Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: CL based damage mitigation suggestions
I respecced by main toon away from MBE and changed my alt from Chef to MBE. His current template is MBE/MArt/Merch 3/0/1/4 1 sp left.
Ive finally decided to wander out sampling today (CL17). After about 20 incaps and 4 deaths I gave up. I really doubt the devs understand the BE's requirement to go out and mix it with dangerous mobs, they can't do or they wouldnt have dsigned the CL damage multiplier as is.
I posted all these during CU Beta, but I suppose Ill repost just in case any Dev takes any notice
1. we generally sample alone (mask scent breaks, no aggro needed etc) - groups arent any help, in fact they hinder
2. we have to sample high level agressive mobs. at CL17 they can 1 shot you.
3, Our skill point sink (including the hidden exploration reqmt) leaves little sp left to get an elite combat profession if you have a serious shop to run (Merchant sp reqmt)
4. We dont get a health bonus. Double whammy with the CL damage multiplier eh guys?
the devs (in their wisdom) have stated we wont get a CL increase..so what else could they do?
how about (and these are only suggestions, flames not needed)
1. Give BEs a Mask scent bonus (Rangers will hate this)
2. Give BEs a paralyse skill (which has a chance to para a mob for 3 or 4 secs unitl we can get away)
3. remove the skill point requirement for Merchant vendors (Merchants will hate this)
4. Give BEs a Burst run bonus
all these skills need to be granted at MBE to make the Master box worth something again.
as it stands Im soooooo tempted to drop MBE, but I cant. Im just hanging in hoping theyll throw us a bone
any other suggestions we could ask Lamm to put to the devs?
Message Edited by Blueblooded on 07-16-2005 12:18 PM
the devsunderstandbut they just dont care. they dont seemto be very flexible at all butill give advice on what i do to sample dangerous creatures,which i know probablywont help much.
the first thing is, being grouped. i group with the highest level i can find, even if the person is afk. some folks doing grind groups let me in while i go to another planet to sample dna.also make sure you wear your armor.
use foods, pets or droids.the foods im taking about are ruby bliel and parwan cakes.you need to be ready to run at all times if you want to avoid death so you never want to be caught recovering from a pastburst run. the ruby bliel is so you can chain heals as you run away with bacta shot and stims if need be. the last thing is to use pets or droidsand set them on guard soif you are aggroedthey will attack the creature as you run awayenabling you to get away safely.
these methods above arent without flaw but they work pretty well. i am not against giving the BE more ways to survive out there but the ppl with the power, aka the devs, want the game to get away from the solo nature, that seems to include BE. with that said, the single most effective way to sample dna that i have found is with lvl 80 friends. if something aggros, they kill it, you live, you move on.
Blue, I was exactly where you were about 2 weeks ago in spirit. I have nothing but a {{{ hug }}} for you. Why not work on getting Bluer up to speed on Wanderhomeso you don't HAVE to give up BE even if you give up BE?
Dor ...
scouts/rangers can't trap... tailors/AS can't craft enhanced items... there is a long list right now, and I'll keep our issues on the radar (note: the sticky hasn't been updated simply because nothing substantive has changed since June). I'll be sticking it out, if only because I'm the Bio Engineer correspondent and it'd look a little odd for me to leave the profession (also, I'm stubborn. very, very stubborn).
lammergeier wrote:
this is one of the issues I've raised to the devs. unfortunately, we have other problems that are probably ahead of this: tailor tissues that don't work (either due to p18 problems, or simply not working at all)... a disappointing 'cloning revamp' fraught with problems and devoid of fun... etc.
scouts/rangers can't trap... tailors/AS can't craft enhanced items... there is a long list right now, and I'll keep our issues on the radar (note: the sticky hasn't been updated simply because nothing substantive has changed since June). I'll be sticking it out, if only because I'm the Bio Engineer correspondent and it'd look a little odd for me to leave the profession (also, I'm stubborn. very, very stubborn).
Keep your chin up. You know they've been asking for feedback. Its in you "an inspiration to BE" forum. Problem is, we're not giving feedback! Come on guys! WAKE UP!
When the devs ask for feedback its time to pull yourselves together. They dont ask for anything until they decide its time to take a look at the profession. This is a very subtle clue we're about to get some dev love... but we're not giving them the feedback they need! God knows I'm trying... but I think i'm about the only one sometimes.
Consider the following as to why we're about to get a great deal of attention from the devs;
- Buffpacks are not powerful enough. Not that they need to be stronger... it would be nice enough if they just made buffs last much longer.
- Tailors cant improve clothes right now... we are likelythe cause.
- CH is weak, our pets get nerfed at the moment of training. The DNA crafting process is a mess.
- The Devs can "correct" CH by correcting our pet crafting process in one easy stroke. (2 for the effort of 1!)
- Pet stims are utterly unuseable
- They've announced we're about to get more creature skins to play with.
In fact, about the only thing right with our profession is chef food suppliments. Much of the complaints with the game right now are BIO ENGINEER centric.
Thats why we're about to get the love... believe me... you guys dont want them doing a whole BE revamp from just my suggestions (cause I like it when its tough to play)... so get out there and start telling the devs what you want! The more clear you are, andthe more you make sense with your suggestions, the better chance we have to turn our profession around!
I assure you we are definetly under the dev microscope right now. Take advantage now!
SioBabble wrote:
Unfortunately, this is one of many symptoms of the fatal disease called the level system that has absolutely no business being in this game.
It is very unlikely that the developers will undo this terrible thing. Much of the CU actually works, but the level system nullifies any progress the CU might have brought to the table. It is an utter abomination.
Sort of. Truth is, we've always been level based. The abomination stems only from the fact that our health pool size is nowintrasinctly tied into this number...
bad move.
Still, there is nothing in the game that cant be fixed with a few variable tweaks here and there. I really dont see a need for massive alterations. We need to be careful not to attack whole systems... I've learned in my time as an influence in past SWG reform, that attacking a whole system leads to catastrophic and HUGE alterations.
I now recommend working with the present system... and TWEAKING it to perfection. This different approach means less effort for the devs, and less headache for us. TWEAKING is key. It can be done!
having 1k health isn't the problem... the problem is getting hit for 5k in one shot that won't miss.
QuantumArtist wrote:
lammergeier wrote:
the health pool is the least of my worries... CL also determines accuracy and defenses, and it adds a MULTIPLICATIVE damage modifier.
having 1k health isn't the problem... the problem is getting hit for 5k in one shot that won't miss.
That depends doesnt it? Are we talking level 80 to level 80 combat? Or are we talking level 54 to level 80 combat?
It only stands with logic that a level 54 would get owned by a level 80.
It did not used to be this way, though.
The level system's multiplicative effect makes it IMPOSSIBLE for a level 54 to operate on an even keel with a level 80. A level 54 rifleman cannot hope to defeat Tazz, a level 80 MCH/Pistoleer, even though he might have superior weapons, because of the multiplier effect.
Mobs used to hit for what they hit, not hit on the basis of what the level of the player was.
Those who say that 'levels were always there' quite frankly don't understand what they're talking about. The levels were based on inate combat capabilities. You could change the level of amission by equipping different weapons, by grouping and ungrouping different pets. Most of my pets conned red to me, which was one of the things that was very cool about being a CH. Very dangerous critters that in the wild would eat you are at your command.
Nowadays it is utterly trivial for me to defeat a level 50 rancor. Back before the CU it was by no means a certainty, particularly if I went in "naked", that is, with no buffs or armor.
There were no damage multipliers. Furthermore, if you didn't pay attention, something at a lower level than you could defeat you. Now due to multipliers, it's impossible for anything that cons grey to you to defeat you, unless you take a nap at your keyboard and have no autoattack. I recall seeing the corpses of TKMs laying around a spawn point for meatlumps outside of Coronet or Tyrena where they'd been AFKfarming. That can't happen now due to the multipliers. Furthermore, a non-combat oriented crafter at least had a CHANCE to get away from something aggro, now, they're one hit to the cloning center.
SioBabble wrote:
QuantumArtist wrote:
lammergeier wrote:
the health pool is the least of my worries... CL also determines accuracy and defenses, and it adds a MULTIPLICATIVE damage modifier.
having 1k health isn't the problem... the problem is getting hit for 5k in one shot that won't miss.
That depends doesnt it? Are we talking level 80 to level 80 combat? Or are we talking level 54 to level 80 combat?It only stands with logic that a level 54 would get owned by a level 80.
It did not used to be this way, though.The level system's multiplicative effect makes it IMPOSSIBLE for a level 54 to operate on an even keel with a level 80. A level 54 rifleman cannot hope to defeat Tazz, a level 80 MCH/Pistoleer, even though he might have superior weapons, because of the multiplier effect.
Mobs used to hit for what they hit, not hit on the basis of what the level of the player was.
Those who say that 'levels were always there' quite frankly don't understand what they're talking about. The levels were based on inate combat capabilities. You could change the level of a mission by equipping different weapons, by grouping and ungrouping different pets. Most of my pets conned red to me, which was one of the things that was very cool about being a CH. Very dangerous critters that in the wild would eat you are at your command.
Nowadays it is utterly trivial for me to defeat a level 50 rancor. Back before the CU it was by no means a certainty, particularly if I went in "naked", that is, with no buffs or armor.
There were no damage multipliers. Furthermore, if you didn't pay attention, something at a lower level than you could defeat you. Now due to multipliers, it's impossible for anything that cons grey to you to defeat you, unless you take a nap at your keyboard and have no autoattack. I recall seeing the corpses of TKMs laying around a spawn point for meatlumps outside of Coronet or Tyrena where they'd been AFK farming. That can't happen now due to the multipliers. Furthermore, a non-combat oriented crafter at least had a CHANCE to get away from something aggro, now, they're one hit to the cloning center.
10 points for SioBabble.
REALbp1 wrote:I hate to play Devil's advocate, but if you wanted Maskscent with your BE, you had the choice to become a Ranger or Ch, but decided not to and went with Artisan/MerchantThe game provided you with the points to get the skills needed to sample well and you chose to prioritize other facets of play. Your choice.As a MCH/MBE I have no probelm, what so ever, sampling DNA, but I planned it that way...
maskscent and aggro is ALSO related to CL.
as mCH/mBioE, you're still sitting at CL60 or so... while a mCH/combat will easily hit CL80... and a noncombat BioE will languish at CL17.
since a BioE's DNA targets run to CL75, and since BioE's are required for GCW base takedowns, a base CL of 17, and a max in the low 60's, just don't cut it.
lammergeier wrote:
REALbp1 wrote:
I hate to play Devil's advocate, but if you wanted Maskscent with your BE, you had the choice to become a Ranger or Ch, but decided not to and went with Artisan/Merchant
The game provided you with the points to get the skills needed to sample well and you chose to prioritize other facets of play. Your choice.
As a MCH/MBE I have no probelm, what so ever, sampling DNA, but I planned it that way...
maskscent and aggro is ALSO related to CL.
as mCH/mBioE, you're still sitting at CL60 or so... while a mCH/combat will easily hit CL80... and a noncombat BioE will languish at CL17.
since a BioE's DNA targets run to CL75, and since BioE's are required for GCW base takedowns, a base CL of 17, and a max in the low 60's, just don't cut it.
Agree. That is why, when deciding what skills compliment one another, and your play style,you look at the template as a whole. Don't pick BE and Merchant, then complain casue you can't fight.
It's like picking Master Dancer/ MBH and complaining that Jedi own you...