Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The Paradox
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DeathbyNerfing
Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:47 am
#1
It seems to me that there is a fundamental flaw that can't be fixed in any acceptable way.
After all the work that Jedi put in to being full template, they aren't really that much more powerful than a non-jedi. I've been hunting them for quite some time, and there aren't enough that beat me (post-cu and after healing became what it has become) to say that it is just a lack of skill on the part of the Jedi. If it were just that I happen to pull a noob jedi who doesn't understand how to use his template, that shouldn't happen nearly every time.
Anyway, here's the problem that I see in fixing this.
1) If you buff Jedi to the point that other classes can't compete in any viable way 1 on 1, then both the GCW and BH missions become redundant for non-jedi.
2) If you don't buff Jedi, you leave them having put so much time and effort into being a full template jedi just to run around with a glow stick and be a normal profession essentially.
Any thoughts?
Koweim
(I'll post this in both the Jedi and BH forums to see any thoughts. Oh and "I'M L337, I PWN BH!!" isn't really a coherent response to this topic.)
TraceAntilles
Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:54 am
#2
It's getting insane, there is a real life out there and I think people have lost touch with it.
If you really want to play a Jedi character, this is not the game for that.
This game has become a "Let's be fair" game so everyone no matter how much time they invest into their template, can all have a chance at winning.
I loved the CU as a newb cause I knew I was weak and therefore I KNEW that there would be people who weren't weak. There was nothing in my mind that thought they should be dumbed down so I could have a chance at fighting them.
Seriously so, I have fought the idea that Jedi are getting weaker when all the time I should have been realizing that there IS NO jedi profession in this game. It's all a rouse to get more money and keep the mass as quiet as possible.
Sure you will always have your complainers, but keeping as many happy as possible means more money, hence the star wars element of this game and "Jedi" have long since left this game.
You get more of a Jedi toon by playing Revenge of the Sith on your cell phone by the way. Their sabers do in fact kill on contact.
I think the Imperial system should just implement a system of LS checks where if a person is identified as a Jedi, there should be one of those shuttles that come down and dispatch several level 80 Storm troopers that attack the Jedi.
The BH system never ever will stop that flow of Jedi as quick as the threat of 20 or so CL80 Stormies. This really falls in line with the whole idea of the Emporer being after Jedi anyway.
Message Edited by TraceAntilles on 09-23-2005 06:58 AM
Nullified
Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:55 am
#3
The Jedi you are fighting lack skill or don't have a viable template.
It is no coincidence, it is just that most do not know their template or horribly misunderstand their skillset.
If you meet a decent Jedi with a PvP Template (bear in mind, there are non-pvp Jedi-templates you will kill even if they understand their template), he will annihilate you.
It is no coincidence, it is just that most do not know their template or horribly misunderstand their skillset.
If you meet a decent Jedi with a PvP Template (bear in mind, there are non-pvp Jedi-templates you will kill even if they understand their template), he will annihilate you.
DeathbyNerfing
Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:13 am
#4
I appreciate your comments, but I didn't really see any reply in there.
You seem to be saying that Jedi should be buffed. What do you do about the GCW for people who aren't Jedi and what about BH content?
You can't really give up on non-jedi content for both GCW or BHs.
Koweim
DeathbyNerfing
Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:14 am
#5
As I said above, I have killed too many for your response to be reasonable. Killing 1-2 that are just unskilled is one thing. Not finding any that are skilled is another.
Koweim
Nullified
Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:28 am
#6
Look:
We have a bunch of respec jedi who have no clue.
We have a bunch of afk-grinder jedi who have no clue.
We have a bunch of non-pvper jedi who do not have a too viable template.
We have a bunch of generally unskilled pvp jedi.
We have a bunch of generally stupid jedi. (Note: We also have plenty of stupid bh)
You don't find any skilled ones because there are so few of them.
/edit
As a sidenote, what is your template?
We have a bunch of respec jedi who have no clue.
We have a bunch of afk-grinder jedi who have no clue.
We have a bunch of non-pvper jedi who do not have a too viable template.
We have a bunch of generally unskilled pvp jedi.
We have a bunch of generally stupid jedi. (Note: We also have plenty of stupid bh)
You don't find any skilled ones because there are so few of them.
/edit
As a sidenote, what is your template?
Message Edited by Nullified on 09-23-2005 04:28 PM
DeathbyNerfing
Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:31 am
#7
Basically this is what I'm getting from you.
The Jedi you fight obviously aren't X template. If you fought any that are X template, then they must not have been any good because X template IS ROXOR, and PWNS YOU BH!!!
As I said before, I don't find this to be constructive. I don't believe that my skills are so superior that I just can't find someone better than I am. I fought a group of Jedi. Some will be better than me, some will be less skilled.
Koweim
/edit
Heh as a sidenote, I'm a cookie cutter. MBH, MCM, 0/0/0/4 Pistoleer, 0/3/0/0 Combat Prowess.
Message Edited by DeathbyNerfing on 09-23-2005 07:32 AM
Neomonk
Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:34 am
#8
I think its to the point where there are enough Jedi out there to completely remove them from the GCW (or find some way to limit their participation) and have a war between light and dark Jedi. Keep in mind that I don't PVP anymore or partake in the GCW since the CU, but I think that there should be a ratio of 1 Jedi to every 8-10 non-Jedi in any particular battle.
If they are completely removed, then there should be some way that the Jedi wars could influence the GCW but not as much as non-Jedi would. I just don't like seeing the GCW battles have 6 Jedi and 2 non-Jedi in groups fighting each other. I think if Jedi were limited in some way, I would join more battles (with my alt, too, not just with my Jedi).
By removing them, or limiting them, then the development team will be able to increase their power a little bit and bring them inline with how they should be.
trajen2
Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:10 am
#9
DeathbyNerfing wrote:
Basically this is what I'm getting from you.
The Jedi you fight obviously aren't X template. If you fought any that are X template, then they must not have been any good because X template IS ROXOR, and PWNS YOU BH!!!
As I said before, I don't find this to be constructive. I don't believe that my skills are so superior that I just can't find someone better than I am. I fought a group of Jedi. Some will be better than me, some will be less skilled.
Koweim
/edit
Heh as a sidenote, I'm a cookie cutter. MBH, MCM, 0/0/0/4 Pistoleer, 0/3/0/0 Combat Prowess.
Message Edited by DeathbyNerfing on 09-23-2005 07:32 AM
Honestly? It is not that jedi are underpowered...it is that your 'cookie-cutter' template is over-powered in healing, not in damage, but in HEALING.
I can hold my own agains other jedi with powerful sabers (i have a powerful saber) . . . i can hold my own against offensive BHs who can actually cause damage to their mark instead of just healing themselves. . .
Its the BHs have more healing ability than damage-dealing that give me a "challenge". Think about it....by using CM abilities (as an aside, CM is the most disrespected profession cuz it takes ZERO skill to play) you can reduce out regens, and lay poison and fire, if they're good, perhaps 600-700 stacked damage every 10 seconds in additon to the 200-300 damage you hit us for with your gun.
You force us into a heal-cycel which not only takes mind but force as well....we hit you VERY hard at an even more expense to our force pool. Any damge we do to you is quickly healed which only costs you mind which you can buff and buff its regen...our force pool is finite and cannot be buffed. The only thing your template has going for you is healing. . .
I used to respect a BH that could put up a good fight. .. but any more, the normal FoTM BH templates are healing / DoT based and offer no challenge. Its a waste of my time to fight you; eventually I will win b/c I happen to be able ot outlast your mind pool but many jedi do not have templates built with a large force pool and you eventually outlast them.....not a very respectful win IMO.
KammaRocca
Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:57 am
#10
trajen2 wrote:
Honestly? It is not that jedi are underpowered...it is that your 'cookie-cutter' template is over-powered in healing, not in damage, but in HEALING.
I can hold my own agains other jedi with powerful sabers (i have a powerful saber) . . . i can hold my own against offensive BHs who can actually cause damage to their mark instead of just healing themselves. . .
Its the BHs have more healing ability than damage-dealing that give me a "challenge". Think about it....by using CM abilities (as an aside, CM is the most disrespected profession cuz it takes ZERO skill to play)
you can reduce out regens, and lay poison and fire, if they're good, perhaps 600-700 stacked damage every 10 seconds in additon to the 200-300 damage you hit us for with your gun.
You force us into a heal-cycel which not only takes mind but force as well....we hit you VERY hard at an even more expense to our force pool. Any damge we do to you is quickly healed which only costs you mind which you can buff and buff its regen...our force pool is finite and cannot be buffed. The only thing your template has going for you is healing. . .
I used to respect a BH that could put up a good fight. .. but any more, the normal FoTM BH templates are healing / DoT based and offer no challenge. Its a waste of my time to fight you; eventually I will win b/c I happen to be able ot outlast your mind pool but many jedi do not have templates built with a large force pool and you eventually outlast them.....not a very respectful win IMO.
Funny, I could make the same wine about every Jedi I fought before I caved in and went for the healing branch of CM. Wearing down mind and action is just as legitimate a tactic as wearing down health and actually makes sense to me seeing how when my template was all about damage, I could take a Jedi down to half health in two or three hits before they healed back to full health, rooted me, knocked me down, hit me again, then killed me in less than a minute before I could pop another stimpack.
trajen2
Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:42 am
#11
It wasn't a whine, just an observation. I bet when you DID have a damage-dealing template, you had more fun and if you did win, it felt better.
KammaRocca wrote:
trajen2 wrote:
Honestly? It is not that jedi are underpowered...it is that your 'cookie-cutter' template is over-powered in healing, not in damage, but in HEALING.
I can hold my own agains other jedi with powerful sabers (i have a powerful saber) . . . i can hold my own against offensive BHs who can actually cause damage to their mark instead of just healing themselves. . .
Its the BHs have more healing ability than damage-dealing that give me a "challenge". Think about it....by using CM abilities (as an aside, CM is the most disrespected profession cuz it takes ZERO skill to play)
you can reduce out regens, and lay poison and fire, if they're good, perhaps 600-700 stacked damage every 10 seconds in additon to the 200-300 damage you hit us for with your gun.
You force us into a heal-cycel which not only takes mind but force as well....we hit you VERY hard at an even more expense to our force pool. Any damge we do to you is quickly healed which only costs you mind which you can buff and buff its regen...our force pool is finite and cannot be buffed. The only thing your template has going for you is healing. . .
I used to respect a BH that could put up a good fight. .. but any more, the normal FoTM BH templates are healing / DoT based and offer no challenge. Its a waste of my time to fight you; eventually I will win b/c I happen to be able ot outlast your mind pool but many jedi do not have templates built with a large force pool and you eventually outlast them.....not a very respectful win IMO.
Funny, I could make the same WHINE about every Jedi I fought before I caved in and went for the healing branch of CM. Wearing down mind and action is just as legitimate a tactic as wearing down health and actually makes sense to me seeing how when my template was all about damage, I could take a Jedi down to half health in two or three hits before they healed back to full health, rooted me, knocked me down, hit me again, then killed me in less than a minute before I could pop another stimpack.
bmill
Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:49 am
#12
trajen2 wrote:
It wasn't a whine, just an observation. I bet when you DID have a damage-dealing template, you had more fun and if you did win, it felt better.
KammaRocca wrote:
trajen2 wrote:
Honestly? It is not that jedi are underpowered...it is that your 'cookie-cutter' template is over-powered in healing, not in damage, but in HEALING.
I can hold my own agains other jedi with powerful sabers (i have a powerful saber) . . . i can hold my own against offensive BHs who can actually cause damage to their mark instead of just healing themselves. . .
Its the BHs have more healing ability than damage-dealing that give me a "challenge". Think about it....by using CM abilities (as an aside, CM is the most disrespected profession cuz it takes ZERO skill to play)
you can reduce out regens, and lay poison and fire, if they're good, perhaps 600-700 stacked damage every 10 seconds in additon to the 200-300 damage you hit us for with your gun.
You force us into a heal-cycel which not only takes mind but force as well....we hit you VERY hard at an even more expense to our force pool. Any damge we do to you is quickly healed which only costs you mind which you can buff and buff its regen...our force pool is finite and cannot be buffed. The only thing your template has going for you is healing. . .
I used to respect a BH that could put up a good fight. .. but any more, the normal FoTM BH templates are healing / DoT based and offer no challenge. Its a waste of my time to fight you; eventually I will win b/c I happen to be able ot outlast your mind pool but many jedi do not have templates built with a large force pool and you eventually outlast them.....not a very respectful win IMO.
Funny, I could make the same WHINE about every Jedi I fought before I caved in and went for the healing branch of CM. Wearing down mind and action is just as legitimate a tactic as wearing down health and actually makes sense to me seeing how when my template was all about damage, I could take a Jedi down to half health in two or three hits before they healed back to full health, rooted me, knocked me down, hit me again, then killed me in less than a minute before I could pop another stimpack.
You know though.... I previously was MBH/MRM/4xx4 pistoleer and I had HELLA FUN! But the problem was that some Jedi are better than others, like every class... they all have their "elite." I could not compete with these people since I could not heal on the order of their damage output. I've since changed templates a bit and dropped the pistoleer and picked up 4xxxCM. It works very well for me, but often times, I end up winding a Jedi down of force to beat them, and that can take awhile. So you're right, it's not as good a feeling. However, I can still deal out enough damage in under 10 seconds to incap most of the non Jedi PvP'ers I come up against.
KammaRocca
Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:08 am
#13
trajen2 wrote:
It wasn't a whine, just an observation. I bet when you DID have a damage-dealing template, you had more fun and if you did win, it felt better.
I haven't tried it out on Jedi, but for PVP I'm actually having a lot more fun with this template.
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