Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Population Control....
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Yoiaholic1
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:02 pm
#1
Permadeath does NOT mean you lose your jedi. Everyone who unlocks stillcan play jedi even if their character is wiped. You've really got to stop asking for this because it will NEVER happen since the main toon is the Jedi toon now. As far as population control goes I think you need to get over this as well. The only way you would be 'population control' is if you killed the FS people BEFORE they became jedi. Its everyone's right to unlock if they grind it. Get over it please.
Acheron5
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:06 pm
#2
The premise of this thread is based on the incorrect assumption that the population control method that SOE chose to implement has anything to do with Star Wars. It doesn't- Jedi being hunted by BH is a coding decision made by Sony that has nothing to do with Star Wars lore. The proper nemesis of the Jedi were never BH's, they were the Sith.
As a population control method, BH's have been a complete and utter failure if that ever was truly their intent. At most, a BH mission on a Jedi is a temporary obstacle and won't keep that Jedi out of the game population. This is especially true ever since permadeath was eliminated, for a variety of good reasons that don't need to be rehashed.
The main problem with the Jedi population isn't the players that choose to follow the Jedi path. Given enough time it is virtually inevitable that the majority of players in this game will develop a Jedi character by mere virtue of covetting the second slot. Furthermore, once the Jedi character is in play the player won't want to relinquish that character and pursue another profession because it would result in forfeiture of the second slot. This is the way is designed. One can envision that as this game continues into the future that eventually the majority of players will either be Jedi or BH under current conditions as fewere newer subscribers enroll to diversify the player base.
The problem then is that all players are being funnelled into the Jedi profession and that there are no alternatives beyond the elite profs other then Jedi. The solution to this isn't to "balance" Jedi with professions that don't require the same amount of investment in time and effort, such as BH. Instead, there should be a few other high level professions that are available for players to pursue other then Jedi yet equally powerful. It has been suggested that one logical candidate for such a profession should be a playable Sith class that would counterbalance and hunt the Jedi class. There would be only two Sith Lords, Vader and Sidious, but beneath these two Sith Lords there would be a variety of Sith underlings, a scenario that is consistent with the content of the movies in which allusions to other Sith are made in the current timeline.This would give Jedi/Sith players their own content distinct from the GCW and would self balance the two profs by having them hunt each other in a manner consistent with the Star Wars storyline. It would also resolve the key issue in the game between Jedi and BH, and that is that the rewards and consequences of hunting each other would be equal and that these two high level profs would balance against each other instead of with a lower level profession.
Additionally, the faction ranks should be more highly developed such that they require an investment in time and effort with an accruement of corresponding skills suitable for the GCW and PvP. Perhaps by using skill points the ability for a Jedi to become a high ranking officer would be limited.
Other scenarios for expanding the professions in a logical and consistent way come to mind. The advantage of these scenarios is that they don't involve nerfing any single profession and increase the diversity of the player base and the game content, not diminish it.
Avirda
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:07 pm
#3
You Jedi are so ignorant...
Show me one place in my message where I asked for perma-death and the removal of the characters Jedi and then maybe I'll talk to you.
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The idea of population control is to continually kill Jedi and hopefully they'll eventually get discouraged and stop playing as a Jedi. This will keep the number of high-level Jedi in the GCW lower, which makes for a better game.
So, I am not asking for perma-death, not asking for anything like that...I'm just asking for Jedi to stop asking for no XP loss. The goal of the bounty hunter community is to keep the number of high level Jedi low as well as make some cash.
jimm2k
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:11 pm
#4
lol havent been around too long have ya, if you want to call it a myth it was conjured up by soe when they felt they were going to stay true to the timeline that they decided to play in. at one time during the game you never seen jedi running around theed ganking random overts, pulling out the glowstick etc
Etyrnal wrote:
Population control has always been a myth conjured up by Bounty Hunters to make them feel important. You can not stop someone from doing anything in this game unless you convince them to not buy it in the first place. Bounty Hunters may have been an inconvience to some and put others in a real hole at times but they have never had the ability to hit the delete button on a character only the person themselves has population control. And with Ebay even then it just shifted to someone else.
Etyrnal
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:16 pm
#6
If you would read my reply over you will see that I did address what you said and no my Masters degree shows that I am not stupid. Your miss conception is that you think BHs can make people quit the game and sorry to burst your bubble but they may inconvience that player but only that player can decide to quit. Also remember that if a player has invested that much time already they are not going to delete, they are going to sell. So then that character is still in the game so you have not controled the population. Besides the CU did more to get rid of Jedi then BHs ever will and guess what I still see those characters in the game just the player behind them is different.
Avirda
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:17 pm
#7
My goodness...Ignorance continues.
I do not want anyone to quit the game. I want them to not make it past being a 60K Jedi.
Can you scan in your Master's Degree so I can see it? Thanks.
KzinKiller
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:19 pm
#8
Population control was a central design aspect from Day 1 of the game that the devs abandoned while trying to dig out from the Holo-fiasco ... they dumped one good idea and replaced it with .... no ideas. They just handed the whole game over to some idiot from Marketing who said 'Jedi sell, screw good game design, we need more Jedi!'
Bring on the dragons and elves, I hear they sell well, too.
Bring on the dragons and elves, I hear they sell well, too.
iskareot
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:25 pm
#10
mintas wrote:
Avirda wrote:
Wasn't the initial purpose of Bounty Hunters being able to track and eliminate Jedi for XP loss supposed to be a form of Jedi population control?
If I am thinking accurately, from day one this was the idea...Jedi were supposed to be rare, difficult to master, and prestigious, which on most galaxies is not the case...
On Kauri there are only a few Jedi that meet this mold...The rest are immature babies, not to mention the fact that they are multiplying like rabbits.
SOE has always stated that they want to stick close to a storyline/timeline based upon the movies and literature, which I know is difficult, but at this point in the timeline there weren't hundreds if not thousands of Jedi running around with their sabers out dueling each other in front of the Theed starport while Imperial recruiters stand by watching.
I'm not calling for a nerf, but maybe they need to do something to get this under control. What they have mentioned for the next patch effecting bounty hunters is a good step in that direction, in my opinion. However, things need to happen in order to allow us to do our jobs of controlling the Jedi population.
In no way is this a "cry nerf"....I just think that there is a good balance out there between Jedi and the rest of the SWG community, even if it is at the cost of some of the Jedi that feel they are entitled to be immortal and unbeatable.
If you are a full template you should be able to whoop up on most anyone...if you aren't, well then aspire to it, but don't complain if you aren't nearly as powerful as a full template bounty hunter. You chose the path....and it is our duty to make sure there aren't too many of you.
I have killed full template Jedi and I have killed Padawans. I have no preference, but I can say that any full template Jedi can hold their own and it is great to see that most skilled, seasoned Jedi that have put in the time, deaths, and effort are the ones that avidly support the bounty hunting system and the risk that they take when using their skills in public.
It is my experience that most of the Jedi that are complaining and crying for more power, no xp loss, and a free planet are the ones that just want a hand out...an easy way to become fully templated....a simple way to not lose to a bounty hunter.
So, regardless of what happens.....Bounty hunters, let's keep the population under control.
Releying on the statement of bh's being jedi pop control, is like jedi releying on the statement of they will be more powerful then 10 standard profs....These are statements made long ago and have no bearing no, its a new game. Not sure whether its for the better, but its the one we got...
Correct Answer for the win...
Kitoth
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:27 pm
#11
Avirda wrote:
My goodness...Ignorance continues.
I do not want anyone to quit the game. I want them to not make it past being a 60K Jedi.
Can you scan in your Master's Degree so I can see it? Thanks.
You're basically suggesting that you want people to quit the game. I know you're not specifically saying that, but that's the ultimateresult of your suggestion that you refuse to acknowledge.
What? You expect people to continue to pay to play a game which is no fun for them and which blocks them off from the piece of content they want to pursue? You expect people to say "aww shucks, I can't do what I want to do because other players don't want me to have something,so I'll guess I'll just settle for something else instead."?
That's not the way it works. If people get discouraged from enjoying the game (what you're suggesting BHs do), then they quit. They don't switch to Image Designer. They just quit. When they quit, they either give or sell their jedi to someone who may not be as easily dissuaded. Therefore, you do not actually control the visible jedi population.
Edit to add:
I think where BHs get confused about the "population control" thing is that the life of a jedi is supposed to be difficult. Part of the difficulty is putting up with obstacles placed in the path of progress (for example xp loss and BHs). However, what that means is that is supposed to DETER people from deciding to pursue the path if they feel they are not up for the challenge of it. It does NOT mean that BHs are meant to STOP jedi from playing once they've decided to pursue it. The level of commitment required to be a jedi is supposed to be the "population control" that you speak of, and yourhunting of jedi is just one part of that deterrent.
Obviously though, it wasn't enough of a deterrent. But putting that aside, being population control does not mean you are supposed to make people's lives so miserable they do not want to play any more. It is not a license to harass and grief them. It simply means you are but one part of the jedi experience that all jedi must learn to accept if they choose to follow the path.
Message Edited by Kitoth on 07-06-2005 01:37 PM
JeetBadwarrior
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:28 pm
#12
One should never mistake Knowelge for wisdom, Knowledge is a thing of the past...wisdom is in the now..all a master degree proves is that you are able to learn and reguratate what you have learned in the apropitate enviroment under controled conditions...it does not grant you wisdom...that is done by experiance of life for it is an ever flowinf process in which there are no master degree...so defend your precieved moric comment with i have a master degree only renforces the point that you are not as wise as you are Knowlegable...
Avirda
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:35 pm
#13
Kitoth wrote:
Avirda wrote:
My goodness...Ignorance continues.
I do not want anyone to quit the game. I want them to not make it past being a 60K Jedi.
Can you scan in your Master's Degree so I can see it? Thanks.
You're basically suggesting that you want people to quit the game. I know you're not specifically saying that, but that's the ultimateresult of your suggestion that you refuse to acknowledge.
What? You expect people to continue to pay to play a game which is no fun for them and which blocks them off from the piece of content they want to pursue? You expect people to say "aww shucks, I can't do what I want to do because other players don't want me to have something,so I'll guess I'll just settle for something else instead."?
That's not the way it works. If people get discouraged from enjoying the game (what you're suggesting BHs do), then they quit. They don't switch to Image Designer. They just quit. When they quit, they either give or sell their jedi to someone who may not be as easily dissuaded. Therefore, you do not actually control the visible jedi population.
I don't want anyone to quit the game....Wait a second, did I already say that?
I just want there to be not as many high level Jedi running around ruining the GCW. It isn't a whole lot of fun when you go to fight the Rebs and you are immediately ganked by seven Jedi. At this time the GCW isn't player vs. player it is Jedi vs. Jedi.
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