Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Any Point to the 19 evasions?
NancyJ
Fri May 28, 2004 9:53 am
#14
Keeping with the car analogy - if your car wasnt quite working right but the mechanic said he wouldnt have time to look at it unless you drove it to the garage - what would you do?
Kevm
Fri May 28, 2004 10:38 am
#15
Seiryuu wrote:
The core game has been stripped of devs and programmers to its detriment. That is all I am stating. Regardless of anyone's views on design decisions, priorities or biases, that much is a fact.
I'd really like to know where ppl are getting this information. We have been told that the Live team and the JTL team are different teams. The only infromation that been stated by the devs is that the UI devs and the City Dev have been transfered to the JTL team. There are still Live devs working on the core game otherwise all the changes that are in and are planned to go in between now and JTL wouldn't be happening.
The reason we see the 'not until after JTL' is because the dev plan has been made up to JTL and there isn't room to add more dev time.
Unless someone points me to a post showing someone saying 'this or that dev can't work on this profession since he's on JTL' (other than UI and the City dev)I think this is all idle specualation and conspiracy theories.
Devero
Fri May 28, 2004 11:05 am
#16
/yawn...
They'll fix it when they are bored doing all the nifty, neato, glitzy stuff. This is a data dump analysis and not many programmers like to dig in the weeds.
What percentage of players are BEs anyway? And I mean more than 2 hours at Master level (e.g, holo grinders)?
That answer will tell you where we are on the pecking order. Yep.. right above... hmm.. Nope.. can't say ID anymore. Hmm.. ok.. Right above.. Nope.. Chef is cool... hmmm... OK.. right above Ranger? hmmm.. Maybe not.
/gives up and waits for the 3rd qtr of '07.
Kevm
Fri May 28, 2004 1:04 pm
#17
Albion_DeCrappa wrote:
I fail to see how those two things are not analogous.
I fail to see why you keep using the tired over-used (and completely wrong) car analogy.
And the fact that you mentioned that BE was 'fixed' before the revamp makes me wonder what you consider 'fixed'.
Plus, in no way has SOE stated 'we wont fix this until you tell us what's wrong'. Our correspondent has simply stated that they are having a hard time reproducing it. Now, given that fact you have two options. You can either help by giving them as much info you can. Or you can sit there, refuse to do anything, and continue to **edit** that its not getting fixed fast enough for you.
I think we all know the option you've chosen.
Talthazar
Fri May 28, 2004 2:43 pm
#18
Albion_DeCrappa wrote:
Keeping with the car analogy - if your car wasnt quite working right but the mechanic said he wouldnt have time to look at it unless you drove it to the garage - what would you do?
My car wasfunctioningproperly before the manufacturer"fixed" it. Now because of faulty workmanship my car is no longer working correctly. Not only that, themanufacturerexpects me to figure out what's wrong with the car because his time is being occupied by the design of next years model.
My game wasfunctioningproperly before the manufacturer (SOE)"fixed" it. Now because of faulty programming (making it so weCOULD craft invalid pets in the first place) my game in no longer working properly. Not only that, the manufacturer (SOE) expects me to figure out what's wrong with the game because his time is being occupied by the design of JTL.
I fail to see how those two things are not analogous.Neither next years modelnorJTL benefit thecurrentconsumer without spending more money. Whether or not JTL or next years model come out, the consumer is still going to have a broken product. And now, the consumerhas to figure out what is wrong with hisproduct because the manufacturers time is occupied by something that issuperfluous to the currently releasedproduct? Shouldn't they be making sure what is currently released to the public works properly before they work on something that's 6 months from being released?
Wow. You know, I drove the BE car before the cloning revamp, and I would hardly call having 2 clones people wanted as something other than furniture working properly.
Whoever told you that Keldarin was working on JTL is misinformed. Various posts have him associated with the Jediand Combat revamps. He's not busy designing next years car, he's busy trying to fix other parts of the car. Look at the design path set out for the next few publishes.
Work on SWG has not stopped to work on JTL, it's moved on to Jedi, combat and GCW. Meanwhile, Droids and Image Designers have gotten some love, throughout it all, many bugs have been fixed. Many believe a lack of content is one of the things broken with the car, so some time has been devoted to fixing this as well. All while other teams work on JTL. Like it or not, BE's are not the only drivers andsome time has to be spent on the other drivers as well. As soon as the problem can be pinpointed it will get fixed, complaining about it will not get it fixed any faster.
DialUp
Fri May 28, 2004 5:15 pm
#19
All they need to do is take a known invalid formula and step through the code line by line. After doing this a few times, the errors usually become clear...
I can assure you this is something any of their, more competent, programmers could do in an afternoon.
And for all you future programmers who are going to try to shoot holes in this statement - 99.9% of all small algorithms (small meaning a page or two) can be thoroughly dissassembled in an afternoon. Upon a complete "step through" dissassembly, you will know everything about the logic and flow of the algorithm. With that knowledge, one can recommend speed improvements and find any and all flaws. YES, ANY AND ALL FLAWS DISCOVERED is INDUSTRY STANDARD!!
Anybody who thinks this situation is any different because it is a mmorpg has no clue what programming is really about. Programming is about manipulating bits. The fact that the outcome is an online game makes no difference to the underlying code. All of these problems are related to algorithms, not mmorpg...
The problem here is twofold. Very poor planning and implementation and there appears to be no full time employee dissassembling bugged code. Add these problems onto very poor customer service and satisfaction policy, and you have what we have today...
SOE needs to hire one or two guys for a three month contract to fix all their core bugs. It is as easy as that.
Seiryuu
Fri May 28, 2004 9:14 pm
#20
Whoever told you that Keldarin was working on JTL is misinformed. Various posts have him associated with the Jedi and Combat revamps.
Not sure where you got that from Tal. I'm the only one that has mentioned him and I specifically said he was still working on the core game, handling the Jedi revamp as well as many others prior to this.
Work on SWG has not stopped to work on JTL, it's moved on to Jedi, combat and GCW.
No one has said this either. We have said much of its focus has shifted. There are still some devs solely dedicated to it, but not as many as before.
I'd really like to know where ppl are getting this information. We have been told that the Live team and the JTL team are different teams. The only infromation that been stated by the devs is that the UI devs and the City Dev have been transfered to the JTL team. There are still Live devs working on the core game otherwise all the changes that are in and are planned to go in between now and JTL wouldn't be happening.
Of course they are different teams. That does not preclude taking people from one team and placing them on the other. As for where we are getting the information, bits and pieces have been posted. I follow every dev post, many correspondent posts, and I look for names when they are published (on and off site) because I like to understand the business. As a programmer and hobbiest game designer, this stuff intrigues me as much as, if not more than, the game itself.
Much of the original team has shifted. It has been said if you pay attention. They need those people on JTL and they did not materialize out of nowhwere. It makes perfect sense from a business and development standpoint with limited resources when space needs to be in the game. It is simply the nature of the project.
Why is the stuff going to be addressed after JTL? Because those team members will be freed-up. They can then focus where ever Gary needs them to.
Not sure where you got that from Tal. I'm the only one that has mentioned him and I specifically said he was still working on the core game, handling the Jedi revamp as well as many others prior to this.
Work on SWG has not stopped to work on JTL, it's moved on to Jedi, combat and GCW.
No one has said this either. We have said much of its focus has shifted. There are still some devs solely dedicated to it, but not as many as before.
I'd really like to know where ppl are getting this information. We have been told that the Live team and the JTL team are different teams. The only infromation that been stated by the devs is that the UI devs and the City Dev have been transfered to the JTL team. There are still Live devs working on the core game otherwise all the changes that are in and are planned to go in between now and JTL wouldn't be happening.
Of course they are different teams. That does not preclude taking people from one team and placing them on the other. As for where we are getting the information, bits and pieces have been posted. I follow every dev post, many correspondent posts, and I look for names when they are published (on and off site) because I like to understand the business. As a programmer and hobbiest game designer, this stuff intrigues me as much as, if not more than, the game itself.
Much of the original team has shifted. It has been said if you pay attention. They need those people on JTL and they did not materialize out of nowhwere. It makes perfect sense from a business and development standpoint with limited resources when space needs to be in the game. It is simply the nature of the project.
Why is the stuff going to be addressed after JTL? Because those team members will be freed-up. They can then focus where ever Gary needs them to.
Kevm
Fri May 28, 2004 10:38 pm
#21
Seiryuu wrote:
Much of the original team has shifted. It has been said if you pay attention.
Actually I read every Dev post as well as many correspondent posts too. So since you seem to think you are paying attention more than anyone else, please post links here to where its been said that much of the original team has been shifted. unless by 'original team' you mean the dev team pre-launch not the post-launch live dev team.
Otherwise admit its nothing but speculation.
NancyJ
Fri May 28, 2004 10:59 pm
#22
All this talk of devs only working on JTL amuses me, the devs have been working on JTL the whole time this game has been out and longer. They were working on it in beta, they were working on it pre-beta. JTL isnt really an expansion, it is core gameplay that should have been in the release but there was no way it was going to be done in time so very early on they announced that they would have a space expansion. How many MMO's announce their first expansion before releasing the game?
As for stepping through the code with a known invalid formula - why do you tihnk I'm asking for known invalid forumlas? If they cant find a repeatable invalid formula that works 100% guarenteed on their internal systems then they could step through the code till kingdom come and it wouldnt help.
There are many more professions in the game and many more bugs that need fixing, there are more bugs than there are devs so if we want to convince them to turn their attentions to our problems then we need to help ourselves before they can help us.
The more information we can give them the more likely it is that the it will be looked at seriously and the sooner it will get fixed.
Albion_DeCrappa
Sat May 29, 2004 12:11 am
#23
Keeping with the car analogy - if your car wasnt quite working right but the mechanic said he wouldnt have time to look at it unless you drove it to the garage - what would you do?
My car wasfunctioningproperly before the manufacturer"fixed" it. Now because of faulty workmanship my car is no longer working correctly. Not only that, themanufacturerexpects me to figure out what's wrong with the car because his time is being occupied by the design of next years model.
My game wasfunctioningproperly before the manufacturer (SOE)"fixed" it. Now because of faulty programming (making it so weCOULD craft invalid pets in the first place) my game in no longer working properly. Not only that, the manufacturer (SOE) expects me to figure out what's wrong with the game because his time is being occupied by the design of JTL.
I fail to see how those two things are not analogous.Neither next years modelnorJTL benefit thecurrentconsumer without spending more money. Whether or not JTL or next years model come out, the consumer is still going to have a broken product. And now, the consumerhas to figure out what is wrong with hisproduct because the manufacturers time is occupied by something that issuperfluous to the currently releasedproduct? Shouldn't they be making sure what is currently released to the public works properly before they work on something that's 6 months from being released?
Chaalan
Sat May 29, 2004 2:17 am
#24
NancyJ, happy to help try and work out whats causing this bug... But there's one problem I found when I sat down to do this. And no, I don't intend to be flippant or rude at all, just a serious question...
Whats Invalid?
I assume 10k H, 6k A, 4k M, 60% Kin is... but what else? I mean are they looking for ones that get the Invalid Pet Code? If so, these beasts dont qualify. If they aren't, what are they looking for? As I said, I don't mean it in a rude way, or as a critiscism, seriously! I just dont know where to start looking in my recepie book... do I stop at a certain level or what?
And I think the problem is, we're not supposed to know limits (which is what I agree with). So what do we do? Is there any chance we can get a post, even a stickie with what we should be looking for, and I'll be happy to start sending recepies in asap!
Thanks,
Chaalan
NancyJ
Sat May 29, 2004 3:17 am
#25
Overpowered pets and invlaid pets are 2 separate issues really.
The invalid pets issue is that some newly crafted pets are being flagged invalid when tamed (or at any point during their growth cycle)
This shouldnt happen. The formula used to calculate a pets level is the same as is used to determine validity - so in theory this should problem should never occur. But it does - obviously there is a bug somewhere along the line. So we need a collection of reliable invalid pet recipes, so that the devs can reproduce them and find the cause of the bug.
This can happen at any level of pet but seems to be more frequent in the lower end pets.
As for the overpowered CL 10s, thats a slightly different issue. These are combinations that produce unexpected results and get through the validity check.
The invalid pets issue is that some newly crafted pets are being flagged invalid when tamed (or at any point during their growth cycle)
This shouldnt happen. The formula used to calculate a pets level is the same as is used to determine validity - so in theory this should problem should never occur. But it does - obviously there is a bug somewhere along the line. So we need a collection of reliable invalid pet recipes, so that the devs can reproduce them and find the cause of the bug.
This can happen at any level of pet but seems to be more frequent in the lower end pets.
As for the overpowered CL 10s, thats a slightly different issue. These are combinations that produce unexpected results and get through the validity check.
Chaalan
Sat May 29, 2004 4:37 am
#26
OK, thats great. I understand now...
I'll get to work asap and see what I can find to see if there's any recepies that cause it.
Chaalan