on the forums lately. I hear there's a 52k bounty on it.
Guamarhea wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Hasun wrote:
This isn't even one of our top 5 issues and its been addressed. This stinks. Smugglers were promised missions about 6 months ago and all they got from there "revamp" was a slicing systems that was changed 3 days before going live.
Jedi are the most hated profession ingame by the majority of professions, because of there constant attention, but recently I noticed alot of hostility towards bounty hunter because of the "attention" we are recieving.
I am beginning to wonder if this is the start of a master plan by SOE to takeaway player hatred from the jedi and place it on the BH's.
If we continue to get things we don't ask for while glaring exploits, bugged ridden professions and broken promises of revamps, many more professions will turn on us.
What really is bugging me though is if the development wants to show us love, why not combat one of our top issues like
- Offline missions showing up in huge numbers on mission terms
- Droids on Kashyyyk not tracking or giving names
- None of our states stick on a regular basis in PvP
All that will happen after this patchis ALL jedi alts and None PvP players will respec to MBH in the hope of looting some pearls or a cash cow, seeing a massive increase in our profession, again making smugglers, squad leaders, rangers, entertainers, etchate us.
Why must it always be a conspiracy theory? It is as simple as I was working on BH/Jedi missions and ran a few NPC missions and went "Wow, these are lame, Why would anyone want to do these?" So I came into work over a weekend and made some new challenging Marks, created some new loot, and re-itemized.
It was as simple as something was lame, I thought I could make it better, andfixed it up in my freetime.
Not everyone is about the PvP game, and even those that are like a bit of respite from it every now and then. Plus withnice new loot on there, who wouldn't want to kill some Marks?
Blix,
I've been following your posts over the past several weeks. You do indeed seem genuinely interested in improving the game and helping the community. Right now, perception of SOE by the players in regards to SWG is pretty low. If more of the Devs would express (or simply have) the attitude I highlighted in bold, I think the player community would be a lot happier. It is refreshing to see a Dev admit to seeing something "lame" and just deciding to fix it. The Smuggler Community (and I'm sure others too) is getting the impression that the Dev team doesn't define "lame" the same way we do, and could care less about responding to the feedback we give. Even our own much-heralded GreenMarine pushed the Slicing Revamp yo Live without apparent regard for our feedack, and then disappeared again after being virtually incommunicado for months.
Keep up the good work Blixtev; IMHO you are a ray of sunshine (dare I say hope?) on the forums.
riotcontrol wrote:
If you didn't know already, sadly, GreenMarine is no longer with SOE. Might explain some stuff.
I was unaware of that. It does explain his silence on the forums since Pub 19. Of course, it doesn't explain his silence regarding the Slicing Revamp in the months prior to Pub 19, or his disappointing us with "Plan B" which is even worse than the TC model which was scrapped. Yes we got a Revamp, but it ended up being simply a change from one uninteresting (and troublesome) system to another, instead of the Slicing Mini-Game they ledus to belive e was coming.
It also doesn't excuse SOE for not ensuring that the projects he was assigned do not drop even farther behind. Who is taking the place of GreenMarine? Are they dedicated to the Smuggler Profession, or is it simply a collateral duty for them...ie something they'll work on when they aren't working on something else?
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Althus_Alen wrote:
Droids should have disappeared after use, but didn't (why did they have charges otherwise?). Knowing this, you didn't delete the droid as you should have done therefore keeping it is an exploit. Pretty cut and dried - you knowingly used an exploit for your gain.
You don't understand - you can't delete an individual seeker from a stack. It isn't physically possible. Ir's an item with 10 charges. Are you honestly suggesting that I delete an entire stack of 10 seekers each time I send ONE out, just to meet your twisted definition of "exploit"?It's clear to me that you do not fully understand how it works - and you'll pardon me for noting that it's the Developers, not you, who tell players how they "should have done" in cases where things arent working as intended. I'll comply with any official request but your vision of how the game "should be" is no more valid than anyone else's.I could as easily say that I think the game "shouldn't" have more than the four living Jedi we saw in the films - so you "should have" deleted your Jedi to avoid an "obvious" exploit. But the fact is, you can't state with certainty that a bug is an "exploit" when there is no way around it.
You are just not getting the point of my post at all.
The original poster I was replying to listed a series of things that may or may not be considered exploits. I countered with a list containing the EXACT same thing, but for BH instead of Jedi.
I am not saying everything I put in is an exploit in the Devs eyes (or even mine), I am pointing out that one man's exploit is another man's bug/working as intended. All you have done is further prove my point.
I do know how seekers work, and in the example I gave you should have tracked the number of charges you had used and deleted the stack when you had used them all. Anything else is absolutely an exploit (ask a DE if they thought it was ok), but was it a major exploit with game breaking consequences, not really. However that does not change the fact that BH used that bug to get infinite seeker droids which was NOT the Devs intention (they mentioned a few times that it was a bug, so don't say you didn't know their view). There was a way round it, just no one (including myself) used that option.
Ah the 4 Jedi in the movies line. Firstly, Lucas has spannered all of you by letting Jedi escape in Ep 3 and secondly the official StarWars site has always said that the Empire used FS individuals in the games time period. We can logically assume the Alliance did too, and who is to say those FS individuals did not progress to Jedi? The Nightsisters etc managed to learn force powers fine out in the wild, so one problem is - what is a Jedi? Force powers alone are no indicator or every Nightsister is a Jedi.
You still have no comment on all those other exploits I note.
Hasun wrote:
This isn't even one of our top 5 issues and its been addressed. This stinks. Smugglers were promised missions about 6 months ago and all they got from there "revamp" was a slicing systems that was changed 3 days before going live.
Jedi are the most hated profession ingame by the majority of professions, because of there constant attention, but recently I noticed alot of hostility towards bounty hunter because of the "attention" we are recieving.
I am beginning to wonder if this is the start of a master plan by SOE to takeaway player hatred from the jedi and place it on the BH's.
If we continue to get things we don't ask for while glaring exploits, bugged ridden professions and broken promises of revamps, many more professions will turn on us.
What really is bugging me though is if the development wants to show us love, why not combat one of our top issues like
- Offline missions showing up in huge numbers on mission terms
- Droids on Kashyyyk not tracking or giving names
- None of our states stick on a regular basis in PvP
All that will happen after this patchis ALL jedi alts and None PvP players will respec to MBH in the hope of looting some pearls or a cash cow, seeing a massive increase in our profession, again making smugglers, squad leaders, rangers, entertainers, etchate us.
The Devs have stated MANY, MANY times that#2 is working as intended. Droid are not supposed to track on Kashyyyk. We have to addapt to that, get over it and move on, I have.
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
Jedi have used an exploit to mess up BH droids by logging off and then back on. As opposed tosome BH's readily exploiting the old /TargetBikeofJediIDontHaveMissionOn to force the TEF and cause a tracked death? Or the /duel exploit? Or the infinite tracker droid bug?Not all BH's did/do this, and a lot of BH's were unfairly labled as exploiters, so it isn't fair to generalize all Jedi as people who /logout to avoid fighting.
Jedi have used exploits to over power their sabers by stack crystals and pearls... not once but twice now. Like some BH's didn't utilize the slicing bug by adding PuPs to their weapons then having them sliced, thereby adding the PuP damage into the slice, and then further adding to damage by then taking the PuP off an reapplying another?
Jedi have used an exploit using the /duel command in order to see if a BH has thier mission. I recall some BH's first used the /duel exploit to prevent Jedi from being able to fight back once they have engeged them.
Jedi have used the exploit of attacking while cloaked. BH's have used the bug to attack Jedi who were cloaked.
Jedi have used an exploit that allowed them to take advantage of a broken TEF system allowing them to run inside house while in combat with the BH. Again, BH's have abused the broken TEF system by attacking a Jedi they had no mission forthrough the /targetting of the Jedi's bike. Also, let's not forget the infinite TEF bug many BH's had on Jedi marks that was abused on some occasions. Or the killing of Docs that rezzed a Jedi, by them gaining an unintended TEF, even though it was stated that the doc was never supposed to gain a TEF for rezzing a Jedi slain by a BH.
Jedi have used the exploit of using bugged battlefields to avoid combat with BH. And vice versa, when the BH was losing. This has happened on Eclipse several times that I personally know of.
Jedi have used the exploit of /offerRide and /acceptRide from 32m away in order to escape combat. The instances of which I know of where this was employed, it was not the action of the Jedi, but the friends of the Jedi who did not want him to be killed.
Jedi have used an exploit of using 2 attacks simultaneously in order to hit twice in a single action. I have never heard of this, except as experienced by players fighting NPC's / creature mobs.
Jedi have exploited the Respec in order to train a bunch of low level boxes so that they could just respec 12 hours later to the high level boxes in order to circumvent the higher XP requirements. Everyone took advantage of this, and as far as I am concerned, it worked as intended. I have seen more than my share of /respec BH's who avoided taking one mark to get to MBH and who do not know how to use probots or seeker droids. Be that as it may, it was no exploit, but using the system as intended.
Jedi have used the LOS exploit on the Rryyat Trails in order to avoid combat from BH. Again, some BH's have used this as well. This isn't a Jedi only exploit, but one available to all.
Jedi have used an exploit allowing them to DB themselves in order to not lose XP from a BH. A bug which I have never heard of.
I know there are more... but you get the point. There is plenty of reason for people to complain and "whine" about Jedi. A lot of the exploits affected more than just BH. Jedi are always finding an exploit and some way to get around the few drawbacks that Jedi have. All professions have had their share of bugs that could be exploited to their advantage. Anyone remember Artisans getting 100% xp from factories? 25% more xp from practice crafting? It's not fair to label all of one profession as exploiters / whiners / nerfcriers because some do or are. And by the by, I have both an MBH and a half templated padawan, so I know both sides of the coin. Any claim of exploit by one profession can and will be countered by an arguement that shows another profession has either taken advantage of the same bug, or another bug that equates to it.
The point is that if you try to paint a profession in broadstrokes and in generalities, then you are doing an injustice to those who play that profession as intended. But I expect that some people, regardless of profession, do not care one whit any other whay.
Message Edited by -HadesBabe- on 07-25-2005 11:24 AM
Blixtev wrote:
Why must it always be a conspiracy theory? It is as simple as I was working on BH/Jedi missions and ran a few NPC missions and went "Wow, these are lame, Why would anyone want to do these?" So I came into work over a weekend and made some new challenging Marks, created some new loot, and re-itemized.
It was as simple as something was lame, I thought I could make it better, andfixed it up in my freetime.
Not everyone is about the PvP game, and even those that are like a bit of respite from it every now and then. Plus withnice new loot on there, who wouldn't want to kill some Marks?
KzinKiller wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Why must it always be a conspiracy theory? It is as simple as I was working on BH/Jedi missions and ran a few NPC missions and went "Wow, these are lame, Why would anyone want to do these?" So I came into work over a weekend and made some new challenging Marks, created some new loot, and re-itemized.It was as simple as something was lame, I thought I could make it better, and fixed it up in my freetime.
Not everyone is about the PvP game, and even those that are like a bit of respite from it every now and then. Plus with nice new loot on there, who wouldn't want to kill some Marks?
The frustrating part for the customers is that your Correspondents put a lot of hours in defining exactly what it is that your customers find 'lame' in the game, and it doesn't get fixed ... but you pick something that you happen to run across and it gets worked on.
This only reinforces the impression that your internal processes of identifying & resolving issues in any kind of priority that makes sense to the paying customer is FUBAR to an extent that is nearly incomprehensible. What everyone should be about is quality and you won't ever get it by fixing things 'in the order that a guy randomly stumbles upon them in his spare time.'
QFE - Blixtev, please read this post and try to understand what the fuss is all about... It's not about you doing things in addition to things regularly done through the "proper" channels, that would be great... it's about things seemingly not being done through the proper channels at all.
Message Edited by riotcontrol on 07-25-2005 09:31 AM
EEMAN wrote:
Ankhesanamun wrote:
Threads like this... Where a DEV comes in and explains that he did something in his 'free' time to make something non-consequential and easily coded. Then even takes the time to come in here and tell us his reasoning and say that he's only in charge of this thing that he was working on...
And yet still people come in here and flame him...
It really makes me wonder why the DEV's don't explain anything they do, or come in here and respond to any questions or concerns we have...
Message Edited by Ankhesanamun on 07-24-2005 01:34 PM
you know what.. I hear that a lot and really dont understand why I hear that. I work for a development firm myself. We do a lot of turn-key solutions for websites that require both front-end and backend clustering and zero downtime. One such site is the ______ lottery. Out of every lottery site that hosts the Powerball this is the only one that is ever still able to connect to when the jackpot hits over 250million. Its not uncommon to receive 300-400 hits every single second. My team does a fantastic job with this website keeping it running, keeping exploiters/hackers at bay etc. But you know what happens if some guy in a trailer home calls in because he cant check his all-time record score on this Java basketball game(one of many free java games members can play)? I get woken up at 3am by someone on the night shift at the main internal serverfarm at that lottery. Not only do I have to find out why he couldnt check his score but my entire team shows up for a meeting the following Thursday with incident report in hand, to see if anyone needs to be thrown under the bus. This is how real software development works. Those being paid to do a job have to report back to those that pay us to do a job when even the most minute of details isnt working. If we took a page out of the SOE handbook of software development and simply didnt communicate with those that pay us we would not only lose our contract but they would sue us on breach of said contract and recoup every bit of financials they have paid us to date.
We are the paying customer. We write the salary checks. yet our vendors are chosing not to report back to us with regular updates as to how our game is comming along. Being a software developer is about talking to the customer for better or worse. We all take our beatings.. and we do the best we can do. Remember no good deed goes unpunished.
Message Edited by EEMAN on 07-24-2005 06:01 PM
The nature of your job and the nature of his job are vastly different. It's like comparing a plastic surgeon to a trauma surgeon. Yah, they both practice medicine, but that's about where the similarity ends.
riotcontrol wrote:
KzinKiller wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Why must it always be a conspiracy theory? It is as simple as I was working on BH/Jedi missions and ran a few NPC missions and went "Wow, these are lame, Why would anyone want to do these?" So I came into work over a weekend and made some new challenging Marks, created some new loot, and re-itemized.
It was as simple as something was lame, I thought I could make it better, and fixed it up in my freetime.
Not everyone is about the PvP game, and even those that are like a bit of respite from it every now and then. Plus with nice new loot on there, who wouldn't want to kill some Marks?
The frustrating part for the customers is that your Correspondents put a lot of hours in defining exactly what it is that your customers find 'lame' in the game, and it doesn't get fixed ... but you pick something that you happen to run across and it gets worked on.
This only reinforces the impression that your internal processes of identifying & resolving issues in any kind of priority that makes sense to the paying customer is FUBAR to an extent that is nearly incomprehensible. What everyone should be about is quality and you won't ever get it by fixing things 'in the order that a guy randomly stumbles upon them in his spare time.'
QFE - Blixtev, please read this post and try to understand what the fuss is all about... It's not about you doing things in addition to things regularly done through the "proper" channels, that would be great... it's about things seemingly not being done through the proper channels at all.
Message Edited by riotcontrol on 07-25-2005 09:31 AM
I would be surprised in the extreme to find out Blix controls what he does on a day-to-day basis. He has bosses, and very likely those bosses give him direction. If they say "Blix, go make 13000 shades of brown so the new tusken raider tapshoe line has some depth" guess what Blix is doing that day? That's right. Making 13000 shades of brown. He might say "Ok, I can do that, just so you know BH terms aren't working right" and if the bosses say "shove the BH terms, we want 13000 shades of brown" well that settles that.
Blixtev wrote:
It was as simple as something was lame, I thought I could make it better, andfixed it up in my freetime.
Not everyone is about the PvP game, and even those that are like a bit of respite from it every now and then. Plus withnice new loot on there, who wouldn't want to kill some Marks?
Smugglers are lame. Can we make it better, now?
But seriously (and I was serious just then), its a good thing that DEVs are willing to do this sort of thing and work for the greater good with their spare cycles ... thanks.
(Now hows about the 2year over do un-laming of Smuggler ... you can even use your 'on the clock time' for that one).
Message Edited by IndySWG on 07-25-2005 09:21 PM
-HadesBabe- wrote:
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
Jedi have used an exploit to mess up BH droids by logging off and then back on. As opposed tosome BH's readily exploiting the old /TargetBikeofJediIDontHaveMissionOn to force the TEF and cause a tracked death? Or the /duel exploit? Or the infinite tracker droid bug?Not all BH's did/do this, and a lot of BH's were unfairly labled as exploiters, so it isn't fair to generalize all Jedi as people who /logout to avoid fighting.
Jedi have used exploits to over power their sabers by stack crystals and pearls... not once but twice now. Like some BH's didn't utilize the slicing bug by adding PuPs to their weapons then having them sliced, thereby adding the PuP damage into the slice, and then further adding to damage by then taking the PuP off an reapplying another?
Jedi have used an exploit using the /duel command in order to see if a BH has thier mission. I recall some BH's first used the /duel exploit to prevent Jedi from being able to fight back once they have engeged them.
Jedi have used the exploit of attacking while cloaked. BH's have used the bug to attack Jedi who were cloaked.
Jedi have used an exploit that allowed them to take advantage of a broken TEF system allowing them to run inside house while in combat with the BH. Again, BH's have abused the broken TEF system by attacking a Jedi they had no mission forthrough the /targetting of the Jedi's bike. Also, let's not forget the infinite TEF bug many BH's had on Jedi marks that was abused on some occasions. Or the killing of Docs that rezzed a Jedi, by them gaining an unintended TEF, even though it was stated that the doc was never supposed to gain a TEF for rezzing a Jedi slain by a BH.
Jedi have used the exploit of using bugged battlefields to avoid combat with BH. And vice versa, when the BH was losing. This has happened on Eclipse several times that I personally know of.
Jedi have used the exploit of /offerRide and /acceptRide from 32m away in order to escape combat. The instances of which I know of where this was employed, it was not the action of the Jedi, but the friends of the Jedi who did not want him to be killed.
Jedi have used an exploit of using 2 attacks simultaneously in order to hit twice in a single action. I have never heard of this, except as experienced by players fighting NPC's / creature mobs.
Jedi have exploited the Respec in order to train a bunch of low level boxes so that they could just respec 12 hours later to the high level boxes in order to circumvent the higher XP requirements. Everyone took advantage of this, and as far as I am concerned, it worked as intended. I have seen more than my share of /respec BH's who avoided taking one mark to get to MBH and who do not know how to use probots or seeker droids. Be that as it may, it was no exploit, but using the system as intended.
Jedi have used the LOS exploit on the Rryyat Trails in order to avoid combat from BH. Again, some BH's have used this as well. This isn't a Jedi only exploit, but one available to all.
Jedi have used an exploit allowing them to DB themselves in order to not lose XP from a BH. A bug which I have never heard of.
I know there are more... but you get the point. There is plenty of reason for people to complain and "whine" about Jedi. A lot of the exploits affected more than just BH. Jedi are always finding an exploit and some way to get around the few drawbacks that Jedi have. All professions have had their share of bugs that could be exploited to their advantage. Anyone remember Artisans getting 100% xp from factories? 25% more xp from practice crafting? It's not fair to label all of one profession as exploiters / whiners / nerfcriers because some do or are. And by the by, I have both an MBH and a half templated padawan, so I know both sides of the coin. Any claim of exploit by one profession can and will be countered by an arguement that shows another profession has either taken advantage of the same bug, or another bug that equates to it.
The point is that if you try to paint a profession in broadstrokes and in generalities, then you are doing an injustice to those who play that profession as intended. But I expect that some people, regardless of profession, do not care one whit any other whay.
Message Edited by -HadesBabe- on 07-25-2005 11:24 AM
A lot of your responses are defending current Jedi bad deeds with the bad deeds of bounty hunters pre-CU that have long been corrected.
Are you honestly using the "what goes around comes around" defense to say it is OK for Jedi to exploit and unbalance the current game just because some bounty hunters have acted badly in the past?
Blixtev wrote:
Why must it always be a conspiracy theory? It is as simple as I was working on BH/Jedi missions and ran a few NPC missions and went "Wow, these are lame, Why would anyone want to do these?" So I came into work over a weekend and made some new challenging Marks, created some new loot, and re-itemized.
It was as simple as something was lame, I thought I could make it better, andfixed it up in my freetime.
Not everyone is about the PvP game, and even those that are like a bit of respite from it every now and then. Plus withnice new loot on there, who wouldn't want to kill some Marks?