Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Discussion Thread: Dna storage
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ArthurDentOnBria
Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:33 pm
#1
I'd like to open up this thread for the topic of dna storage, which is our #1 issue for Jan 2005.
Summary of the problem: dna samples are the maincomponents needed to create pets (5 per pet) and because they don't stack, this becomes a huge hardship for bio-engineers who wish to make pets.
Possible solutions: there have been may suggested solutions to this problem. Here are some of the threads where solutions were discussed.
Those would like to discuss this topic, please peruse the above threads to familiarize yourself with the prior discussions and proposed solutions.
Binger83
Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:08 pm
#2
oh i agree... having to use my input hopper to store my dna. i have always thought this wastes good space. the containers which would be made by artisans and could store 50 items would be ideal.
Kivrin
Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:20 pm
#3
I'm glad this issue came out on top. I've been taking a lot of orders lately and have been stuck at 99% inventory full across everything. Taking one item back and forth from house to person is so tedious it's almost comical that we put up with it.
I personally like any of the ideas where another crafting profession (DE, Architect, Tailor) creates an item that can go in a house oron my person that solves the problem; makes alotof DNA samples only count as a little for inventory space.
Hang it on the wall, put it on the floor, wear it around my ankles, anything. The droid is neat, could give a bonus to sampling if you have it out or something, but problem would be calling it in house.
Good job Arthur keeping this whole thing going in such a good manner.
Aleskander
Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:28 pm
#4
It would be nice to have a DNA storage item made by a DE or Tailor. Something that would be treated as 1 item, so we could store DNA samples without filling our inventory and houses.
Would also like to see the animal type be the name rather than the quality:
Voritor Dasher Above Average DNA sample rather than the Above Average with the creature name listed in the description. Would make it a lot easier when crafting pets.
Zadokk
Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:54 am
#5
There are two ways we can look at, we can modify the current system or try and find a way to improve the current situation. I will discuss the latter first.
A DNA storage module that is buildable into a droid is a very good idea as it gives DE something to do plus it helps us when BEs goes out on expeditions, they can bring old Crafty (my favourite droid's name 
) along with them for their storage abilities. The current storage maximum of 20 per droid is totally unacceptable. I have 5 droids which is 100 items of storage (not including the extra stuff I have to carry, e.g. crates of med supplies, food, weapons, armour etc). My backpack is constantly full with the same stuff, just with loose items and my inventory is in the same state, except filled with items that get used more often and items I have just collected, e.g. meat/hide/bone/milk etc. Also, it means that I have to either use the DNA or find another place to store it before I can go out hunting again. I don't see why I should have to use building lots to build extra houses or factories to store DNA when those lots are so badly needed for food and chemical factories or organic harvesters? Many other professions do this, e.g. Weaponsmiths to store multiple different types of metals etc HOWEVER this is their choice, they do not have to have multiple types of materials. BEs store a SINGLE type of resource that DOESN'T stack at all. This is unacceptable and we need a new viable source of storage. Once we get home, there should some sort of container (I believe it was suggested that we use a 'Sample Freezer') which can only hold DNA samples and it's contents doesn't add towards the buildings item capacity. The freezer itself, craftable by Architects, could contain up to, say, 250 samples and only one is allowable per building OR perhaps give a reduced item count, say allow multiple freezers but have the contents item count reduced by 50% - allowing us to store twice as many samples per structure.
) along with them for their storage abilities. The current storage maximum of 20 per droid is totally unacceptable. I have 5 droids which is 100 items of storage (not including the extra stuff I have to carry, e.g. crates of med supplies, food, weapons, armour etc). My backpack is constantly full with the same stuff, just with loose items and my inventory is in the same state, except filled with items that get used more often and items I have just collected, e.g. meat/hide/bone/milk etc. Also, it means that I have to either use the DNA or find another place to store it before I can go out hunting again. I don't see why I should have to use building lots to build extra houses or factories to store DNA when those lots are so badly needed for food and chemical factories or organic harvesters? Many other professions do this, e.g. Weaponsmiths to store multiple different types of metals etc HOWEVER this is their choice, they do not have to have multiple types of materials. BEs store a SINGLE type of resource that DOESN'T stack at all. This is unacceptable and we need a new viable source of storage. Once we get home, there should some sort of container (I believe it was suggested that we use a 'Sample Freezer') which can only hold DNA samples and it's contents doesn't add towards the buildings item capacity. The freezer itself, craftable by Architects, could contain up to, say, 250 samples and only one is allowable per building OR perhaps give a reduced item count, say allow multiple freezers but have the contents item count reduced by 50% - allowing us to store twice as many samples per structure.A second idea would be to allow us to take stackable blood samples from creatures. These samples would be dependant on the BEs sampling abilities (with MBEs getting more blood per sample than NBEs). The BE could then take the blood samples and extract a DNA sample from the blood. Again, the BEs sampling ability would come into effect here with MBEs getting more better quality samples with lower blood cost than NBEs. These blood samples would all be stackable from all creatures that are the same type, i.e. all wrix dna will stack, regardless of the wrix you got it from and the day you got it on. This means that a BE could go out a expedition for a certain creature and not being forced to return home, or to the bank to empty their inv/backpack/droids and go out again.
Many BEs have said that they have built their DNA labs on planets that they sample the most from, purely to save time between trips. This isn't fair, imagine if such a thing happened to scouts where each wrix corpse would yield "the hide of a wrix" which didn't stack? They could only harvest 30 wrixes before having to return home to drop off their hide. Well this is basically what is happening to us and it needs fixing. Just my $0.02.
Tal-N
Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:24 am
#6
There was my old idea from a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away) where bio-engineers crafted a device that allowed any and all preofessions to draw blood from animals. These devices (hyperdermic needles if you want) can also be used by other professions which allow them to draw blood and then sell it to us (or give it) this would be useful for rangers and scouts who would then have another means of income. Medics however would have a bonus for this ability as they could draw greater quantities of blood with each use of the device, naturally this skill filters through to the bio-engineer as well.
The blood resource would stack within each species. It would be like the currently processed/recycled resources however it would be completely devoid of stats thus allowing any kind of blood drawn from all animals of that species to stack together. That straight away solves the storage issue. A bio-engineer then has a tool which allows them to extract the normal dna samples from the blood resource. The DNA sampling skill will determine how many units of blood are needed to produce a single DNA sample. It might be a simple case of novices needing 30 units of blood per sample and masters only use 5 units per sample.
As expected the usual thing apply, when drawing blood with the deviceyou MIGHT draw aggro. It would function the same as dna sampling does. Critical failures when extracting dna from blood would result in the blood becoming genetically comtaminated thus you'd lose it.
However the overall result of this system would be drastic and certainly a good solution. A new trade would open up in blood marketting, bio-engineers wouldn't have to go into the field if they didn't want to, they could just buy the blood if they want. The increase in the availability of blood however would no doubt encourage more people to try the profession since it now can function similar to other crafting professions when it comes to resources. Since you'd have containers of blood rather than induvidual dna samples your storage issue is resolved right away.Buts its not eliminated (and shouldn't be totally removed) since you'd now end up with loads of containers of blood from various species.
Overall its a good solution. New markets, easier availablity of resources, a lower strain on the server database and no more storage issues for BEs.
DarthCosmo
Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:41 pm
#7
I'm just glad this issue came out on top. I spent over 6 hours yesterday travelling between houses, passing items to my droids, taking items from my houses, etc...The inventory management in this game is flat out horrendous for the BE profession. Mind you I still have fun, but some way to make this better would be awesome. I really don't care if we go the route of droids, blood, or a DNA Laboratory.
But imho, the DNA Lab is just cool. I love the idea of being able to house all my DNA samples, Blood Samples (hopefully), Meat and Flora in one place. Having it serveas a crafting station and tool from the interface would be amazing as well. Also, I like the idea of having the lab serve as a Pet Vendor only where once crafted, the Pet would move into a vendor accessible from the outside of the Lab. That would be sweet. I don't really see it happening, but I think if we could push for something like this, it would change our lives a little. It would give us a unique structure and be a one stop shop for pet manufacturing and selling.
If we can't get the lab, I think the blood idea is great. Blood stacks from the creature and we would collect it much like DNA samples today. Back in the house or lab(hopefully) we can then create DNA samples from the blood. I think this solves a ton of problems because it will be stackable, that is the main thing. If they want to make other classes open to Blood Sampling (Ranger, CH, medic) that's fine,but I feel like it should only be BEs and maybe medics/docs. If they open it to other classes, then our DNA sampling XP will have to come from making DNA samples from the blood. Otherwise, if they leave it just with us, DNA sampling XP can come from the blood extraction, however they want to do it.
Droids don't get enough love in the game. If I could give a "/harvest blood" command to a BE droid who got a nice bonus, I would pay a hefty fee for it. If the droid just stored DNA samples and had a nice interface and served as a crafting station and tool that would be cool too.
I guess the point is there are so many options out there. JUST DO SOMETHING.
My vote:
DNA Lab --> Freakin Sweet.
Blood --> Freakin Stackable.
Kevie
Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:26 am
#8
Tal-N wrote:There was my old idea from a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away) where bio-engineers crafted a device that allowed any and all preofessions to draw blood from animals. These devices (hyperdermic needles if you want) can also be used by other professions which allow them to draw blood and then sell it to us (or give it) this would be useful for rangers and scouts who would then have another means of income. Medics however would have a bonus for this ability as they could draw greater quantities of blood with each use of the device, naturally this skill filters through to the bio-engineer as well.The blood resource would stack within each species. It would be like the currently processed/recycled resources however it would be completely devoid of stats thus allowing any kind of blood drawn from all animals of that species to stack together. That straight away solves the storage issue. A bio-engineer then has a tool which allows them to extract the normal dna samples from the blood resource. The DNA sampling skill will determine how many units of blood are needed to produce a single DNA sample. It might be a simple case of novices needing 30 units of blood per sample and masters only use 5 units per sample.As expected the usual thing apply, when drawing blood with the device you MIGHT draw aggro. It would function the same as dna sampling does. Critical failures when extracting dna from blood would result in the blood becoming genetically comtaminated thus you'd lose it.However the overall result of this system would be drastic and certainly a good solution. A new trade would open up in blood marketting, bio-engineers wouldn't have to go into the field if they didn't want to, they could just buy the blood if they want. The increase in the availability of blood however would no doubt encourage more people to try the profession since it now can function similar to other crafting professions when it comes to resources. Since you'd have containers of blood rather than induvidual dna samples your storage issue is resolved right away. Buts its not eliminated (and shouldn't be totally removed) since you'd now end up with loads of containers of blood from various species.Overall its a good solution. New markets, easier availablity of resources, a lower strain on the server database and no more storage issues for BEs.
holy crap now there's a name i havent' seen in a while
tacwraith
Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:51 am
#9
make the droid engineers make a Binary Load Lifter with a storage capacity of 200.
That would solve a buttload of problems imo. For all proffessions.
That would solve a buttload of problems imo. For all proffessions.
Hylidex
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:12 am
#10
Arthur, I'm wondering if we can submit our issue with all of the suggested options listed, since after all it is the same issue. I'd be happy to see the issue managed by any means, as long as they decide to manage the issue.
Also, I'd love for the issue to read: "DNA Storage and Visibility", since the two issues are essentially part of the same problem. We could mention that it is impossible to manipulate stored DNA without examining it, since not even the donor creature's name comes through on the name of the object. Any solution they prefer should address both problems together.
I'll mention this on the top 5 thread, too.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:49 am
#11
Hylidex,
I'm having trouble seeing these as the same issue. I think they really are separate problems. For example fixing how dna displays doesn't help us at all with our storage woes. We'll still have all our droids, our factories, and our houses filled to the brim with dna samples. Also, I totally understand your thinking in lumping them together, hoping that it allows us to get more issues done, but my sense is that it very well could have the opposite effect. If we lump something that could be taken care of quickly (the inventory thing) with something that may take considerable effort to implement (the storage thing) we very well may be dooming both of them. These are the kinds of things I need to sort out with the devs on my end. Like I said in the other thread, don't sweat the order so much. We'll do what we can. I'm like you guys, at this point I'd just like to see any positive changes get done, lol.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:07 am
#12
Ok, as far as this issue, what I want to know from you guys is: Of the above proposals, is there any you particularly like or dislike more than the others? Are there any other ideas that we have?
Tal-N, the one thing about your proposal that I'm curious about is the bit about involving rangers and scouts in the dna process. What was the motivation for that bit? It of course would be possible to implement the blood idea (which I think is a good idea btw) without that, and it would still retain all the benefits of the dna storage. It seems to me that tacking on the bit about delegating dna sampling to rangers and scouts could have some negative consequences, for instance on a macro level, more dna harvested means more pets made, which may not be good in a market with so little demand for them. Also in terms of balance, just like with meat, a rich BE can hire an army of scouts to go get dna for him, and make far far more pets than he'd be able to today relative to other BE's. Thoughts?
R-ade
Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:41 am
#13
Aconcern that I have with the idea of stacking DNA samples is it may, depending on how it was implemented, allow us to mass produce pets. I've always gotten the feeling from SOE that they will never allow this. I can't give examples that they have ever "actually" said that they don't want us to do this but as I said I do get that feeling. I mean, look at the CL 10 uber pets that are supposedly "valid" but if you compare the stats to a wild CL 10 they're WAY overpowered. Now imagine if we were given the ability to create 10 or 20 or even a factory run of these pets. If this happened we would be nerfed before we could pull out another needle.
Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea. But if we're going to pitch it to the Dev team we need to have a plan ready on howissues like thiscould be prevented. And if we can't come up with a way to reassure the Devs that this concern can/will be overcome then we need to sideline this issue and go withtheSpecial Storage Device that they may be more likely to buy into.
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