Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Any Point to the 19 evasions?
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Joilhath
Wed May 26, 2004 9:00 pm
#1
Well I think the subject says how I feel about the answer to our question, almost feel like a little kid getting told to go away your bothering us. I could rant on but am just curious how others feel about our "answer"
Joilhath
Wed May 26, 2004 10:26 pm
#3
I did and I agree with Kevie's orginal take and Fishbrains' it's a sorry we don't know enough about our own code to recreate the problem could you please do what we're getting paid to do. It's an answer and we might eventually get it fixed after we provide them with the information but just sits VERY wrong with me.
I think part of it was all the other answers as well though honestly. If they're pulling all the Live DEVs to JTL then hire some more already. I am so tired of the wait untill after Oct answer.
Message Edited by Joilhath on 05-27-2004 10:37 AM
Templar1865
Thu May 27, 2004 1:16 pm
#4
"sorry we don't know enough about our own code to recreate the problem could you please do what we're getting paid to do."
Here here.
C'mon. The recipes for these overpowered critters are all over this forum. Jump on TC or any of the live servers with a MBE, grab the DNA, and just make one. The only reason I can see for them being unable to recreate the problem is for them to be too busy with jedi and JTL to sit down for ten minutes with a real character and run it. If that's the case, SOE should dip into the multi-million dollar monthly income from subscriptions and hire more programmer/devs.
Really, that's the big reason for the 19 Evasions. The second reason sounds like a communication issue--the big-picture people don't know enough about the down-in-the-weeds details to effectively coordinate a group effort to make changes and fixes.
After nearly a year of being live, these folks should have a pretty excellent idea of what will unbalance the game and what won't. I don't care how much the SW license costs from LA, with the current number of subscribers, there's no reason why SOE couldn't beef up the dev/prog team so that progress on the core game doesn't come to a grinding halt every time there's a big revision or an expansion. If they continue down this road, the community is going to end up dreading expansions instead of eagerly anticipating them. SOE announces SWG: The Outer Rim (chock full of new planets, three new races, new ships/vehicles, clone skins, etc.) and the entire community puts their accounts on hold till the developers can get done with it.
IMO, submitting questions to TH is, at this point, irrelevant if it comes to any sort of change/idea for additions/improvements. If you want to ask him what he had for breakfast, I'm sure he'd be very straightforward. Ask some SWG history/trivia questions and we'll be happier.
Kevm
Thu May 27, 2004 1:44 pm
#5
hmm I guess nobody remembers the fact that the reason we keep hearing 'after JTL' is because the development schedule has been mapped out until JTL's release. It has nothing to do with 'all the devs are working on the expansion'. They've been working on JTL this entire time and we've gotten bug fixes, the BE revamp, the Chef revamp, Image Designer revamp, player cities, mounts, vehicles, Geo Caves, the Corvette, the DWB, the Jedi changes, etc. as well as the things coming between now and the release of JTL.
Once again, the reason is not because all the devs are working on JTL (because they are not). The reason is any additional development work has to come after what is already planned.
For a review of what's happening between now and JTL for those of you who need it:
Publish #9: Secrets of the Force
- Complete overhaul of the Jedi system
- Character Transfer System
- Hermit Quest fixes
- Smuggler revamp
- Player City Missions
Mini Publish 9.1
- Wookiee Armor 2 & 3
- Additional Chat Channels
- Mini Publish 9.2
- Crafting/ Entertainer Quests
- Merchant: Remove Empty Vendors from Planetary Map
Publish #10: The Jedi Trials
- Complete overhaul of the path to becoming Force Sensitive
- Combat Balance: A major overhaul to the combat system and balances of our game.
- Squad Leader Revamp
Mini Publish 10.1
Top CS/ QA/ Correspondents' issues
Mini Publish 10.2
- Hutt Casino: This is a major Social Adventure geared towards Dancers, Musicians, and fast-talking Smugglers. It is also going to be a great place just to hang out. It was moved from Publish 9 to Publish 10 because our art resources will be cranking on Space during that time. Believe me, it will be worth the wait!
Publish #11: The Galactic Civil War
- Complete overhaul of the Galactic Civil War system
Kevie
Thu May 27, 2004 2:15 pm
#6
i never said it was a really evasive answer, just asking for opinions......
the answer as a whole seemed okay with me actually after nancy explained it.... they at least are trying to fix it...... i just don't like how they avoided the part where we asked if we could manually check our own pets before putting them up for sale
i would rather have that then sitting around forever for them to figure out what's wrong with the system
Seiryuu
Thu May 27, 2004 8:19 pm
#7
hmm I guess nobody remembers the fact that the reason we keep hearing 'after JTL' is because the development schedule has been mapped out until JTL's release. It has nothing to do with 'all the devs are working on the expansion'. They've been working on JTL this entire time and we've gotten bug fixes, the BE revamp, the Chef revamp, Image Designer revamp, player cities, mounts, vehicles, Geo Caves, the Corvette, the DWB, the Jedi changes, etc. as well as the things coming between now and the release of JTL.
Once again, the reason is not because all the devs are working on JTL (because they are not). The reason is any additional development work has to come after what is already planned.
The devs that did player cities, vehicles and mounts are now on JTL. They had not ramped up fully by then.
The smuggler revamp was pushed back to Publish 10 because they could not fit it in to 9. Why? Because they did not have the man-power.
Keladrin who is heading up the Jedi revamp was the same one that did the BE, Chef and Image Designer changes, and I am sure others. (Was he responsible for droids as well? Probably since that was a patch between the others.)
Ood_Banar is the only other we know for sure is still working on the core game. At least two of TH's responses to the last 19 questions was that the dev was now working on JTL. There is a skeleton crew on the core game and it has been showing for quite a while now.
As for the Geo Caves, the Corvette and the Death Watch Bunker? A total waste of effort considering the other problems this game is having. Great. 1% of the player base gets new content while we let everyone else flounder.
The reason any additional development work has to come after what is already planned is because they planned poorly, have stripped the core team and refuse to hire more people.
Once again, the reason is not because all the devs are working on JTL (because they are not). The reason is any additional development work has to come after what is already planned.
The devs that did player cities, vehicles and mounts are now on JTL. They had not ramped up fully by then.
The smuggler revamp was pushed back to Publish 10 because they could not fit it in to 9. Why? Because they did not have the man-power.
Keladrin who is heading up the Jedi revamp was the same one that did the BE, Chef and Image Designer changes, and I am sure others. (Was he responsible for droids as well? Probably since that was a patch between the others.)
Ood_Banar is the only other we know for sure is still working on the core game. At least two of TH's responses to the last 19 questions was that the dev was now working on JTL. There is a skeleton crew on the core game and it has been showing for quite a while now.
As for the Geo Caves, the Corvette and the Death Watch Bunker? A total waste of effort considering the other problems this game is having. Great. 1% of the player base gets new content while we let everyone else flounder.
The reason any additional development work has to come after what is already planned is because they planned poorly, have stripped the core team and refuse to hire more people.
NancyJ
Thu May 27, 2004 11:48 pm
#8
Seiryuu wrote:
The smuggler revamp was pushed back to Publish 10 because they could not fit it in to 9. >
The smuggler revamp was pushed back because the smugglers were not happy with the proposed changes, the design changes suggested were a tweak not a revamp. The whole has to go back to the drawing board.
As for all the devs working on the space expansion, jedi revamp, combat balance etc that doesnt mean that bugs arent still being fixed - this is a bug, not a new feature.
However its not going to get fixed if we sit on our behinds or stamp our feet and cry and refused to help because its their job to fix it.
If we all have that attitude then yes, we will have to wait till after the space expansion etc, until a point where the developers feel they can devote a significant amount of human resources to finding the problem. And even then, without any experimental data its going to be very hard - what you're basically asking them to do is spend time that they could be working on coding to go play a BE long enough to find repeatable recipes. With all the possible combinations of DNA out there thats going to be a long job, and it will be a long time before they can devote that much attention to a bug that affects such a small percentage of the player base.
If however we can come up with a list of repeatable invalid recipes then the job of testing the recipes out and finding the problem becomes a much smaller one and we're more likely that they can spare some time to investigate.
Joilhath
Fri May 28, 2004 7:21 am
#9
NancyJ wrote:
However its not going to get fixed if we sit on our behinds or stamp our feet and cry and refused to help because its their job to fix it.
Never said anything about not providing the information just that I wasn't happy with the answer especially in the context of all the other answers. I do feel they are rather understaffed and not providing good service for the core game, since they keep saying sorry that dev is now working on JTL
Albion_DeCrappa
Fri May 28, 2004 8:26 am
#10
to be too busy with jedi and JTL
I think you've hit it right on the head! Put your effort into where the money is. They know they have to get JTL done by christmas, otherwise they're going to lose a lot of potential customers to the vaporware hole. So they are putting nearly everything they have into completing it. My guess is that they are behind schedule for a November released. I mean November is only 6 months away and they haven't even begun beta testing it yet. Hellmost softwareproducts go through at least a year of Beta before they even go to release candidate much less release, and SOE hasn't even chosen the "TC Veteran" beta testers yet. I know what it tells me, what does it tell you?
Albion_DeCrappa
Fri May 28, 2004 9:15 am
#11
what you're basically asking them to do is spend time that they could be working on coding to go play a BE long enough to find repeatable recipes.
Come on, this is a game, albeit a complex one, but shouldn't it work as intended without the player based spending it's time doing the job of the manufacturer? Sure I'll report a bug when I see it, but I am not going to bug test, if I wanted to do that I'd go to Test Center and play. I want to have fun, and in that I mean not having to worry about getting frustrated, irritated, or stressed because I have to figure out why something doesn't work as it was intended by the manufacturer.
Let me ask you this. What if the manufacturer recalled your car because the steering system wasn't working. When you got your car back, not only was the steering system more broken then before but now the blinkers no longer worked. What would you do? Would you rip the dash board apart to try to figure out why the blinkers were no longer working? Would you put the car up on jacks to check the steering system so you could inform the mechanic about what waswrong?
Could you imagine what would happen if you heard this from an auto manufacturer... "Sorry, we know the radio in your car doesn't work but it's not a game breaking bug, we'll get to it when we finish designing the new model year." Could you imagine the holy hell that would be raised?!?
When when you purchase a car you expect it to work as intended with all the options that you paid for. When it needs repairs because of malfunctions you expect those repairs to be completed correctly. And, when you get that car back from those repairs you expect everything else to work as it did before. There are no questions about this because every single one of you who owns a new car knows what they would do in this situation. Letters would be written, calls would be made, and heads would be rolling.
Yes I know cars are more expensive then SWG, but you could use any physical appliance as an example. If it didn't function properly we'd raise holy hell. We defiantly wouldn't rip apart the appliance or waste our time troubleshooting it to figure out what was wrong, would we?
So no, I am not going to waste myentertainment time working for SOE just as I wouldn't waste it working for Honda diagnosing problems with my own car.. I am going to tell SOE what's wrong and expect it to be fix in a timely and proper fashion
.
Kevm
Fri May 28, 2004 9:16 am
#12
Albion_DeCrappa wrote:
What if the manufacturer recalled your car because the steering system wasn't working.
Wow...it didn't take long for the completely inaccurate 'car annalogy' got used.
Talthazar
Fri May 28, 2004 9:31 am
#13
Kevm wrote:
Albion_DeCrappa wrote:
What if the manufacturer recalled your car because the steering system wasn't working.
Wow...it didn't take long for the completely inaccurate 'car annalogy' got used.
I agree, the far more accurate example is going to the doctor. If you go to the doctor and say it hurts, he's going to have a hard time finding out what's wrong with you. Tell him your arm hurts and you've at least narrowed it down so he can concentrate on where the problem is.
How many of us were clueless there even was a problem until someone came on and posted their kamurith results? One or two guy's happened to stumble on a combo that wasn't right and then others found other combos. Their QA could sit there trying combo after combo until one of them stumbles on one that fits the criteria for locating the problem... or we could tell em where it hurts.
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