Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: MBE + Med exp
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bline163
Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:28 am
#1
I'm trying to be constructive here, but why in the world is there nothing important about the MBE box for the medical stuff? Should that have the greatest reward for crafting anything to do with BE? Well now that all the medical stuff is in BE it's only in four boxes. Yes 0004 is all you need to make doc stuff. I think this will make so many more BE's just for that reason and make this profession something horrible. Now that med exp is put in BE prof were all screw there because we didn't get all the ca's we need to compete.
I really think this issue needs to be address of the next few weeks. I hope the correspondent reads this and voices his opinoin and the communities view too.
ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:57 am
#2
It's been discussed ad naseum, both in the corr forums and in the CU forums. The trouble is this:
From the doctor and CM point of view, they were stripped of their medical crafting ability. But to balance that out, they were given a skill point req reduction, and given the ability to dabble into the BE tree to get back that ability. There is no way, imo, that we can argue that the best medicines be put out of reach of the doctors and CM's. That is a battle we cannot win. I think the best we can hope for is equality in this area. Equality meaning that a long-time BE without any other medical skills other then the pre-reqshas a good opportunity to compete with a long-time doc that is 0-0-0-4 BE.
What I've heard from fellow BE's, and I agree with this, is that our concern in this area ought to be that we fight to make sure that our other areas of crafting have some protection from the one or two-line dabblers. And that master BE's still have significant benefits. That is my primary concern right now.
bline163 wrote:
I'm trying to be constructive here, but why in the world is there nothing important about the MBE box for the medical stuff? Should that have the greatest reward for crafting anything to do with BE? Well now that all the medical stuff is in BE it's only in four boxes. Yes 0004 is all you need to make doc stuff. I think this will make so many more BE's just for that reason and make this profession something horrible. Now that med exp is put in BE prof were all screw there because we didn't get all the ca's we need to compete.
I really think this issue needs to be address of the next few weeks. I hope the correspondent reads this and voices his opinoin and the communities view too.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 04-01-2005 09:58 AM
Kelderek
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:09 am
#3
If BE xp and Med xp are separate and BE xp still caps out in the master BE box, then I really don't care if the Med xp caps at BE crafting 4. Pre-CU to craft meds you needed MDoc (+ skill tapes if you wanted 12 points). If a BE wanted to craft meds you would have to get MDoc in addition to MBE (I don't even know if this was possible with skill points). If that was possible you could have maximum crafting skill for both meds and BE tissues/pets.
Under the new system, if my understanding is correct, if you want to have the maximum BE and Med crafting skill you would have to master BE, but if all you wanted to do was be a good med crafter and didn't care about making BE tissues/pets, then you only need BE crafting 4. This makes sense to me. All the MDocs who move over to BE to craft meds can just get crafting 4 and they can craft the best meds possible and since they don't have the full 10 points for BE crafting that a MBE has they will be less able to intrude on BE tissues/pets.
The one area I would be concerned about are the lower-level BE schematics like MNSs and BSNs which often max out in stats without using a full 10 points. For pet crafting I doubt anyone would be able to compete even for low level pets with just novice BE DNA sampling skill.
If my assumption at the top of this post proves incorrect then all bets are off.
ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:20 am
#4
Yea, right now that is not the case. The BE experimentation has been merged with med experimentation, and the masters box gives no additional advantage there. So that to me is the concern. That someone say at 0-4-0-4 can craft an equally good BSN as someone at master level, which has never been the case before. In fact it could be argued that someone at 0-0-4-4 and +25 skill tapes could possibly craft a better pet then a master could, which is another concern of mine.
Kelderek wrote:
If BE xp and Med xp are separate and BE xp still caps out in the master BE box, then I really don't care if the Med xp caps at BE crafting 4. Pre-CU to craft meds you needed MDoc (+ skill tapes if you wanted 12 points). If a BE wanted to craft meds you would have to get MDoc in addition to MBE (I don't even know if this was possible with skill points). If that was possible you could have maximum crafting skill for both meds and BE tissues/pets.
Under the new system, if my understanding is correct, if you want to have the maximum BE and Med crafting skill you would have to master BE, but if all you wanted to do was be a good med crafter and didn't care about making BE tissues/pets, then you only need BE crafting 4. This makes sense to me. All the MDocs who move over to BE to craft meds can just get crafting 4 and they can craft the best meds possible and since they don't have the full 10 points for BE crafting that a MBE has they will be less able to intrude on BE tissues/pets.
The one area I would be concerned about are the lower-level BE schematics like MNSs and BSNs which often max out in stats without using a full 10 points. For pet crafting I doubt anyone would be able to compete even for low level pets with just novice BE DNA sampling skill.
If my assumption at the top of this post proves incorrect then all bets are off.
rahbert
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:33 am
#5
........now I'm a little worried. I thought BE Crafting XP and Medical Crafting XP would remain separate.
bline163
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:54 am
#6
Arthur,
You made a very solid point to me and I have to agree with you on the balance of docs / cm getting 0004, but if there is not BE exp and were stuff with med exp then were, well you know what i"m going to say, to say the least.
My second concert is with the expansion if BE's make these arm's and what not will the doc's be able to dable with those too? I really think you are on the right track by getting out BE experimentation back as it was. Leave the med exp where it is and I'd actually be pretty happy. Just make the MBE be what it was and with the expasion make the new crafting line a BE line not a doc / BE thing. The big bonus should be MBE right? They we need to focus on making that what it should be.
MataHairy
Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:57 pm
#7
bline163 wrote:
I'm trying to be constructive here, but why in the world is there nothing important about the MBE box for the medical stuff? Should that have the greatest reward for crafting anything to do with BE? Well now that all the medical stuff is in BE it's only in four boxes. Yes 0004 is all you need to make doc stuff. I think this will make so many more BE's just for that reason and make this profession something horrible. Now that med exp is put in BE prof were all screw there because we didn't get all the ca's we need to compete.
I really think this issue needs to be address of the next few weeks. I hope the correspondent reads this and voices his opinoin and the communities view too.
I support this change (see my other post) and I suspect most other professional crafters would as well.
rahbert
Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:25 pm
#8
Think Arthur confirmed it was Medical XP in this post:
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Yea, right now that is not the case. The BE experimentation has been merged with med experimentation, and the masters box gives no additional advantage there. So that to me is the concern. That someone say at 0-4-0-4 can craft an equally good BSN as someone at master level, which has never been the case before. In fact it could be argued that someone at 0-0-4-4 and +25 skill tapes could possibly craft a better pet then a master could, which is another concern of mine.
Kelderek wrote:If BE xp and Med xp are separate and BE xp still caps out in the master BE box, then I really don't care if the Med xp caps at BE crafting 4. Pre-CU to craft meds you needed MDoc (+ skill tapes if you wanted 12 points). If a BE wanted to craft meds you would have to get MDoc in addition to MBE (I don't even know if this was possible with skill points). If that was possible you could have maximum crafting skill for both meds and BE tissues/pets.Under the new system, if my understanding is correct, if you want to have the maximum BE and Med crafting skill you would have to master BE, but if all you wanted to do was be a good med crafter and didn't care about making BE tissues/pets, then you only need BE crafting 4. This makes sense to me. All the MDocs who move over to BE to craft meds can just get crafting 4 and they can craft the best meds possible and since they don't have the full 10 points for BE crafting that a MBE has they will be less able to intrude on BE tissues/pets.The one area I would be concerned about are the lower-level BE schematics like MNSs and BSNs which often max out in stats without using a full 10 points. For pet crafting I doubt anyone would be able to compete even for low level pets with just novice BE DNA sampling skill.If my assumption at the top of this post proves incorrect then all bets are off.
Message Edited by rahbert on 04-01-2005 04:25 PM
bline163
Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:44 pm
#9
It's med exp capping at 0004BE, so the master BE box just gives you DNA bonus and the schematics for tissues. Identical to what it is now, but now BE exp at all in any lines.
zerobabble
Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:15 am
#10
With med crafting getting moved to BE there is a unique situation where all the meds and experimentaion is in one tree. A person can craft the best meds in the game by spending 49 skill points(depending if the scout requirement is taken out). I just mastered BE for making pets not meds but think I should get a bonus for experimentation for mastering the profession.
Right there is 11 experimentation points available and this is suppose to be a bug.
I know I will not like it if I have to master the medic proffesion to get 10 pointts to experiment on pets.
I think with the unique situation in the BE profession now the devs should make 12 points available depending on how many skill points you use. If you are currentl a 12pt doc or want to get tapes make 10 points available in Novice medic, medic crafting trees, Novice Bio engineer, and the one tree in BE with medicines. Another point could be put in master medic for the people who want to spend the skill points, A final point could be put at master BE. For 49 skill points I could get 10 experiment points and spend credits on tapes. For 97 skill points for master medic and BE crafting line i could have 11 experiment points and heal fairly well. For 92 skill points I could have 11 points and be a master BE. For 140 skill points I could have 12 points. This assumes the scout requirement goes away like was posted if not add 29 skill points
MataHairy
Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:00 am
#11
Kelderek wrote:
If BE xp and Med xp are separate and BE xp still caps out in the master BE box, then I really don't care if the Med xp caps at BE crafting 4. Pre-CU to craft meds you needed MDoc (+ skill tapes if you wanted 12 points). If a BE wanted to craft meds you would have to get MDoc in addition to MBE (I don't even know if this was possible with skill points). If that was possible you could have maximum crafting skill for both meds and BE tissues/pets.
Under the new system, if my understanding is correct, if you want to have the maximum BE and Med crafting skill you would have to master BE, but if all you wanted to do was be a good med crafter and didn't care about making BE tissues/pets, then you only need BE crafting 4. This makes sense to me. All the MDocs who move over to BE to craft meds can just get crafting 4 and they can craft the best meds possible and since they don't have the full 10 points for BE crafting that a MBE has they will be less able to intrude on BE tissues/pets.
The one area I would be concerned about are the lower-level BE schematics like MNSs and BSNs which often max out in stats without using a full 10 points. For pet crafting I doubt anyone would be able to compete even for low level pets with just novice BE DNA sampling skill.
If my assumption at the top of this post proves incorrect then all bets are off.
In the current system, even though youget all experimentation pointswith 4 boxes of crafting,you needed master doctor for schematics to some of the most important meds (Enhance Medpack Constitution, Stamina, Quickness and Strength). My proposal is to turn this around. Have all schematics available at 0004, but one or two experimental and assembly points at MBE.
Kelderek
Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:20 am
#12
The inherent problem here is they are merging two professions with the hopes of having one nice shiny new profession. But in reality it will probably always be (at least) two separate professions. There are enough long time BEs that will never have much interest in being medicine crafters and a lot of docs who don't give a rip about tissues or pet crafting. So you will have a clash between these two groups.
This same sort of issue has happened before and I've seen it with doctor even. There were a lot ofcrafting doctors who thought that they should get 10 points for just 0004 and not need master. Seems like those crafting docs are finally getting what they want - minimal SP spent to be the best crafter.
I think it's ridiculous to reduce the SP cost for being able to craft the best possible medicines from 140 (pre-CU MDoc) to only 49 (0004 medic, 0004 be post-CU). Tack on another 77 SP if you still want MDoc to use the meds in the field. IMO all elite crafting professions should require master to get the maximum experimentation skill.
1. Separate the BE and med crafting exp points and schematics.
2. Keep BE 10 points at master.
3. Keep BE crafting without SEAs.
Do those 3 things and I'll be happy and I don't really care what they do with the med side of things.
MataHairy
Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:26 am
#13
I'm cool with all those too. I'm just skeptical that (1) and (3) are possible without massive programming changes.
Kelderek wrote:
1. Separate the BE and med crafting exp points and schematics.
2. Keep BE 10 points at master.
3. Keep BE crafting without SEAs.
Do those 3 things and I'll be happy and I don't really care what they do with the med side of things.
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