Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Functionality: High Ham LVL 10 Tank -vs- Buffed Player Tank
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shargus
Sun May 23, 2004 6:29 am
#1
Ive only been playing and reading the forumssince Januaryso my knowledge of history is a bit limited. What I am trying to "understand" isthe rationale behind the "current" set of high health lvl 10 pets being invalid. I am refering to the 9.0/5.5/3/5 pets with 59% Kinetic. Please don't start flaming me just based on this statement read on.Iagree these pets stats are way outside the bounds of what a wild lvl 10 pets but then againthey are bio-engineered mutations.
/sidenote
Maybe they shouldleavethese be valid pets but put in a sanity check when calling youpet. If it fails your mutated pet attacks you 
/backontrack
Anyways as this posts subject reads from a game play and functional standpoint how are these petsany different than a player with 80% kinetic armor and 3000+ on all their primary and secondary stats buffed tanking for a group. If we look at how these lvl 10 pets are mostly likely used, as defensive tanks because typically their dmg stats are poor,the function appears to be the same. Bet then againthe endurance of thetwo furry friends I can hold as a non-chwillnever match a doctors 3+ hour buffs.
I for one would like the option of fighting unbuffedwith a pet by my side.Personally it addsenjoyment to the game because there'snow realin-game riskwalking around Endor unbuffed with only a weapon and pet to protect me.It certainly keepsmealert and makesmy heart race a bit when a group of mereks appear and agro.Butmy capable lvl 10 pet is there to take the agro whileI escape, down some short durationfoodandturn backto fight. The battles over butmy pets incapped and my stomach is already half full. Suddenlymy plans have changed, my strategyhas to change, it'stime to "think" about what my next move is. Now that's what I call fun.
Hopefully these types ofimblanaces arebeing assessed and fixed by the devsas part of the upcomingcombat rebalance. Only time will tell.
Scotar
NancyJ
Sun May 23, 2004 7:16 am
#2
shargus wrote:/backontrackAnyways as this posts subject reads from a game play and functional standpoint how are these petsany different than a player with 80% kinetic armor and 3000+ on all their primary and secondary stats buffed tanking for a group. If we look at how these lvl 10 pets are mostly likely used, as defensive tanks because typically their dmg stats are poor,the function appears to be the same. Bet then againthe endurance of thetwo furry friends I can hold as a non-chwillnever match a doctors 3+ hour buffs.Scotar
1. Pets can be buffed
2. Players can be buffed AND have 80% Kinetic Armour AND have a pet all at the same time
3. Pets can be healed with the best available stims without any medic skills
4. Using a pet instead of a player tank allows ranged fighters to fire in almost complete safety, gaining the bonus XP from being in a group, without having to share the mission rewards with another player and only losing a small amount of XP from the pet's damage (low damage pet)
5. the current state of equipment in the game is beyond desired limits and is going to be rebalanced.
SkinnerOne
Sun May 23, 2004 7:57 am
#3
Oh :GROAN: Are we now into Re-Balancing?
What's wrong with playing a game by the rules presented?
Kevm
Sun May 23, 2004 8:25 am
#4
shargus wrote:
Anyways as this posts subject reads from a game play and functional standpoint how are these petsany different than a player with 80% kinetic armor and 3000+ on all their primary and secondary stats buffed tanking for a group. If we look at how these lvl 10 pets are mostly likely used, as defensive tanks because typically their dmg stats are poor,the function appears to be the same.
That right there is exactly the problem. With those out of line CL 10 BE pets, you can now effectively have a pet that will have the health and resists of a buffed Player Character. This means, that without spending any skill points at all, you can act like a 2 person group while soloing. That's the problem. Far far too much power without spending any skill points for that power.
NancyJ
Sun May 23, 2004 8:57 am
#5
SkinnerOne wrote:Oh :GROAN: Are we now into Re-Balancing?
What's wrong with playing a game by the rules presented?
What rules?
shargus
Sun May 23, 2004 9:09 am
#6
I don't want to turn this thread into a point-by-point comment and rebutal debate because I feel we would ultimately end up no where.My onlyresponse is I certainly hope the rebalance does not pigeon hole players into one play style because of what youCOULD do (seeitems 1-5)and elminate a players ability toCHOOSE whatever play style they feel makes the game most enjoyable, including the leveraging ofpowerful BEpetsINSTEAD of buffs.
So I guess theresponeto my original post is thatcombat is out of whack in general and the only clear answer in sight is that there will becombat rebalance.
I'm sure details are still under wraps but can you at least tell us ifthe rebalance included consideration of powerful BE pets and how they might be used?
Scotar
shargus
Sun May 23, 2004 9:29 am
#7
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Kevm wrote:
That right there is exactly the problem. With those out of line CL 10 BE pets, you can now effectively have a pet that will have the health and resists of a buffed Player Character. This means, that without spending any skill points at all, you can act like a 2 person group while soloing. That's the problem. Far far too much power without spending any skill points for that power.
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Yes I am a 2 member group while soloing but to what ultimate affect on game play does this power have? Do I really complete missions any faster? (no, these pets don't do almost any damage) Do I harvest any better? (no I take a penalty) Do I get xp faster (yes, but I can do that grouped with a yard trash pet left at the mission terms)
I can get the same level of power from a set of buffs which also does not require any skill points, just some credits.
As stated the belief by devs is combat is out of balance and these lvl 10 pets, although still craftable, are considered taboo while other imbalances are still acceptable.
NancyJ
Sun May 23, 2004 9:49 am
#8
BE pets are nothing to do with the combat balance. They are not being 'balanced' they are the product of bugs in the system and will be fixed. (eventually )
)
dulee
Sun May 23, 2004 4:12 pm
#9
I agree with fishbrains on this one. It's all very well saying it's bugged, but why is nothing being done to rectify the situation with some hint of urgency? And what is the definition of a bugged pet? If 10k ham, 58% kinetic isconsidered to be bugged, what about 8k ham, 50% kinetic, or 5k ham, 30% kinetic, or how aboutCL14, 12k ham,60% kinetic, orCL26, 12k ham, 60% kinetic light armor?I think you see what I'm getting at...it shouldn't be for us to decide what is within the boundaries of acceptability. That is the job of the pet creation process designed by the game developers.
Sure, a non-CH with one of these CL10 pets is a force to be reckoned with, but then so is a low levelcreature handlerwith a CL26,12k ham, 60% kinetic,light armor petthat does greater damage than the non-CH pet. And a high levelcreature handlerwith 2 of these pets is even more powerful. When you look at these three situations, the non-CH's advantage isn't as clear.
Like every true crafter, bioengineers want to create the best pets possible. Making mediocre pets that don't push things to the limit is against the principles of every true crafter, but is this what we aresupposedto dountil SOE decides to actually rectify things? I wouldn't bet on anything happening soon. There are so many issues in the game that can be considered imbalanced or not as intended that has yet to be fixed.
fishbrains
Mon May 24, 2004 12:01 am
#10
NancyJ wrote:
BE pets are nothing to do with the combat balance. They are not being 'balanced' they are the product of bugs in the system and will be fixed. (eventually
Without CLEAR DOCUMENTATION of the CL system it is unfair to catogorize these pets as bugs. Were such a forumla presented then such a catigorisation could be made. Pet checks are an UNACCEPTABLE stop gap measure in the CL10 pet problem. Untill the pet crafting code is refined and we are given the ability to see the CL in the genetic template as we experiment then I don't feel bad about any possibly 'bugged' pet.
Message Edited by fishbrains on 05-23-2004 12:01 PM
Kevm
Mon May 24, 2004 12:09 am
#11
fishbrains wrote:
NancyJ wrote:
BE pets are nothing to do with the combat balance. They are not being 'balanced' they are the product of bugs in the system and will be fixed. (eventually
Without CLEAR DOCUMENTATION of the CL system it is unfair to catogorize these pets as bugs. Were such a forumla presented then such a catigorisation could be made. Pet checks are an UNACCEPTABLE stop gap measure in the CL10 pet problem. Untill the pet crafting code is refined and we are given the ability to see the CL in the genetic template as we experiment then I don't feel bad about any possibly 'bugged' pet.
Message Edited by fishbrains on 05-23-2004 12:01 PM
Why do I picture as you someone with their eyes closed, hands over their ears, going 'LA LA LA LA I can't hear you!!"?
fishbrains
Mon May 24, 2004 12:12 am
#12
Kevm wrote:
fishbrains wrote:
NancyJ wrote:
BE pets are nothing to do with the combat balance. They are not being 'balanced' they are the product of bugs in the system and will be fixed. (eventually
Without CLEAR DOCUMENTATION of the CL system it is unfair to catogorize these pets as bugs. Were such a forumla presented then such a catigorisation could be made. Pet checks are an UNACCEPTABLE stop gap measure in the CL10 pet problem. Untill the pet crafting code is refined and we are given the ability to see the CL in the genetic template as we experiment then I don't feel bad about any possibly 'bugged' pet.
Message Edited by fishbrains on 05-23-2004 12:01 PM
Why do I picture as you someone with their eyes closed, hands over their ears, going 'LA LA LA LA I can't hear you!!"?
What was that? I had my hands over my eyes and could not read all of your post.
Seriously, I'm not advocating the making of godly 60% kinetic 10k HAM cl10 pets. I'm just more than a little frustrated at the knee-jerk reaction the devs have to BE pet crafting. As TH wrote 'it's not an exact science'. Hence, if this 'unexact science' makes a 7k HAM, 30% kinetic pet good for that person.
NancyJ
Mon May 24, 2004 12:16 am
#13
fishbrains wrote:
NancyJ wrote:
BE pets are nothing to do with the combat balance. They are not being 'balanced' they are the product of bugs in the system and will be fixed. (eventually
Without CLEAR DOCUMENTATION of the CL system it is unfair to catogorize these pets as bugs. Were such a forumla presented then such a catigorisation could be made. Pet checks are an UNACCEPTABLE stop gap measure in the CL10 pet problem. Untill the pet crafting code is refined and we are given the ability to see the CL in the genetic template as we experiment then I don't feel bad about any possibly 'bugged' pet.Message Edited by fishbrains on 05-23-2004 12:01 PM
They are bugged, we all know they're bugged. We dont need even fuzzy coffee stained documentation about the CL system to know that they are bugged because we have been told that the system is bugged and creating pets that are bugged.
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