Bio Engineer Archive

ok, hear me out, here is my dilema. as i was talking to a fellow MBE today, we began to discuss the current price of our services, and this was the outcome.

now this is just on my server, i do not know the status on other servers.

for example, we make BSN and sell them to a chef for lets say 40k a crate. he turns around and makes brandy, which i believe is a 1:1 ratio, and for every crate that we charged him 40k, he turns around and sells it for 150-200k depending on the market and stats of the brandy.

how can this be?? how can we who supply the chefs with what they need, make such a big profit when there items would not sell for half of that if our addetives were not involved?? that is 100k markup on our price. yeah yeah they have to pay for resouces and what not. but so do we.

this is what im askin, that we as a whole unite and raise the prices. let us eat a bigger piece of the pie, that we so rightfully deserve.

i ask that u sign ur name to this petition.

Yanini Avalixious

Master Bio-Engineer

Tranquility, Naboo

Ahazi

Well I've just stopped making BSN's.

There's no point now on Chilastra,

Hyperinflation in the meat and flora market means that breakeven cost of crates of good(87+)BSN's is 40-50K a crate (that's what I'd get for selling the resources to make them). At that price there are no chefs buying them,

And the resources are easier to sell.

Ironically this isn't hitting the food market however - many chefs now seem to be BE/Chef's or have an alt with BE.

It does rather freeze out the independant Bio Engineer from the addative market though.

Gully Foyle
All SOE game accounts cancelled - and this time I'm gone for good

You are taking exactly one item in the chef line up and saying that is the standard price, which is wrong. Brandy is a high selling item, but not the highest and not the one that sells the most items. Not sure what the pricing is on your server, but on mine I am seeing brandy go for 120k a crate. My stuff is some of the best out there, so it is still holding its price at 200k. However if my stats go down just a little, I'll have to drop the price to compete. Ahrisa is the highest selling item, 3:1 to brandy for me at least. I sell it for 80k a crate. My +1k HAM food at 50% fill goes for 250k a crate. There is a big range on food and prices. I wouldn't assume that there is a single price basedoff a single itemthat chefs get from that crate of additives you have. There is an average price off all items sold by the chef, which varies from chef to chef due to current market price and what they offer and how much of each item they sell. For me it seems to be around 100k a crate, for example.

Keep in mind also that some of that price goes for the merchant abilities of the chef. To get people to buy your food requires a lot of customers. Just because you put it on your vendor doesn't mean someone is going to buy it. BEs have it easy as you only need a small hand full of customers to sell too. So there is a mark up for just being able to sell the stuff, which does require work.Since you are dealing with large numbers of customers at this point, you have the community involvement aspect, unless you are a spamer, but I won't rant on about that. The community involvement usually requires donation of prizes for events. Helping to pay for city maintanence that you sell your goods in, be it taking some off the top to cover sales tax or making straight donations.

On top of that you have skill tapes and varied resources you need to harvest. The BE additives are pretty easy to do, meat and flora, any kind work. That isn't the case with food unless you only make brandy. Having done both I can tell you the easiest part of the process is the additive. The making of the food and the distributing of the food is much harder to do. Yet at an average price 100k a crate, the BE side takes in 40%. Not bad for a single line exp item with 2 -3 no name ingredients that you only have to sell to 2 or 3 different people.

For price, it is simple. Take your cost of resources and then double that price. That is your final price. So if it takes 20k in resoruces to make one crate you can sell it for 40k a crate, you are doing pretty good. Then the chef gets his additives, resources, trim, ect.. and then doubles that price. Some times the market price for things is higher than that, like brandy, most of the time you may not even get that much, like Ahrisa. As long as it all averages out you should do well with enough profit to keep yourself going and cover any business costs like a factory going poof, maintanence, city donations/community involvement, expansion of business, travel fair, ect... Sotake canape thatI sale at 100k a crate, if I pay 40k for the additive, then another 10k for the resources for the canape my final price would be 100k. So your 40k price in that case is right in line with what you should recieve.

The real crime is when a chef pays 25k for crate and then is able to sell it at 120k end product average. The BE is only getting around 20% then, at that is a problem. However your numbersseem pretty perfect to me and you are recieving your fair share. The only problem is you are assuming some things that are just not the case.

- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
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A lot of people seem to forget that we are WHOLESALERS. Our final product has no use to the general public. It is the chefs that turn our product into viable products that are desirable to the customer base. A lot of chefs have to go out on whims and take a chance to earn money in their profession.

When I started BE again I had a queue of chefs looking for additives, in fact I was almost in a position where I could charge any price I wanted and still get sales (first batch of +86s went for 1.9m). My friend, on the other hand, has just started chef. He is having a rough time starting out, he has to spend a lot of money on additives and can't afford to buy old spawns of resources which has resulted in brandy which he is selling for 2.5k a bottle. It's still pretty decent stuff (+406/37m/49f/19u I think) but none the less he is finding it hard to turn a profit. My point is, in our profession we are almost guranteed sales because of our line of work - if the person is business smart. BE seems to drop in and out of flavour of the month and its interesting because I check BE vendors I am always seeing half empty crates of +73s etc. If you are good at what you do then you will suceed, there is always a market for it.

If the market is flooded with cheap substitutes which are below your costs then it looks like you're going to have to do what many companies do and start downsizing your operation. Go back to 1 or 2 factories and gather some meat yourself. Advertise on your galaxy forums and send mails to regular chefs - you gotta get yourself out there. If you can't stay afloat then you're going to have to do with the other companies do and just pack it in until the market stablises.

I let supply and demand be my guide to pricing. Regardless of what chefs are making off the tissues I make my general feeling is that any plans to price fix or significantly raise prices will just result in more alts. But thats just my 2cents. As long as I turn a profit I'm happy.

Looks at BE forum revolving schedule, well just wrapping up heated debate on NON CH pets(though didn't have forum regular quit this time) so yes it's time for the Chef tissue pricing debate now.

On the plus side not allot of undercutting BE's in the Bria galaxy this time around.

Joilhath Master Creature Handler/Master Bio Engineer
Joilhoth Master Artisan/Master Tailor/Master Chef
Oskiss Master Tera Kasi Artist/Master Doctor
Owner and Operator of Pets Needs (-6141, -915) Corellia in Pax Gallatica Mall

Nice summation Arthur .

Also some good comments from chefs about the dynamics of the thing - but interestingly no one commented on thesituation I currently havewhich I suspect is becoming more widespread:

In that situation there is no way I can "cut costs" since it's market demand (ironically primarily driven by chefs) that is raising resource price and how I most profitably dispose of the resources (I gather them all myself these days).

Gully Foyle
All SOE game accounts cancelled - and this time I'm gone for good

---

Nyria's BioShop
-51 -5732 Tatooine
200m South of Anchorhead

Nyria - Farstar

Nice recaps

Just my situation and I'm on Corbantis server. I haven't sold publically chef tissues for a few weeks now as meat reources are through the roof. Docs are paying 100 CPU for carnivore meat now, not exactly sure what they need it for, if its the resist buffs or if they are getting it to have chefs make bivoli. Don't know, don't care what they are using it for but the reality of the results of the situation I do care aboutfor it has drasticaly changed things for me. Let's set one thing straight, I maybe accussed of being mean but I outright refuse to make schematics for chefs or anyone else for my BE tissues, so that one is just not going to happen.Back to the problem for in order to get meat I have to harvest it myself (can't afford to make tissues paying 100 cpu) and I don't have many points left after BE, Exp 4, and merchant though I am now dropping partof merchant so that I can increase my hunting abilitties. But why would I harvest all that meat spend all that time hunting down the flora I need then running my factories to make the tissues, having chefs tell me I'm too expensive (26k on BSNs) when I can sell the meat alone that it takes to make that crate for 50k?not sure what the solution is..... for me I believe I'm going to start raising my prices and just see what happens. You can't stop ppl for offering ludicrous prices for resources and you can't blame people for selling there time and effort to the highest bidder. I know the BE/Chefs and the multiple account can present problems but even they will have the same problem collecting resources or they will be paying the high prices themselves so I don't know if that is entirely the problem. Obviously if someone is going to sell schematics that can be a problem as well but again there is no sales police running around to keep any of that from happening.

I have decided over the past couple days facing some of the simliar problems (as already alluded to) with the current economic mechanics present on Corbantis that, since I'm the one putting in the effort, time and sometimes even work (LOL) I will decide what prices I sell my products for not some Chef and if they don't like it they can find another BE. But you know when those vendors are getting low and they can't find someone with tissues they might become more flexible then you think

Just my thoughts use them as you will

Oasis

NVC Technologies

(Corbantis Server) -2140, -3540 outside Besatine on Tatoonie

For a moment, I thought I was force sensitive when I felt the glow.... then I realized someone just peed in the pool.

Meat prices are going through the roof because it is no fun hunting, and us scouts/rangers are spending a lot more time finding, and receiving, good prices. Subsequently, I demand high price for my carn/avian/insect meatbecause A) I can get it B) it is extremely tedious to hunt certain creatures.

For example, right now on Kettemoor Coreillian Insect meat is up to 50 cpu, because shooting butterflies at 6-9 units per kill (maybe one defender/warrior at 25 units per lair) is on par with slow torture, and I've been telling/personal emailing every BE/Chef/DoctorI can find in game, on the forums here, on the forums at swgcraft and similar sites.

The ingame economy does not handle the time associated costs of resource gathering very well. I'm not, nor have I ever been a crafter, so I will try to not make generalizations, but it takes me 2-3 hours to gather 5-10K of starter planet spawns. Someone is gonna pay for that. How long does it take you as a crafter to process that material and put it up for sale?

IMO, I have found that supplying one or two steady CHef clients with tissues much more appealing. I give them regular orders of tissues at a set price and I recieve a crate or two of the final product as well. Works for me. I make a pretty penny and have an unlimited supply of food and beverage.

Dalmartynn (MCH/MBE/RM)
Dalynn (MS/MF/TKA)
MAJ, RA
NAE, Commanding

Nancy,

I think you give them a bit too much credit actually. The thing is, we saw the same chef/be pricingtensions long before there were chef peer-to-peer pricing pressures. Back in the first couple of months when the new chef revamp happened, people could expect to pay upwards of 500k/crate for brandy on Bria (even has high as 650k/crate in fact), but the pricing picture for BE's was just as bleak back then as it is now. I really think there is a much more fundamental "we get the cake, they get the crumbs" type of attitude at work here that is independent of peer pricing pressures, although nowadays that certainly comes into the picture more.

ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%

Can't blame you for selling your meat for the most you can get out if it, your time and energy are certainly worth it. I don't believe anyone is trying to pin blame on scouts you are simply making the most of your skills and abilities. The problem is that BEs are in a squeeze for the resources have become expensive as we haver become much more in dircet compitition with docs and chefsand chefs will do nothing but complain about our prices being to high as it is and find everyway they can think of to circumvent us to get the most profit out of their product. Right or wrong in them doing that is not the issue. the question is how does the BE take the product to market and make profit doing so and right now I find my scout abilities more profitable then my BE tissue abilities. Again for what I can get out of a crate of BSNs I can sell the meat it takes to make them and cut all the rest of the time and cost and make twice as much money simply selling the meat I would use to make the tissues to the docs for whatever purpose they have for it.

I believe the problem may be best explain this way. Our resources are going into a component, a wholesale item whereas for docs they are going into a retail product. hence they have biger profit margins to work with and can simply pay more for the resources not to mention they actually need less of the product then we do to make their packs. But anyway there's not a lot you can do about it either way. Its just a situation to which each BE has to decide what is best for him/her. Maybe in some love to the profession we will get some additional use for our other tissues or maybe some additional craftable items and that will allow those who can't seem to competet in the chef tissue market other avenues to be a successful BE, time will tell.