Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Post-CU Meds They cost HOW MUCH?
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MataHairy
Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:22 am
#1
THIS IS A COPY FROM A POST ON THE DOC FORUM. I WILL BE REPEATING THIS ON THE CM FORUM AS WELL.
I CONSIDER THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO BRING TO THE DEVS ATTENTION.
I CONSIDER THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO BRING TO THE DEVS ATTENTION.
Below is an analysis of the costs for the new meds as currently available on TC (information primarily from Lamronn on swgcraft). The costs of the meds was calculated using the following basis:
Flora & non-organic resources @5 cpu
Herbivore Meat @50 cpu
All other creature resources @100 cpu
These costs are representative of costs on Ahazi for current spawns; costs could be much higher for older resources. The number of charges on the new meds was assumed to be 200 based on the few test results available. For comparison sake, the cost of the current meds are presented as calculated on the same basis.
Please note that these are production costs! Sales costs can be expected to be significantly higher (2-5x).
Doctor
Enhancer Function Total CostCost per charge Comparable Current Med Current Cost per charge
Stabilizer Cure States 11,140 cr 56Cure Blind/Dizzy/Intim/Stun 1230/50 = 25 cr
Nutrient Inj Health Buff18,390 cr 92Health Enhance D5320/30 = 177 cr
Bacta Infusion Heal over time 15,430 cr77n/a
Bacta Jab Improved Heal 14,035cr70Small Stimpack E1680/55 = 31 cr
Endorphin Inj Action Buff14,285 cr 71Action Enhance D4510/30 = 150 cr
Disinfectant Disease Cure 12,785 cr 64 Cure Disease C710/50 = 14 cr
Combat Med
Enhancer FunctionTotal CostCost per ChargeComparable Current MedCurrent Cost per Charge
Bacta Toss Ranged Heal 11,265 cr 56 Ranged Stim D 1600/55 = 29
Bacta Spray Area Heal16,515 cr83 Area Stim C 1690/50 = 34
Neurotoxin Health Poison12,660 cr 63HealthPoisonC1530/45 = 34
Deuterium Toss Fire 18,305 cr 92 Disease?? 2955/45 = 66
Thyroid RuptureSpeed debuff 13,805cr 69n/a
TraumatizeMind Debuff17.680 cr 88n/a
As you can see, in almost all cases (except for health & action buff) the post-CU meds are the same cost per charge or more expensive than the current meds. This should be a concern for the practicing doctor and CM, since the effect of the meds is only expected to be 10-30% improvement on our "innate abilities".
The total cost of a full set of doc or CM meds is almost 100k credits if you craft your own, and probably 400k or more if you purchase from a BE crafter. The devs have said that these meds are expected to last 2 play sessions. Can doctors really afford to spend 200k on weak meds per session, especially in the post-buffing era? Alternatively, they can chose not to purchase meds, which will make the crafting med crafting line in BE about as useful as a chef pre-food revamp!
All in all, the resource requirements need to be decrease. In the follow 2 posts, I present my suggestions for more reasonable crafting schematics.
Message Edited by MataHairy on 04-13-2005 05:39 AM
MataHairy
Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:23 am
#2
Here are my suggestions for cost-effective, revised schematics. The revised schematics have: (1) non-creature resources formost stim enhancers, (2) traditional doc components (ABEC, ALS, ASDS, ACRDM) for medic & doc meds, (3) Cm components for CM meds and mixed for ranged stims(4)roughly half the originalorganic and resources , and (5) more generic creature resources.The costs are MANUFACTURING COSTS caluclated same as before (5 cpu for non-creature, 50 cpu for herb meat and 100 cpu for other creature), which may be on the low estimate side. These are suggestions, that I think give a reasonably priced product.
Doctor Enhancers:
Stabilizer 25 greens, 50 steel, 50 cryst gem, 20 ABEC, 2 ACRDM, 2 ALS Cost =2865 (14 cr/heal)
Nutrient Injection 50 Avian meat, 50 reactive gas, 2 ABEC, 2 ACRDM, 2 ASDS Cost = 7690 (38 cr/buff)
Bacta Infusion 40 meat (type TBD), 100 reactive gas, 2 ABEC, 2 ACRDM, 2 ALS Cost = 8980 (45 cr/buff)
Bacta Jab 50 flora (type TBD), 50 Lokian fiber, 3 ABEC, 3 ACRDM, 3 ALSCost = 3860 (19 cr/heal)
EndorphinInjection 40 Dath avian, 75 methane reactive, 3 ABEC, 3 ACRDM, 3 ASDS Cost = 8035 (40 cr/buff)
Disinfectant 40 meat (TBD), 100 mirth inert gas, 3 ABEC, 3 ACRDM, 3 ALS Cost = 8980 (45 cr/heal)
CM Enhancers:
Bacta Toss 25 fungus, 50 aluminum, 50 fiberplast, 2 ADM, 2 ACRDM, 2 ALS Cost = 3005 (15 cr/heal)
Bacta Spray50 Rori fungus, 50 plubnum iron, 50 dath fiber, 2 ADM, 2 ACRDM, 2 ALS Cost = 3130 (16 cr/heal)
Neurotoxin40 insect meat, 50 colat iron, 100 liquid petrol, 3 ADM, 3 ARC, 3 AIA Cost = 7060 (35 cr/throw)
Deuterium Toss 50 specific insect meat, 100 polymer,50 dylinium ore, 3 ADM,3 ARC, 3 AIA Cost = 8830 (44 cr/throw)
Thyroid Rupture40 meat (TBD), 100 Radioactive, 75 Kammris iron, 3 ADM, 3 ARC, 3 AIACost = 8955 (45 cr/throw)
Traumatize40 meat (TBD), 75 mythra copper, 100 radioactive, 3 ADM, 3 ARC, 3 AIA Cost = 8944 (45 cr/throw)
Personally, I think this would be a decent balance between cost and benefit. With these forulas, or similar ones, the heals would be cheapest for the PVE'ers and the buffs and debuffs for the PVP'ers costing more.
Message Edited by MataHairy on 04-13-2005 12:20 PM
LloydPickering
Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:38 am
#3
whilst the prices of the general resources may be about right, there are some specifics where I don't think even 100cpu would cover the costs. Ill list the excessive resources:
Bacta Infusion Enhancer
75 Talusian Scaley Hide
Bacta Jab Enhancer
75 Milk
Deuterium Toss Enhancer
50 Endorian Mollusk
50 Lok Wild Milk
Disinfectant Enhancer
75 Milk
Thyroid Rupture Enhancer
50 Corellia Crustacean
Traumatize Enhancer
90 Fish
On my server (Chimaera) the milk can be picked up for about 50cpu, but with the increased demand, its gonna skyrocket in price, even so everything else is going to be even MORE of a pain to get. The Talusian Scaley may not look too bad at first...but the list of creatures that drop it is VERY small, and non are over cl20...
Fish are a nightmare to collect in any quantity, and Mollusk/Crustacean can be macro'd, but it doesn't stack...so u need to come back every once in a while to stack, not to mention they are removing recursive macros.
...And thats without mentioning the Smelted Iron requiring a Metal Recycler...
Bacta Infusion Enhancer
75 Talusian Scaley Hide
Bacta Jab Enhancer
75 Milk
Deuterium Toss Enhancer
50 Endorian Mollusk
50 Lok Wild Milk
Disinfectant Enhancer
75 Milk
Thyroid Rupture Enhancer
50 Corellia Crustacean
Traumatize Enhancer
90 Fish
On my server (Chimaera) the milk can be picked up for about 50cpu, but with the increased demand, its gonna skyrocket in price, even so everything else is going to be even MORE of a pain to get. The Talusian Scaley may not look too bad at first...but the list of creatures that drop it is VERY small, and non are over cl20...
Fish are a nightmare to collect in any quantity, and Mollusk/Crustacean can be macro'd, but it doesn't stack...so u need to come back every once in a while to stack, not to mention they are removing recursive macros.
...And thats without mentioning the Smelted Iron requiring a Metal Recycler...
ArthurDentOnBria
Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:56 am
#4
yes, the cost/benefit ratio is definitely a concern here. But again the fact remains that nobody here on this forum, or any other forum, can confirm that ingredients in these schematics due to the bug preventing us from working our way up the skill tree. So to me the source of that information is highly dubious at the moment. My assumption is that it's completely wrong until I see otherwise.
MataHairy
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:19 am
#5
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
yes, the cost/benefit ratio is definitely a concern here. But again the fact remains that nobody here on this forum, or any other forum, can confirm that ingredients in these schematics due to the bug preventing us from working our way up the skill tree. So to me the source of that information is highly dubious at the moment. My assumption is that it's completely wrong until I see otherwise.
I think med crafting is working just fine (although the meds the make arent working, at least they can make them). These people claim to have 10 experimental points in BE med crafting. Here's my sources (sorry I dont do clickies):
http://swgcraft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17447
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=50710
You may need to be a swgcraft member to access the first one.
Message Edited by MataHairy on 04-13-2005 10:19 AM
LloydPickering
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:26 am
#6
MataHairy wrote:
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:yes, the cost/benefit ratio is definitely a concern here. But again the fact remains that nobody here on this forum, or any other forum, can confirm that ingredients in these schematics due to the bug preventing us from working our way up the skill tree. So to me the source of that information is highly dubious at the moment. My assumption is that it's completely wrong until I see otherwise.I think med crafting is working just fine (although the meds the make arent working, at least they can make them). These people claim to have 10 experimental points in BE med crafting. Here's my sources (sorry I dont do clickies):You may need to be a swgcraft member to access the first one.Message Edited by MataHairy on 04-13-2005 10:19 AM
clickyfied...
Dorelli
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:53 am
#7
I agree with the second clicky re: the components used in combat meds.
I do not see how the first poster got the recipes.
This is my current relavent template on EP-TC3:
medic 0004
scout 1040
novice BE 0000
This is the amount of medical crafting xp I have stored up: 114xx (over 11K)
This is the amount of bioengineer crafting xp I have stored up: 0 xp
This is what the NPC BE trainer says to me when I asked to train - and I SHOULD be able to train as the first level takes 10,000 xp:
'sorry you aren't quite at the point where I can teach you anything'.
These new medicines are in the BE line --- no? There are no new meds at novice BE but I will check them. I don't understand how it is possible for someone to know them yet.
I'm with Arthur on this one until someone explains how they got them.
-- Dorelli Deacon - test bunny
Message Edited by Dorelli on 04-13-2005 10:59 AM
LloydPickering
Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:52 pm
#8
Dorelli wrote:I agree with the second clicky re: the components used in combat meds.I do not see how the first poster got the recipes.This is my current relavent template on EP-TC3:medic 0004scout 1040novice BE 0000This is the amount of medical crafting xp I have stored up: 114xx (over 11K)This is the amount of bioengineer crafting xp I have stored up: 0 xpThis is what the NPC BE trainer says to me when I asked to train - and I SHOULD be able to train as the first level takes 10,000 xp:'sorry you aren't quite at the point where I can teach you anything'.These new medicines are in the BE line --- no? There are no new meds at novice BE but I will check them. I don't understand how it is possible for someone to know them yet.I'm with Arthur on this one until someone explains how they got them.-- Dorelli Deacon - test bunnyMessage Edited by Dorelli on 04-13-2005 10:59 AM
I am confident that they used a TRE explorer to pull them out of the .tre files from TC. (The same way people found the new weapons...)
Dorelli
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:02 pm
#9
post deleted by me b/c I felt I was not being nice ... (and not directed at you Lloyd)
-- Dorelli
Message Edited by Dorelli on 04-13-2005 03:24 PM
Rogue1970
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:43 pm
#10
I'm trying to figure out where and how you calculated a cost per use so low?
From what I understand - the CHARGES of finished med products will now be as low as 10% of what it was before.
IE: a 30 Stack is now a 3 stack
Aleskander
Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:46 pm
#11
If you look at the dev tracker, they just cut the requirements for the aromor smiths because of the insane requirements. Hopefully, they'll do something here.
MataHairy
Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:11 pm
#12
Rogue1970 wrote:
I'm trying to figure out where and how you calculated a cost per use so low?
From what I understand - the CHARGES of finished med products will now be as low as 10% of what it was before.
IE: a 30 Stack is now a 3 stack
The new meds according to the testers have significantly more charges, between 150-300 depending on experimentation. I picked 200 as what we might expect as typical. According to the devs, use of the enhancers will improve doc or CM abilities by 10-30%.
EvilSockPuppet
Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:27 pm
#13
"The devs have said that these meds are expected to last 2 play sessions."
How long are 2 play sessions? I mean if 2 play sessions count as 6 hours... then I doubt people would mind paying 15k for a 6 hour buff, even if it is crap. Specially in pvp, buffs may not make such abig difference but they will definitly make a difference when your whole team is buffed.
Think about this. If buffs make you better, people will pay a lot for top of the line. Whether they are 15% or 500%, people will still pay 15k for the best around. Specially if it means being able to hunt for more than 3 hours.
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