Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Self Inflicted NERF
Well I stated a post and it got out of hand.. Ego flying.. People not reading and getting the information that I at least tried to get out. So I am going to change this as I didnt communicate what I was truly thinking...
First off I refered to the fact that if you think you know this system, then make a specific creature.. Exactly.. Well, everyone took that as me patting myself on the back. That was not the point, nor what I was getting at.. I was trying to state that the changes in BE right now are GREAT. They allow for an artistic approach to something that was before just cut and dry. Click here add here. Get this.. Wash.. Rinse.. Repeat..
Now it is like an artist hitting a brush to a canvas.. No matter how many times he tries to repeat the 1st stroke.. He will never get it the perfectly the same.. And for that I am LOVING this new system.. Now let me also add that I mention the Karraimuth(sp?) DNA.. And how I see it as not bugged as it fits into a certain area that I can repeat on all armored DNA.. And yet once again people didnt read the whole thing.. Please read again now..
I feel us associating CL to HAM ratios as just us (BE's) setting ourselfs to self nerf.. To make the devs say "hey that is a great idea lets make all HAM related to the CL every time".. And poof we get...
HAM/250 = CL..
Now we are RIGHT back to where we were before.. Making the same pets over and over again with no sense of that artistic approach that I am enjoying so much right now.. Our ability to take any DNA and hone it to make a CL 40 creature into a CL 10 creature by limiting itin certain areas, over and over again, and boosting others to make a creature that would be a tank for somebody who didnt have CH.. But once again I am sure thathalf my words here will be skipped over,only to be read in some strange out ofcontext way to allow me to be some money grubbing swindler,or some sort of crap distributer..
My intention is not to pee in anyones wheaties.. But to stop the insanity of everyone reading "special writtings on the wall" adding conjecture, and making statements that arent true based on something that might be hidden between the lines.. There is NOTHING between these lines.. That's not my style at all..
The facts are
No DEVS has said squat one about any changes.
No DEVS have mentioned anything about more changes to the CH line
No DEVS have mentioned this patchis outside of what they wanted
Let the devs do thier jobs.. To sit there and pass judgement on anyone who is using the system for how it was created and saying "YOU ARE EXPLOITING".. Exploiting is the use of something for what it was not intended to do.. No dev has listed or said what the system should really be.. They did not list HAMS as being hard set.. They didn't even make asoft set for that matter. And for you to want to limit it as YOU feel, because it is harmfull to your universal understanding... that's youropinion.. And hey I am not against that.. Butit is not stopping there. Thread upon thread here has come and gone, where everyone wants to SPEAR-HEAD some kind of self nerf or change. Itis silly.. And this is not me saying I want to make money hand over fist.. This is my fear of losing the ability to make a pet that IWANT to make and not some static creature, like an artisan makes a component,or one that anyone with 5 DNA samples can make..
Dont make this another weapon smith profession..
A wise man once said, "People fear what they dont understand".
Dont be affraid. But strive to understand.
/cheer /clap
hehehehe, I get tired of reading the " This DNA is an Exploit becuase of XXYYZ!" , so I don't read them anymore.
The Dev's / SOE don't say much.
Yes people are cutting their own nuts/overies off/out because for so long the limits were known and only able to make above/below a set rangeand now that the only limits are your own limitations in creativity some are screaming that those who make some interesting pets "MUST" be using an Exploit since they themselves can't or have a hard time matching the creation.
All mob's without some % in a resist catagory are set to "0", why ... I don't know, I didn't code the game.
Or if other folks prefer ...... Of all the mobs I have sampled since the change, if they don't list a "----" or a " number" in the in the resist then the DNA typically has " 0 " in all the other "hidden" */snicker* resists.
I have hit about 30 mobs with "0" any resist slot not marked as "vulnerable" or at least "1%".
Just have fun folks, post your steps to make your "uber" pets and above all ............ Have FUN! hehehehehe
Nikkoli Walksfar
Yea this is a self inflicted nerf.
Too many no-life wannabee devs running around running their mouths. The game is better off without them.
I for one like BEas it is. We dont need any more nerfs.
We dont need any self appointed, self righteous meddlers ruining things for everybody else either. These people need to get it through their heads that theyre no body. Theyre not special. The devs will never acknowledge them or let them into their little club.No body likes these people and they need to stop.
DaBlingbling wrote:
I was trying to state that the changes in BE right now are GREAT. They allow for an artistic approach to something that was before just cut and dry. Click here add here. Get this.. Wash.. Rinse.. Repeat..
Now it is like an artist hitting a brush to a canvas.. No matter how many times he tries to repeat the 1st stroke.. He will never get it the perfectly the same.. And for that I am LOVING this new system.. Now let me also add that I mention the Karraimuth(sp?) DNA.. And how I see it as not bugged as it fits into a certain area that I can repeat on all armored DNA.. And yet once again people didnt read the whole thing.. Please read again now..
I don't understand why people have one-stared you 
!
Oh well... Anyway, let me tell you that you're not the only one thinking like this. I really agree with what you do say here right above 
!
There needs to be a profession with mysteries about its craft, with trials and errors, with differences, with not 2 times the same result... BE is the mad scientist profession, and as such should not have all its rules and calculus unveiled...
So let me get this straight.
Your argument is "Non-CH pets should not be able to tank".
Why else would anybody actually want a pet exactly? Because they look cute or something? That won't be a good enough reason to sell them to people, will it?
Talth ("Dances with Devs") has said we should be able to make pets 2-3 levels better than wild ones, which will mean Non-CH pets will be 1200-2200 HAM. That means well be making the equivalent of post nerf Rock Beetles for people (you know,those things people were frying in the streets with flame throwers after the nerf).
Ask yourself this, "WouldI use a creature that will only take3-4 hits in a fight?". Unless your just feeling argumentative, or fighting Dwarf Nunas, the answer is obviously "No". So what makes you think that our customers would?If no body wants what we make (besides Kaadu, but even thats been killed off since bikes), whats the point in being a BE?
I have trouble believing _any_ BE wouldn't find that a concern.
Siyja_Derahldr wrote:
6k HAM is at least CL 20, not 10.
The argument "well DUH the whole point of bio engineering is to make animals better, not reproduce the same junk that any novice CH can tame." is not valuable. Why ? Because it gives the possibility to Non-CH to use pets as Tank.
Tell me now. Who was whining about "starwars galaxies : a poke mon war" ? The same players now use that **exploit**.
meroc wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Your argument is "Non-CH pets should not be able to tank".
Why else would anybody actually want a pet exactly? Because they look cute or something? That won't be a good enough reason to sell them to people, will it?
Talth ("Dances with Devs") has said we should be able to make pets 2-3 levels better than wild ones, which will mean Non-CH pets will be 1200-2200 HAM. That means well be making the equivalent of post nerf Rock Beetles for people (you know,those things people were frying in the streets with flame throwers after the nerf).
It's not "our" argument that non-CH pets shouldn't be able to tank.. it's the change that was already made to the game with the last publish. /boggle
So, despite thechanges to CH skill trees, reduction of non-CH CLlevel, the subsequent reduction of non-CH pet stats, the non-CH pet trade-in program.. despite all of this.. BE's should be able to make tanks for non-CH and dabblers that were *better* than what they had before the nerf?
Oh, that's right.. I forgot that all those changes were *really* made to benefit the BE profession. Silly me.
Ri'a
DaBlingbling wrote:Well I stated a post and it got out of hand.. Ego flying.. People not reading and getting the information that I at least tried to get out. So I am going to change this as I didnt communicate what I was truly thinking...
First off I refered to the fact that if you think you know this system, then make a specific creature.. Exactly.. Well, everyone took that as me patting myself on the back. That was not the point, nor what I was getting at.. I was trying to state that the changes in BE right now are GREAT. They allow for an artistic approach to something that was before just cut and dry. Click here add here. Get this.. Wash.. Rinse.. Repeat..
Now it is like an artist hitting a brush to a canvas.. No matter how many times he tries to repeat the 1st stroke.. He will never get it the perfectly the same.. And for that I am LOVING this new system.. Now let me also add that I mention the Karraimuth(sp?) DNA.. And how I see it as not bugged as it fits into a certain area that I can repeat on all armored DNA.. And yet once again people didnt read the whole thing.. Please read again now..
I feel us associating CL to HAM ratios as just us (BE's) setting ourselfs to self nerf.. To make the devs say "hey that is a great idea lets make all HAM related to the CL every time".. And poof we get...
HAM/250 = CL..
Now we are RIGHT back to where we were before.. Making the same pets over and over again with no sense of that artistic approach that I am enjoying so much right now.. Our ability to take any DNA and hone it to make a CL 40 creature into a CL 10 creature by limiting it in certain areas, over and over again, and boosting others to make a creature that would be a tank for somebody who didnt have CH.. But once again I am sure that half my words here will be skipped over, only to be read in some strange out of context way to allow me to be some money grubbing swindler, or some sort of crap distributer..
My intention is not to pee in anyones wheaties.. But to stop the insanity of everyone reading "special writtings on the wall" adding conjecture, and making statements that arent true based on something that might be hidden between the lines.. There is NOTHING between these lines.. That's not my style at all..
The facts are
No DEVS has said squat one about any changes.
No DEVS have mentioned anything about more changes to the CH line
No DEVS have mentioned this patch is outside of what they wanted
Let the devs do thier jobs.. To sit there and pass judgement on anyone who is using the system for how it was created and saying "YOU ARE EXPLOITING".. Exploiting is the use of something for what it was not intended to do.. No dev has listed or said what the system should really be.. They did not list HAMS as being hard set.. They didn't even make a soft set for that matter. And for you to want to limit it as YOU feel, because it is harmfull to your universal understanding... that's your opinion.. And hey I am not against that.. But it is not stopping there. Thread upon thread here has come and gone, where everyone wants to SPEAR-HEAD some kind of self nerf or change. It is silly.. And this is not me saying I want to make money hand over fist.. This is my fear of losing the ability to make a pet that I WANT to make and not some static creature, like an artisan makes a component, or one that anyone with 5 DNA samples can make..
Dont make this another weapon smith profession..
A wise man once said, "People fear what they dont understand".
Dont be affraid. But strive to understand.
/agree;/vote4rep;/love
That was _Siyja's_ argument, which I assume he/she supports regardless of it's source:
"The argument "well DUH the whole point of bio engineering is to make animals better, not reproduce the same junk that any novice CH can tame." is not valuable. Why ? Because it gives the possibility to Non-CH to use pets as Tank."
And you didn't actually address what I asked Anita. Youkinda cut that off on the quote as well:
"Ask yourself this, "WouldI use a creature that will only take3-4 hits in a fight?". Unless your just feeling argumentative, or fighting Dwarf Nunas, the answer is obviously "No". So what makes you think that our customers would?If no body wants what we make (besides Kaadu, but even thats been killed off since bikes), whats the point in being a BE?
I have trouble believing _any_ BE wouldn't find that a concern."
Instead of going off on a tangent, how about addressing the main issue of what I actually asked:
Do you believe people will buy our pets if they can't tank?
If people don't buy our pets, is there a point to the BE class?
Is that a concern to other BE's?
3simple straight forward questions. If you bother to reply I'd appreciate straight forward answers.
AnitaSWG wrote:
meroc wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Your argument is "Non-CH pets should not be able to tank".
Why else would anybody actually want a pet exactly? Because they look cute or something? That won't be a good enough reason to sell them to people, will it?
Talth ("Dances with Devs") has said we should be able to make pets 2-3 levels better than wild ones, which will mean Non-CH pets will be 1200-2200 HAM. That means well be making the equivalent of post nerf Rock Beetles for people (you know,those things people were frying in the streets with flame throwers after the nerf).
It's not "our" argument that non-CH pets shouldn't be able to tank.. it's the change that was already made to the game with the last publish. /boggle
So, despite thechanges to CH skill trees, reduction of non-CH CLlevel, the subsequent reduction of non-CH pet stats, the non-CH pet trade-in program.. despite all of this.. BE's should be able to make tanks for non-CH and dabblers that were *better* than what they had before the nerf?
Oh, that's right.. I forgot that all those changes were *really* made to benefit the BE profession. Silly me.
Ri'a
Ask yourself this, "WouldI use a creature that will only take3-4 hits in a fight?". Unless your just feeling argumentative, or fighting Dwarf Nunas, the answer is obviously "No". So what makes you think that our customers would?If no body wants what we make (besides Kaadu, but even thats been killed off since bikes), whats the point in being a BE?
The only mobs that would kill a 1500 HAM pet in 3-4 hits are the ones around CL40-50 which are hitting for around 500 points of damage every 2 seconds. People shouldn't be able to solo those mobs without exceptional difficulty because that is why they're CL50. But the fact is that pets are basically a bit of fun, they won't drastically tip the scales in fights because that is the point of the CH. You think that the battle droids are going to look anything like the Droideka you see on Lok with their huge resistances and 8k of HAM? Think again. Non-ch pets are a perk, a bit of fun. They didn't even exist originally at live and things were fine without them. What is the point of the BE profession then? We supply CHs with pets and we support other professions. Infact that is our whole purposes, we're the profession that lifts other professions onto our shoulders to help them become better.
And later, a mount of their own.
Utility, not combat strength, has ALWAYS been the 'design' for non-creature handler pets since they were introduced.
So why are so many people pushing SO HARD for pets that every schmoe can use without any skillpoint expenditure, that make the old CH pets (that caused repeated CH nerfs, and alterations to the entire creature rating system, and helped us get our actually working (more or less) clone engineering skill) look like peasants?
I mean, come on, if a graul mauler at CL35 was too strong, and a core justification of the creature rebalance and the redistribution of CH skills across the tree to prevent too much power coming with too few skill points... why on earth would these earthshaking CL10 pets be ok? Puhlease.
Seshemw wrote:
I have issues with people defending the bugged CL10 and down pets for a simple reason: Non-CH pets were NOT for tanking, ever. They were NOT for killing, ever. They were so the 'common man' could have a fluffy of their own.
And later, a mount of their own.
Utility, not combat strength, has ALWAYS been the 'design' for non-creature handler pets since they were introduced.
So why are so many people pushing SO HARD for pets that every schmoe can use without any skillpoint expenditure, that make the old CH pets (that caused repeated CH nerfs, and alterations to the entire creature rating system, and helped us get our actually working (more or less) clone engineering skill) look like peasants?
I mean, come on, if a graul mauler at CL35 was too strong, and a core justification of the creature rebalance and the redistribution of CH skills across the tree to prevent too much power coming with too few skill points... why on earth would these earthshaking CL10 pets be ok? Puhlease.
Exactly. All I got was flamed for mentioning this...