Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: What is this pervasive You SHOULD have known?
There was ZERO documentation on the cloning system
I have been forced to discover what is and is not possible in the cloning system by using 3 different methods: Standing on the shoulders of some of the frequent posters here (sumorex, tal-n, talthazar, and many others. Thank you
), checking out other sites for info, and my own pencil and paper trial & error process. If we had a DOCUMENTED system, we would be able to define whether the things we were doing were part of the system or exploits! Without documentation, it is ALL speculation. If we had a document, for instance, that said something like "resists on clones can not be more than the CL.". I would then know for SURE that when I made a clone at CL6, with 45% kenetic resists (just an example, although I am certainly able to make one) was a exploit or bug or whatever. Without proper documentation, as far as I know, I was using the system as designed. I did try using Kamurith DNA. I made a couple uber pets. I tried a whole TON of things. I made 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation clones trying to get the perfect pets at the right CL. All of my good pets are now invalid. I can continue to make pets, but if I make them too good, they are invalid? what the hell?
Look, if kam dna isn't working as intended, then nerf the hell out of kam DNA. If 3rd gen clones aren't what was intended, nerf the ability to sample 2nd gen clones. Actually I am sure the community would have had quite a few constructive and meaningful suggestions had anyone bothered to ask.
I might even be able to offer suggestions unsolicited if I knew what the cloning system is SUPPOSED to be, but that would require me to be able to read some documentation.
surreal2000 wrote:
Why should I have known that a nerf was coming?
There was ZERO documentation on the cloning system
I have been forced to discover what is and is not possible in the cloning system by using 3 different methods: Standing on the shoulders of some of the frequent posters here (sumorex, tal-n, talthazar, and many others. Thank you
Since one of the main points of crafting in this world IS EXPERIMENTATION then the whole cloning system was working as designed. There were no bugs to exploit. There were for the DEVs a lot of un intended concequences of their coding and testing process but since there was no document saying explicetly that such and such a value is out of range there was no REAL Reaaonable way for the BE to know or 'should have known' that his/her experiment was an illegal pet. Now one could argue 'should have known' and rationalize a lot and it makes for lively discussion. However the BE had been promised a revamp and the ability to make better pets than before. Better than wild even. WHERE in all that forum talk was there a definition of how uber is uber? So nothing in game. Nothing in forum from the DEVs. Wild (and not so wild) speculation from us (BE, CH, others) This does not create a 'Should have known' condition. So stop accusing the BE of exploits and start focusing on getting the DEVs to fix the system so that BE can make pets without worry of them being killed. (The pets) Tnere is no protection from the Nerf Bat however. If the DEVs decide later that the Be pets are still too strong they will *balance* them.
-Indene- (already contacted my BE to see what they can do and my customers and offered 'warranty return'. Merchant caught in the middle again
)
Fellow MCH/MBE here.
I agree with you on the documentation issue, but this is a massive problem with the game as a whole so I wasnt surprised about this. Hopefully 2004 will be better in this respect.
On the "should have known" issue, I disagree to some extent. IMO, I could have asked a hermit (who has spent the last twenty years living up a mountain in Nepal) if these CL10 and lower 'uber' pets were intended and his response would have been "hell no!". On other hand, I do have a little bit of sympathy for players who dont read the boards all the time.How hard could ithave been for the devs to add a small comment to the launchpad warning all players about the bugged BE pets/system?
Hopefully in 2 or 3 more patches they will have settled on what is acceptable for a BE pet of a certain CL and it will be impossible to create invalid pets anyway.
I agree, even if someone THOUGHT they were to good to be true, there is never anyway to know for sure with this game. In fact the dev's gave us something they should not have, and for weeks. When non-ch's could control pets they allowed us to have cowardly gurrecks and cupa's and rock beetles etc.. they did this knowing they would just be taken away a few weeks later. CRAPPY IMPLAMENTATION. They give and take away, its like giving candy to a kid, duh they are gonna scream when you take it away when they have only started to eat it. What idiot would do that? Who wants a screaming kid???
mmaughme wrote:
How could you possibly look at a CL 1 pet with 10K HAM and think it was permitted? Further, why do you continue calling this a nerf? From the moment I first heard of these uber non-CH pets, I knew it was a bug. When people asked me "how much for a hell durni," I told them I wouldn't make one as they were bugged. I thought it was quite clear, as it's unreasonable to have a non-CH pet that's as powerful as something only an MCH can use.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Why would you think it is unreasonable to experiment and find great DNA to use to make awesome clones that were of low CL? What information has been disseminated from the developers that would give you such information?
It is not a bug or an exploit to use a system to make a clone be more powerful than what is in the wild. This is what was intended from the start with the profession. A clone with 10k HAM that is non-CH? Why not? A Master Weaponsmith can make a weapon that is a thousand times better than one that can be looted off a MOB, why then should a Master Bio-Engineer not be able to make one that is that much better than what is in the wild? You may argue that it is too powerful in your opinion, but how would we know what the intention of the system is if it is not documented?
There is zero documentation for CH pets, what power/level they should have. Point is very valid for pet with a higher CL than 10.
What was made perfectly clear was the old CL15 pets prepublish were concidered too powerful for non-CH use. If you made a CL10 pet that was as good as a C. Gurreck, then it would have been out of balanced as stated. If you made a pet that was way better than a C. Gurreck usable by a nonCH, then it was some bug. If you kept on making and selling uber CL10 pets, then you were exploiting a bug of a the system that was clearly defind. NonCHs shouldn't have pets that are useful in battle.
As to pets usable by CHs, will that is anyones guess and that guess is nothing more than an opinion, not fact, as there is no documentation to address CH pets. The only thing we have to go on is wild animals and their CL level. Many people are of the opinion that BEs should be able to make pets better than in the wild. I am one of those. However how much better is simply not known and that is the true problem here.
i agree that documentation on the clone process sucked...
BUT
anybody who's been playing this game long enough to even HAVE a BE template "should have known" that a cl 10 9k ham pet wasnt gonna fly...
NO WAY can this be called an exploit, since there was never a "rule" against it, but PLEASE dont try to feed me some crap about how you think such a critter was gonna make it past the devs, or (even funnier) how you think theres nothing wrong with it
ByygPapa wrote:
i agree that documentation on the clone process sucked...
BUT
anybody who's been playing this game long enough to even HAVE a BE template "should have known" that a cl 10 9k ham pet wasnt gonna fly...
NO WAY can this be called an exploit, since there was never a "rule" against it, but PLEASE dont try to feed me some crap about how you think such a critter was gonna make it past the devs, or (even funnier) how you think theres nothing wrong with it
Care to explain to me then why some of mine are ok? It's easy to spout numbers, but HAM is obviously not the only deciding factor - it's not as easy as that by a longshot. Theoretically - we are suppose to be able to give to some areas and take from others, which is exactly what I did. Not sure I had any 9k health - but I did have some 8kish - course, dumb as a box of rocks and very low damage - therein lies the tradeoff.
Since some of mine seem fine - while others are invalid - I musta guessed pretty close to right. Just waiting now for this mess to shake out and see what happens.
You should already know that one too!
heck , I pulled all pets of vendor since no clue if they be good or not. I sure not goinmg to just have a ch tame them to find out. I had one I could tame and one I couldn't and no real reason to make out. I noit talking non-ch pets, those I just destroyed since only had them brewing for guild members to play with. It the other ones with no clue. Like a CL35 with armor, or a CL25 with armor. Then we can make something and wil it still be invalad? How do we know if we not a master CH to call up everything that we can maybe make? Is it even working now where can't make whatever a invalad pet is?
Gota love hot fixes that they push right onto all live servers.