Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: DNA recipie I know I shouldn't ask
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Miffy
Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:20 pm
#1
I have a requirement to make this pet:- Low CL creature - lvl 25 - 30 with 60 Kinetic resist and high Energy 40 + with high hams. I have tried this many times but the lowest I can get is lvl 33, with 59 K and 37 E, I think it might have had armour aswell.
I used Bark mite burrower and Mantrigue reaper Dna. I then resampled and used BMB dna again. Idid do this quite a few times yet I couldn't get the CL low enough.
I know we all play our recipies close to our chest but if anyone has a recipie their willing to share I would be most grateful.
Thanks
Seraphym14
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:54 am
#2
This thread probably has something you can use. I know I probably have something similar in my recipe sheets but they are at home:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=37583
P.S. Is there any way to get the recipe thread stickied? It's a nice resource for beginning BE's to learn base formulas and demonstrate where specials, resists actually do move over. Every time I refer them to it, it's several pages back.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=37583
P.S. Is there any way to get the recipe thread stickied? It's a nice resource for beginning BE's to learn base formulas and demonstrate where specials, resists actually do move over. Every time I refer them to it, it's several pages back.
Akelan
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:52 am
#3
You've set the requirements too high to meet for that CL, so you are pretty much doomed to fail at it.
Energy resist is "valued" very high in the CL calculations; twice what Kinetic is counted for and 8 times what any other resist is worth. If you want 60% Kinetic, and 40% or so Energy, you probably will not be able to exceed about 5k health in a 5/2.5/1.2K HAM pet, and getting armor at that low a health is VERY difficult, since the hardiness will have to be well below the fortitude to get it.
Dropping armor from the mix lowers the CL by about 8, but that still leaves you a very difficult target.
At CL 23, I average 9500 health, 5000 action and 3500 mind, light armor, 60% kinetic and vulnerable to most others if I want a reasonable damage/speed/to-hit mix. You might pick up some room for energy resists by dropping the damage and especially keeping the cleverness and courage scores low, so that the DPS of the pet drops a lot, but the trade-off there would be a LOT of damage for a little Energy resist.
Doing some figuring with the formula, if you try for about 550 hardiness, 250 dex, 120 mind, and keep the fortitude below 500 so you do not get armor, you could manage 40% kinetic and 30% energy at that level if you have all other resists vulnerable and keep the cleverness, courage, and fierceness all well below 100, and the power no more than 150 or so maximum. That will give you about a 9k/4k/3.5k HAM , no armor, and all the fighting prowess of a mammoth gnort, but closer to the resists you were seeking.
LLan
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:36 am
#4
I don't think these requirements are reasonable either. It would be difficult to achieve this at CL 35, much less 25. But with bugs in the CL calculation, who knows, all things are probably possible, lol.
Anyhow, if it were me, I'd tell the customer that I can either make a pet with those type of resists and no armor, or armor with high kinetic, and either way the dps will be below 10.
If you are really intent on pulling this off, and take the requirements litterally, then what you should be looking for is dna that stacks with bmb and mant reaper to give you vulnerabilities to everything except kinetic and energy. 5xbmb and reaper isn't going to cut it. Off the top of my head I know that there are some thunes that have this type of resist profile. Then you could generationally sample this and see how low you can bring the dps down. But I think this is more of an academic project than a useful one, as what good is it really to bust your butt to give something resists to energy but vuln to every other type of ranged damage? Either way it's going to get torn to shreds in a gun fight.
Miffy wrote:
I have a requirement to make this pet:- Low CL creature - lvl 25 - 30 with 60 Kinetic resist and high Energy 40 + with high hams. I have tried this many times but the lowest I can get is lvl 33, with 59 K and 37 E, I think it might have had armour aswell.
I used Bark mite burrower and Mantrigue reaper Dna. I then resampled and used BMB dna again. Idid do this quite a few times yet I couldn't get the CL low enough.
I know we all play our recipies close to our chest but if anyone has a recipie their willing to share I would be most grateful.
Thanks
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 06-14-2004 10:38 AM
Cephalo
Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:40 am
#5
Yeah, be careful on how much effort you spend making a 'PvP' pet. Most customer's don't realize that all pet's are pretty much useless in PvP. I had a guy give me a million credits to spend two weeks making an absolute monster of a pet with no vulnerabilities. It was as good a pet as can be made I think, it had a little bit of everything from mutant rancor to huurton pup DNA and went down to about 10 generations. .66 to hit 600 or so damage, 59 kin 55 energy 90 heat(can't remember what else, the lowest was 3 electricity from FG dna). I asked him a week later how he liked it and found he had given up CH in disgust! I felt bad, even though I worked my butt off.
Centurion
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:14 am
#6
Well you've heard from pretty much every BE expert we have, Tiki, Akelan/Llan and Arthur so I'd take them at their word.
Akelan
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:42 am
#7
There's a lot more that are worth listening to, but I think the concensus will be that this pet is a serious challenge to a very well experienced master BE, and probably out of the range that most would even seriously attempt. The combination of stats desired simply is too demanding for the level, and the customer will be very unwilling to accept the tradeoffs that make the combination even remotely possible.
My best advice - cut your losses, explain that the stats they are asking for are too high to get them all in that CL, and see if they are willing to settle for less of one or the other stat to get it to a more workable possibility. If not, you have a good indication that they will not be happy even if you succeed at the letter of their request, and it will not be worth your time as a "learning experience". 
LLan
joined42904
Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:27 am
#8
I probably shouldn't ask and I'll probably just get one-starred into oblivion on this forum again since I'm not a BE. I'm a BE customer though and I want to ask if my request to dublicate two cat pets someone else posted that they had is "too hard" or not easily workable. And it seems that this thread has attracted the attention of the true masters of BE.
I'm posting this because I don't want to be any kind of unreasonable customer. Here are the pets someone posted that they had...and I was asking for level 34/level 35 ish pairs with total CL no greater than 69 in twins:
Someone in another thread posted that they currently had cat pets like these:
i have two cats one is lvl 37 the other is lvl 33
LVL 37 LVL 33
100/100 98/100
H - 12k H - 11k
A - 10.5k A - 8.7k
M - 9.7k M - 9.8k
light armor light armor
resists
60% Kin. 60% Kin
40% energy 40% energy
3% blast 4% acid
4% acid 76% stun
76% stun
speed 2.26 speed 2.33
to hit .29 to hit .29
dmg 270-280 dmg 290-300
stunning strike stunning strike
strong poison strong poison
Damage isn't very high. But the specials are nice and the resists are likewise nice. Energy resist is particularly nice in PvE so it comes as no surprise to me that it is valued highly in determining creature level.
Please help me be a good customer and tell me whether asking for pets like the level 33 one is in the "totally unreasonable" category.
Akelan
Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:55 am
#9
Both of those are exceptional pets, and could be duplicated by a very skilled BE, but it would take some work, and likely some experimentation.
As for the assessment of the damage, 280-300 is very reasonable at that level, more than half of what a CL 55-60 is likely to do with a good resist profile and HAM. Remember that you are looking at exceptional damage absorbtion capabilities in these two, and the trade-off equations are Durability/Damage/CL, so you will expect a lower DPS in trying to keep the Durability high without raising the CL. A tank is not really there to do a lot of damage, but to take it, while you or others do the damage from out of the enemy's reach. These pets are admirably suited to being tanks, with the health/armor/resists.
40% Energy resist is quite high to get along with a 60% Kinetic, and at this level, not too easy to come by, but it is possible. Personally, I would probably aim for the 7-8K range at most in the action and mind pool, and use that as "working room" on the resists without jacking up the CL. You might squeak in some more damage, or a little higher to-hit percentage that way. I would happily trade 100 points of damage for about a .25 bump in the to-hit percentage, as landing 25%more of that damage would help a lot, as the fights are less likely to be drawn out, and the sooner you can stop someone from shooting at you, the better.
The whole subject of pets as PvP tools is debatable, with armor piercing weapon bonuses and attacks on the action and mind pools being common, but if you were going to use pets in PvP, these would not be too bad to start with. I might look for Intimidation, and possibly disease, as poison cures are more common, as far as specials, but stun is good as well. The one thing I would do is have these made in "tiny" skins - a bearded jax, kima or other very small, and because of that, more difficult to target and easier to overlook, creature. It is a small advantage, but any advantage is worth having if it does not have too bad a disadvantage linked to it.
LLan
joined42904
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:18 am
#10
LLan,
Thank you so much for giving me an answer.
And for not 1-starring me the way my last post was treated when I came here asking for pets on Kauri that I couldn't see a BE listed for in the shop list. (I found Alkrin though who is great )I was not complaining at all about the damage output on the pets. My comment about the damage being "low" was only to note that it was in the area of what ought to be appropriate for its CL and should be doable.
I asked for this in cat templates, which ought to be somewhat small and allow me to target creatures readily in PvE.
I did ask that the pets be white in color. Because in most other professions the white is easy to put on. Is color an issue fora BE?
GotharMarath
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:26 am
#11
Closest I came to what you are looking for while I was BEwas a CL26 with Armor 51Kin, 45Ene and 3 Stun 240Dmg with 10.5K/7.5K/4K HAM, so at least that good is possible......Gooooo toooo Dannnntooooineeeeee young BE........
Akelan
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:29 am
#12
We can manage an off-white or light grey on a Kima or a Jax, not many others come out anything resembling white, and nothing comes out "polar bear" white, unfortunately, and the same goes for black, though we can do a deep enough blue on a bantha to pass for it.
Something unique you might look at if you like the skin is what I call a "ghost" Narglatch. They take the lightest blue-white and come out a very unique looking, rather ghostly, pale blue with a whitish detail. As a unique looking pet, that is one of the most striking colorations I have as yet discovered.
I wish we could do better, at least on the fur-bearing varieties; it would seem like a pretty reasonable thing on the surface, but our colors are more a 'wash' over the base colors of the model we select, and the effectiveness of selecting a color really varies widely with the skin we use.
Talthazar has an excellent web page, bioengineer.talthazar.com, that has a "clone list" which shows the creatures we can make, and in most cases the color pallette we can use on them. The distinctness of the base model colors makes the "wash" more or less effective, but at least you can see what we can work with by using his site.
LLan
Seraphym14
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:32 am
#13
As a rule, I do not do special pets at all. If I am so inclined, it is due to wanting to expand my own ideas of what I consider limitations in the BE craft. Never do I give any indication that I can or will provide said animal. I tell the person that I will contact them in one week with my assessment.
Normally, a couple of days of research online and in the field, gives me enough statistical data and dna that I will have a strong indication of where and what I can achieve.
I referred the original poster to the recipe thread to look for something "similar".
99.9% of the time, the customer gives the BE all the "wish list" stats that they see on a high end wild animal.
90% of the time, the BE can turn around and say "We trade HAM for resists, we trade resists for level, we trade our souls for educated guesses - here's what I have a good chance of giving you - x, y, z stats".
95% of the time, the customer is thrilled with what the BE says they can do.
My point is, similar is a strong negotiator. Customers often do not have a real idea of what BE's can or cannot do, just like most players do not have any really strong clues as to how other complex classes work. Whatever you do, do not be afraid to say "No, I cannot do that" or "No, I will not do that because it will be invalid". If a customer asks for something that makes your stomach clinch up, you know you are already in over your head. It's not going to kill your future business to say "Sorry, ask someone else". Give yourself time to feel relative confidence and don't ever let yourself feel railroaded.
/bows
Normally, a couple of days of research online and in the field, gives me enough statistical data and dna that I will have a strong indication of where and what I can achieve.
I referred the original poster to the recipe thread to look for something "similar".
99.9% of the time, the customer gives the BE all the "wish list" stats that they see on a high end wild animal.
90% of the time, the BE can turn around and say "We trade HAM for resists, we trade resists for level, we trade our souls for educated guesses - here's what I have a good chance of giving you - x, y, z stats".
95% of the time, the customer is thrilled with what the BE says they can do.
My point is, similar is a strong negotiator. Customers often do not have a real idea of what BE's can or cannot do, just like most players do not have any really strong clues as to how other complex classes work. Whatever you do, do not be afraid to say "No, I cannot do that" or "No, I will not do that because it will be invalid". If a customer asks for something that makes your stomach clinch up, you know you are already in over your head. It's not going to kill your future business to say "Sorry, ask someone else". Give yourself time to feel relative confidence and don't ever let yourself feel railroaded.
/bows
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