Bio Engineer Archive

I am excited about seeing vehicles enter the SWG as I think it will really improve the feel of the universe for the better. However, as a BE, I foresee some serious issues for our profession (especially with the simultaneous push of the CH nerf), and I just wanted to throw this stuff out there as some overall thoughts/concerns. See if you agree...Those on TC are VERY welcome to comment/clarify. But, I must admit, I'm a bit worried...

• Vehicles may be able to be "called" (accessed from the datapad) anywhere at any time. In other words, vehicles could be called spontaneously anywhere rather than being confined to the locations pets can be called. [Bet youknow this message, eh?"You can only call pets OUTSIDE in a city, at a camp, or in your declared residence."] I have posted this question on TC as to whether my theory is accurate, but have not seen any replies to-date. For now, I must assume this is probably true.


• If it is true that they can, then when vehicles push to live servers, they will significantly impact people's decisions to keep mounts. This will be even more true when the CH nerf hits and non-CHs/low-level CH's will have mounts that can't really "double up" as tanks any more. In other words, if your creature isn't gonna do anything but get you from point A to point B, and it affects your datapad limit (see next item), why would you buy/keep/use vitality packs on it when you could own a vehicle?


• There does not appear to be a datapad limit on the number of vehicles you can have. [I should note, I am not suggesting that there should be...there are 3 current vehicles, and you could have one of each I suppose...but that's not my point...read on ] What is a concern, however, is that our mounts do take up a critical spot on the datapad and count toward the "limit" of pets people can own. So, if they ever fix DE, people will be needing to weigh their datapad space between faction pets (troopers, ATST, etc), creature pets, and droids (non-CHs having only two slots will make this a very tight fit indeed), while vehicles will fit easily in anyone's datapad regardless of pets/droids already there. I suspect people will keep their datapad as open as possible for the best/uber things they can get their hands on, and it will not likely be our mounts at the end of the day.


• Vehicles require no training/handling/commands by an elite profession


• Can be used by anyone immediately on conversion from the deed (don't need to wait for the vehicle to be 60% assembled


• No maintenance unless damaged (did I mention that they have 40k HAM currently?)


• Faster speeds than a mount at gallop (and they don't get winded )


• Craftable by non-masters of a starting profession (Artisan Engineering IV) (compared to our critters and to CH-tamed critters which both require practitioners of an elite profession)


• No fuel needed (but then again, food is not needed by characters or pets, so this is consistent, I guess) and no vitality to be lost nor restored

With the CH nerf, the release of vehicles, and the upcoming datapad limits, our profession may see an inevitable setback, particularly those of us who favor the clone line over the tissue line. I'm in it for the long haul, and will do my best to be positive and provide constructive feedback...however...this is the time for vigilance by Keldarin. The cloning changes will add a new angle to our profession--one I'm really eager to embrace--but the concerns we share that our clones are increasingly becoming either irrelevant (due to low-level baby spawns), unusable (due to the CH nerf), or underpowered (almost identical to wild counterparts), it won't take much more to make this profession as undesirable as DE. Cautious, optimistic, hoping I'm wrong ...

Right now, vehicles have the same calling restrictions as pets do, though I believe everything about vehicles is subject to change. They just went with the quickest mode of implementation to get them out before the holidays.

Will it decimate the mount market? Probably. After testing a swoop bike I have to say that I'm sold. Will it decimate BE's? Not really. Mounts were primarily a CH thing to begin with even if it shouldn't have been. I got many requests for mounts in the first few days, but that market has quickly dropped off. People got their mounts, rode around for awhile, and went back to walking because the mounts weren't much faster and actually increased the danger while getting from point A to point B. Mounts are primarily for looks. The only people really impressed with them were those who didn't have any explore skill.

I fear you are right, Xanda. Mounts may have some RP value, but not a heck of a lot of practical value.

Some people have indicated that mounts have better maneuverability over rough terrain. This might be of practical interest on very rough planets like Dath. But until they make vehicles available on test again, I suspect we won't know.

Agreed! also vechicals dont follow you when u exit them. If you are cought in combat while one on...you get knocked off of it. Vechicals can't protect you or fight for you.

Does this mean I won't use one? Hell no. My master ch master BE ranger will continue to use his bol.

My master tka master doc will use a bike...

This is exactly why you folks need to spend some time on the TC.

"Vehicles may be able to be "called" (accessed from the datapad) anywhere at any time."

Actually they need camps and the same rules as mounts on the TC, there isn't any indication of this changing,

"There does not appear to be a datapad limit on the number of vehicles you can have."

Only one at a time on the TC, no indications of this changing either

"Vehicles require no training/handling/commands by an elite profession "

Training is an irritation and it's simply another part of the 'crafting' process. It's not really an arguement in favour of vehicles.

Faster speeds than a mount at gallop

Out on open land that is very much correct, however they are severely effected by uneven terrain and when encountering hills stepper than 45 degrees they slow to a near crawl. Under those conditions a mount is far superior.

No fuel needed

This is a seperate point but I would like to see vehicles needing power

TY Yosho...that is relieving, but still doesn't nullify the other points . I appreciate the information though!

The dev forum and several posts on TC indicate the target of second-to-third week of December for the push. We'll see...but that is conveniently before a big holiday, eh?

Um...Tal...I have tried numerous times to play on TC and I either cannot login or get dumped out. I have limited time to spend on playing computer games, so my time playing has got to count. As much as I'd like to be altruistic for the game, and help on TC, it's just not stable enough for me and it is literally too difficult for me to play one character let alone two. If character copy came to light, I would be very happy to try again with TC, but it has been fairly difficult. I read the TC forum, however, to make educated comments.

Let me address your counterpoints

Tal wrote:

"Vehicles may be able to be "called" (accessed from the datapad) anywhere at any time."

Actually they need camps and the same rules as mounts on the TC, there isn't any indication of this changing,

My response: I tried to get the information regarding that from TC and heard nothing. My assumption was wrong. I am glad to have that clarified. And relieved too .

Tal wrote:

"There does not appear to be a datapad limit on the number of vehicles you can have."

Only one at a time on the TC, no indications of this changing either

My response: I have seen a few posts on TC showing that there is, in fact, no true limit on datapad spaces for vehicles. An artisan posted something to the effect that he had one vehicle he made and one an NPC had sold him in his datapad. There is no documentation to contradict this, and numerous people have posted this same question without response. Have you tried to open a vehicle deed while also already having a vehicle in your datapad on TC? If so, and I'm wrong, please post to their forums as well so that others can know this...it would be more helpful than just contradicting me outright.

Tal wrote:

"Vehicles require no training/handling/commands by an elite profession "

Training is an irritation and it's simply another part of the 'crafting' process. It's not really an arguement in favour of vehicles.

My reponse: I am comparing and contrasting vehicles and creatures. In fact, a great number of people play the game solo and would favor interacting little with others; in contrast to creatures which require you be a CH or seek one out, vehicles come preprogrammed and ready-to-go. It was a contrast point, and one that will mean others will seek out vehicles over our pets. I was not inferring that "programming" should be a requirement of vehicles, to be clear.

Tal wrote:

Faster speeds than a mount at gallop

Out on open land that is very much correct, however they are severely effected by uneven terrain and when encountering hills stepper than 45 degrees they slow to a near crawl. Under those conditions a mount is far superior.

My response: I have not seen anyone officially time this on TC. I recognize your point, but all of the interviews, all of the dev comments, and all of the stats people have posted on the forums indicated that over distance, the vehicles are hands-down better. I need to see data as I would personally LOVE to say that our mounts are better over distance, but thus far I can't.

Xanda, says

So, if they ever fix DE, people will be needing to weigh their datapad space between faction pets (troopers, ATST, etc), creature pets, and droids (non-CHs having only two slots will make this a very tight fit indeed), while vehicles will fit easily in anyone's datapad regardless of pets/droids already there. I suspect people will keep their datapad as open as possible for the best/uber things they can get their hands on, and it will not likely be our mounts at the end of the day.

I could be wrong, but it is my impression that all these different pets are counted separately in the data pad. It is true that with the exception of high level CHs and a few other possible exceptions to come, you can only have one pet out at a time, but I don't think there will be the datapad problem you are worried about.

Non-chs will have the two live pet slots available. It is my understanding that everyone is allowed 5 droids in their datapad right now, and I have seen nothing to suggest that this is going away. Pretty sure you can have at least 3 faction pets in your datapad. Of course once you can only call one, that won't mean much. So, I don't see any problem with having multiple vehicles.

"There does not appear to be a datapad limit on the number of vehicles you can have."

Only one at a time on the TC, no indications of this changing either

LOL been playing with my speed bike on test it ownz screw mounts i am going to stick with my speeder any day of the week

I agree that they will take over the job as primary mount. I will still keep my bol to use as a backup mount.

Points to remember:

1. Creature mounts don't go boom when you pull them out... ever

2. Creature mounts only need a few pet stims and some food when they are killed. With a speeder bike, you are walking.

3. A creature mount is still an attack pet and therefore has 2 uses.

4.Non CH will be limited to a CL10 pet. One of their pets may as well be a backup mount.

One thing to remember with the clone changes coming in, it will be up to us to make the best CL10 mount pet. If we are able to put special attacks in on the mount pets, there will be a demand for them. People will always want the extra firepower that a pet gives them. If we can give them a mount pet that doubles for a tank pet, we will still have a good market.

I have not seen anyone officially time this on TC. I recognize your point, but all of the interviews, all of the dev comments, and all of the stats people have posted on the forums indicated that over distance, the vehicles are hands-down better.

The devs are referring to a simple flat landscape for measuring how mounts and vehicles compare. Ask anyone who has taken their vehcicles across the Dune Sea of Tatooine or through the mountain ranges at the edges of most planets then you'll see that vehicles are a complete nightmare. If you want an easier test then use them from the Naboo Lake retreat to the Factional Base or even to the Moenia region. You'll find that vehicles are a total pain in the ass compared to your noble steed.

Of course around the rest of Naboo the vehicles totally 'pwn'