Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: To the Devs on ill legit Non CH pets...
Page 1 of 6
Kellindell
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:42 pm
#1
I was just informed about this whole situation after dropping 800k on 4 of these uber pets which apprentley are not kosher anymore.
I just want to say something about this if i may.
First off, i hope you plan on reimbursing people for these, since its not thier fault.
second off, if its known these pets are bugged, why can BE's continue to make them?
And why arent they taken from the game, or BE's at least given a range of stats that are ok, even if game schematics wont stop something better.
IE tell be's until we can fix it we are warning you all level ten pets with better then X stats are going to be changed...
third, i hope that when these pets power do get reduced they get brought down to the absolute max your allowing for a level ten pet, and not some random averaged number.
And here is the most important part...
Why isnt this made common knowledge? I am a non BE who barely has time to view the boards on my own proffesions and im supposed to be able to come here and read every post to know about this?
How is that fair?
How is it fair krayt weapons can exist and one guy with a good rifle can KS a group of 10 (even with uber creatures to boot) but a non CH cant have a 10k HAM gnort?
How is it fair that all these BEs are preying on the unknowing to make 200k off a damn pet that they know is going to be changed?
i really hope that you take a lot of considerations on the not guilty in this situation (IE the customer) when you downgrade all these pets. I stand to lose 800k which is the better part of my characters entire savings cause im not a l33t d00d. But these pets were so great i didnt want the opp to pass me by.
And now, because i try to do something smart for in the long, i have no money and eventually im going to get screwed by it.
Just my thoughts.
Bracci
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:30 pm
#2
Kellindell wrote:I was just informed about this whole situation after dropping 800k on 4 of these uber pets which apprentley are not kosher anymore.I just want to say something about this if i may.First off, i hope you plan on reimbursing people for these, since its not thier fault.second off, if its known these pets are bugged, why can BE's continue to make them?And why arent they taken from the game, or BE's at least given a range of stats that are ok, even if game schematics wont stop something better.IE tell be's until we can fix it we are warning you all level ten pets with better then X stats are going to be changed...third, i hope that when these pets power do get reduced they get brought down to the absolute max your allowing for a level ten pet, and not some random averaged number.And here is the most important part...Why isnt this made common knowledge? I am a non BE who barely has time to view the boards on my own proffesions and im supposed to be able to come here and read every post to know about this?How is that fair?How is it fair krayt weapons can exist and one guy with a good rifle can KS a group of 10 (even with uber creatures to boot) but a non CH cant have a 10k HAM gnort?How is it fair that all these BEs are preying on the unknowing to make 200k off a damn pet that they know is going to be changed?i really hope that you take a lot of considerations on the not guilty in this situation (IE the customer) when you downgrade all these pets. I stand to lose 800k which is the better part of my characters entire savings cause im not a l33t d00d. But these pets were so great i didnt want the opp to pass me by.And now, because i try to do something smart for in the long, i have no money and eventually im going to get screwed by it.Just my thoughts.
1. Every B-E that I know that makes the "uber" pets warns their customers that the pet might get nerfed at any time.
2. Actually when you consider it, 200k isn't that much. Consider this: On my server, you pay at least 30k PER PIECE of armor. When you figure 9 pieces of armor, that's 270k. Considering the fact that the pet is not going to be nerfed until the next patch (at the earliest), and I don't know about you but I go through a suit of armor every week, and for some reason, every time I try to repair it it gets negative condition. Therefore, the pet's earning potential far outweighs the investment in armor, and is less than it.
3. As far as "common knowledge", what do you want them to do? Make a loading screen that says "Hey - BEs can make pets that we really think are overpowered, but we're to incompetent to fix it, so please don't buy/sell them!"?
4. I personally have bitched about the pre-nerf weapons existing and pre-nerf pets not. It's a double standard, I agree. But it's one we have to deal with.
5. They will not nerf your pet to "random average stats". They will nerf it to what a wild CL10 is (at least, that's what they've done in the past) which is pretty much worthless.
6. They won't give us "stats that are ok" since they DON'T KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS. The only person who does know is working on the jedi revamp (or was it JTLS?) and says that there should be no way for us to make either the uber pets or the "invalid" pets that get nerfed on call.
7. Your post took a rather adversarial tone towards BEs in general. I suggest next time you take a step back and chill before you go into another profession's forums ranting. I'm sure this post will get some flames (unless NancyJ puts them out first), and I for one am trying my damnest not to flame right now.
Message Edited by Bracci on 06-14-2004 11:31 PM
MIstWolf_
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:32 pm
#3
Yeah, it's rough that this isn't common knowledge. 
It is even uncommon enough that I have run into BE's who don't know about it, so don't immidiately jump to the malice assumption. Though it likely is, I would talk to the BE in question and try to work out some kind of refund. If he didn't know about it, he may be open to some kind of reimbursement. If he did, he'll laugh and snicker and you could try /report'ing him as a scammer using known exploits or something.
All in all though, even though I am a newb, I apologise for my classmate.
Kuuu
It is even uncommon enough that I have run into BE's who don't know about it, so don't immidiately jump to the malice assumption. Though it likely is, I would talk to the BE in question and try to work out some kind of refund. If he didn't know about it, he may be open to some kind of reimbursement. If he did, he'll laugh and snicker and you could try /report'ing him as a scammer using known exploits or something.All in all though, even though I am a newb, I apologise for my classmate.
Kuuu
NancyJ
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:50 pm
#4
It IS common knowledge for BE's that frequent the forums, if people dont read the forums then how are they supposed to get this information?
The devs have only known about these pets for about 2 weeks and are working on the Jedi revamp right now (which still needs major work)
You have so little time for reading the forums, but you have time to come here and post this?
Next time you consider buying something that anyone with a drop of common sense should know isnt legit then perhaps a few minutes of research might have saved you 800k
As for them not being kosher any more - they've never been 'kosher'. They are so far beyond obviously being bugged.
Wild cl 10 pets have 1800 HAM max and no resists - that should have been the first clue that something wasnt right.
The devs have only known about these pets for about 2 weeks and are working on the Jedi revamp right now (which still needs major work)
You have so little time for reading the forums, but you have time to come here and post this?
Next time you consider buying something that anyone with a drop of common sense should know isnt legit then perhaps a few minutes of research might have saved you 800k
As for them not being kosher any more - they've never been 'kosher'. They are so far beyond obviously being bugged.
Wild cl 10 pets have 1800 HAM max and no resists - that should have been the first clue that something wasnt right.
NancyJ
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:29 am
#5
Bracci wrote:
BTW - Nancy - you said 1800 HAM max - is that H+A+M or all three are 1800? Just curious as my bol (wild tamed) is CL10 with 2700 H+A+M (and I'll have to check on resists). The fact is though, we have been told that we can make something SUPERIOR to a wild CL10. I've heard tell that we should be able to make a CL10 that has the stats of a wild CL15. So what would that make the stats be? A cowardly Gurreck or a Bantha?
Also, the statement that CL10 cannot have any resistances can be combatted with The Hermit Spider Guard. I know it's not much of a resist, but it does prove that they *can* have some...
Do a search on SWGCreatures.com for CL 10 and less, sort by HAM descending - you'll find the highest HAM of a CL wild creature is 1800 (and it has no babies) the next below that is 1300 on each pool (not H+A+M)
Yes we should be able to make superior pets to wild ones and yes there is a HUGE grey area surrounding what is acceptable or not - HOWEVER the CL 10's with 10K HAM and 60% kinetic resists are not in that grey area - they are quite firmly at the extreme end of the scale and it should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about creatures that we should not be making pets with the stats of a CL 30 and putting it into a CL10.
I never in any way said that CL 10s cant have resistances. What I said was that the CL 10 with the highest HAM has no resistances.
dulee
Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:59 am
#6
One of the problems is that it is still possible to create powerful non-ch pets despite previousattempts by the devs to fix things. As far as I am aware, no time estimate has been given as to when the next attempt at fixing things will occur....it could be in six months time for all we know.
Anotherproblem isthat we simply do not know what is an acceptable non-ch pet. The most commonly referred to pet with 10K ham and 60% kinetic resist has been confirmed as not intended and will be fixed but opinions to the validity of other combinations is just pure speculation at the moment. For example, a CL10 with 8k ham and 50% kinetic resist is significantly weaker and so is a CL9 with 7k ham and 30% kinetic resist. Will they be valid after the next fix? Who knows? But in the meantime, there is still a strong demand for non-CH pets and any decent BE that chooses to sell these pets wouldinform customers of the current situation.
It's the responsibility of the devs to ensure that all pets created are valid, not bioengineers. Just like any other crafter, we will always try to push things to the limit and make the best possible pets. You can't blame us for that, anymore than you can blame armorsmiths for making 80% composite and docs for making buffs that enhance stats by thousands. I have given the examples of armorsmiths and docs becasue the devs have said that the high resistances on armor and the ability to enhance stats by thousands was not originally intended and this will be rebalanced. But have armorsmiths and docs haven't stopped making these items in the meantime? So why should BEs be expected to stop making powerful pets?
Cindal
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:48 am
#7
NancyJ wrote:
It IS common knowledge for BE's that frequent the forums, if people dont read the forums then how are they supposed to get this information?
The devs have only known about these pets for about 2 weeks and are working on the Jedi revamp right now (which still needs major work)
You have so little time for reading the forums, but you have time to come here and post this?
Next time you consider buying something that anyone with a drop of common sense should know isnt legit then perhaps a few minutes of research might have saved you 800k
As for them not being kosher any more - they've never been 'kosher'. They are so far beyond obviously being bugged.
Wild cl 10 pets have 1800 HAM max and no resists - that should have been the first clue that something wasnt right.
Excuse me but how is it that the devs have only known about these pets for 2 wks? We have been posting about pet nerfing as far back as I can find. LOL - I'vehad 1100 HAM with 30-40 damage nerfed when called - the nerfing is random from what I've seen in the pets I've made - I had to identical stat non-ch pets that I sold one was nerfed and one wasn't - all the stats were the same - the pet type was the same - the dna all came from the same 2 creatures. I don't make "Uber" non-ch pets - just try to make decent pets around 1k HAM which will hopefully not be nerfed.
Since I've been reading the BE forums I've seen little response from SOE other than what has been posted re: pets in the state of the game message.
Heck I'm as angry as the original poster. I love sampling and I love my babies but it looks as if we will be relegated to making tailor and chef enhancements only - our credibility is shot as far as making pets goes.
Kevm
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:56 am
#8
Cindal wrote:
Excuse me but how is it that the devs have only known about these pets for 2 wks?
It was about 2 weeks ago that NancyJ posted a responce from Kel saying he wasn't aware that the monster CL 10 with 10K HAM and 50%+ resists were still possible.
Cindal
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:59 am
#9
Kevm wrote:
Cindal wrote:
Excuse me but how is it that the devs have only known about these pets for 2 wks?
It was about 2 weeks ago that NancyJ posted a responce from Kel saying he wasn't aware that the monster CL 10 with 10K HAM and 50%+ resists were still possible.
Thanks I missed that post. Still - it's been here and reported prior to NancyJ. Guess we aren't important enough compared to JTL and Jedi revamp.
Akelan
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:09 am
#10
Nancy, I have to chide you a bit on this one - you mention "the devs have only known about these pets for 2 weeks" in the same breath with chiding someone for not reading the forums, yet the discussions on these pets and the pet check problem is at least 3 months old now. The simple truth is that the priorities have been set and that SOE really is not particularly concerned with the BE pet issue, and would not even have mentioned it by this point if we as a community had not pushed the issue ourselves. The pet-check code alone is at least 2+ months old now, so the idea that the devs have only known about it for 2 weeks seems a little weak. You also make the case that wildcl 10's have 1800 ham and no resists - yet they have 1800 in all 3 stats and any pet we create with the same stats is more than likely to get nerfed under the current code. We need to be a bit more honest about the severity and the duration of this issue, and the fact that it is not getting the attention that would fix it, for whatever reason.
Part of the issue is also another game system, the vendors themselves, and the difficulty for a BE in particular to have one.
The vendor system offers VERY little means of passing on information about the pets. Unless you place a disclaimer on every item you put on the vendor, as an individual description, which will be almost universally ignored, or come up with some way to describe a creature and still say that it will be nerfed in the future by the game mechanics/devs in that 50 or so characters, there is next to nothing that can be used to convey this.
As for the initial poster - You purchased 4 non-CH pets? You do know, I assume, by now at least that you can use 2 pets at a time as a non-ch, one of which can be "active". If not, reading the holochron on pets, or looking at your skills screen might have given you a clue, or discussing it with the CH that trained the pets for you, as a non-Ch cannot train them so you must have at least talked to someone aware of the issue. Clues are available in a box by the door, please take a couple of extra to help you on your next purchase.
As it stands, both the initial post and the reply from Nancy seem to each be a little lacking in the facts - One went out, uninformed, and bought something that will outlast the armor, weapons or anything else they currently have, which will enable them to outperform by several orders of magnitude the skills they have without the pets, and complains that they will not be permanant, justifying it in terms of the fact that other things are wrong too, so this must be acceptable. The other was a little less than open about the nature and depth of the problem, even given the constraints on their ability to paint in anything but the most favorable terms anything to do with SOE that being the correspondent must have, whether declared or more subtly implied. (The primary reason I did not apply for the correspondent post myself was the unspoken requirement of unconditional support for SOE, despite the problems.)
The simple facts are that the problem is longstanding, if only recently admitted in public, and the resources to provide the fix necessary are devoted to other things at present, so the problem is tacitly being allowed to continue to affect the game, both for the BE and for our customers, while the information on it is not overly well disseminated. The other side of these same facts is that the poster went out, bough a brace of "uber" weapons without any research or effort on his part to determine whether or not these were in any way unusual, and then is doing nothing but whining about his decision having potential consequences, that boil down to nothing but the indication that he will loose the toys at some unspecified time in the future.
This is a problem, and we are all, BEs and customers, left to deal with it because SOE is too busy creating new ones for us to fix the ones we already have .The best advice I can offer is "live with it"; for the forseeable future we have very little other effective choice.
.The best advice I can offer is "live with it"; for the forseeable future we have very little other effective choice.LLan
Message Edited by Akelan on 06-15-2004 05:14 AM
Devero
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:30 am
#11
Cindal wrote:
Kevm wrote:
Cindal wrote:
Excuse me but how is it that the devs have only known about these pets for 2 wks?
It was about 2 weeks ago that NancyJ posted a responce from Kel saying he wasn't aware that the monster CL 10 with 10K HAM and 50%+ resists were still possible.
Thanks I missed that post. Still - it's been here and reported prior to NancyJ. Guess we aren't important enough compared to JTL and Jedi revamp.
Hmmm.. we're here already paying our monthly dues.
New customers and existing players will spend mega $$ to buy the space expansion.. hmmm.
Yep. We are not very significant in terms of SOE revenue at this point in time. And if all the BE's ni SWG suddenly bailed, that would amount to what percentage of players? My guess is about 1%.
Potential loss due to BE's bailing: 1% loss.
Percent gain due to JLT intro: 10-20% gain.
Devero
Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:12 am
#12
NancyJ wrote:
It IS common knowledge for BE's that frequent the forums, if people dont read the forums then how are they supposed to get this information?
The devs have only known about these pets for about 2 weeks and are working on the Jedi revamp right now (which still needs major work)
You have so little time for reading the forums, but you have time to come here and post this?
Next time you consider buying something that anyone with a drop of common sense should know isnt legit then perhaps a few minutes of research might have saved you 800k
As for them not being kosher any more - they've never been 'kosher'. They are so far beyond obviously being bugged.
Wild cl 10 pets have 1800 HAM max and no resists - that should have been the first clue that something wasnt right.
Think before posting. If you're tempted to flame please walk away from the thread and do not post until you are in a more calm frame of mind.
If you cant think of anything nice to say then dont post at all Ofcourse disagreements and statements of opinion are allowed but not if it means flaming another forum user.
(quotedfrom NancyJ)
===================================================
Cephalo
Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:14 am
#13
I have a question, do these new super pets stay that way through the whole growth cycle? or did someone maybe not wait before posting a successful cl10. They usually don't get the nerf until fully grown.
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