Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: A depressing experiment
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GFoyle
Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:46 pm
#1
I decided to run a test of some of the rumours haunting the BE and CH communities (hence this is cross posted).
I tamed a wild CL10 cu pa and created 2 CL10 Bio-engineered cu pa's and trained then as a threesome and monitored the results:
Wild Cu pa had 1715 hp and a ranged attack
BE Cu Pa 1 had 2975 hp
BE Cu pa 2 had 2943 hp
BE Cu Pa 1 had 2975 hp
BE Cu pa 2 had 2943 hp
Neither of the BE'd pets had ranged attack - recipe used was Uller SC in phys and cu pa in other locations with Physique experimented up to 24.
The BE's pets were significantly smaller than thier wild counterpart (despite being the same level with more hp).
Over 13 trains ability slot gains were as follows:
BE 1 NNNNNNNYYYNNN (3 abilities)
BE 2 NYYNYNYNNNNNN (3 abilities)
Wild NYNYYYNNNNNNN (4 abilities)
BE 2 NYYNYNYNNNNNN (3 abilities)
Wild NYNYYYNNNNNNN (4 abilities)
Each train gave an 8 pt ability pool increase (and continued after maturity).
The wild pet could be trained as a mount on the 7th train -the BE'd pets never got large enough to train as mounts.
All pets achieved full mature size on the 10th. train.
OK - what does this mean:
Well I've confirmed that is impossible to create NON-CH BE'd mounts, the creatures just don't get big enough.
I've also confirmed that pets tamed from the wild have 1 more ability slot than similar CL BE'd pets (2 if they have a pre-existing natural ability).
It looks like all ability slots are gained by the 10th. train - initially with a 50/50 chance of a slot until the last few trains "force" the abilities so all are gained on maturity.
Net result in comparing BE'd vs. wild pets:
The only real advantage of BE'd pets is the ability to boost a very limited number of stats in comparsion to thier wild counterparts. Bear in mind that this is done by boosting some stats at the expense of others so that loss in ability slots is a real killer.
You actually have far more control now with wild pets and they are easier to "boost" in the areas you want (with Aggression, Thick skin, Marring Storm, etc).
There is likely to be no real market for BE'd Non-CH pets - losing 25-40% abilities is just too much for a pet whose main purpose is in specials or for use as a mount (which you can't get with BE'd pets).
For similar reasons, CH's are unlikely to want BE'd creatures when the wild ones can be "specialed" how they want them. Let's face it, I'm an MCH/MBE and I don't want any of the pets I make............
Given that pets are my main earner, I don't make meds/tissues/etc for anyone other than myself and BE pets are little use other than for posing, I'll probably be using that respec token to take up at least a semi-combat profession (MCH/MCM looks interesting)
Can anyone see any real use for BE'd pets?
I really, really wanted to find a use for them since I love the concept of being a BE - but an additional 100% even on pet hp isn't enough of an advantage when I count it a "loss" (and time to run) when the pet gets to 50% health! (and it's MUCH less than that on high end pets, and you can get the same with vigour).
I'd love for someone to be able to give me a reason to stick with BE - help! 
GFoyle
Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:47 pm
#2
I decided to run a test of some of the rumours haunting the BE and CH communities (hence this is cross posted).
I tamed a wild CL10 cu pa and created 2 CL10 Bio-engineered cu pa's and trained then as a threesome and monitored the results:
Wild Cu pa had 1715 hp and a ranged attack
BE Cu Pa 1 had 2975 hp
BE Cu pa 2 had 2943 hp
BE Cu Pa 1 had 2975 hp
BE Cu pa 2 had 2943 hp
Neither of the BE'd pets had ranged attack - recipe used was Uller SC in phys and cu pa in other locations with Physique experimented up to 24.
The BE's pets were significantly smaller than thier wild counterpart (despite being the same level with more hp).
Over 13 trains ability slot gains were as follows:
BE 1 NNNNNNNYYYNNN (3 abilities)
BE 2 NYYNYNYNNNNNN (3 abilities)
Wild NYNYYYNNNNNNN (4 abilities)
BE 2 NYYNYNYNNNNNN (3 abilities)
Wild NYNYYYNNNNNNN (4 abilities)
Each train gave an 8 pt ability pool increase (and continued after maturity).
The wild pet could be trained as a mount on the 7th train -the BE'd pets never got large enough to train as mounts.
All pets achieved full mature size on the 10th. train.
OK - what does this mean:
Well I've confirmed that is impossible to create NON-CH BE'd mounts, the creatures just don't get big enough.
I've also confirmed that pets tamed from the wild have 1 more ability slot than similar CL BE'd pets (2 if they have a pre-existing natural ability).
It looks like all ability slots are gained by the 10th. train - initially with a 50/50 chance of a slot until the last few trains "force" the abilities so all are gained on maturity.
Net result in comparing BE'd vs. wild pets:
The only real advantage of BE'd pets is the ability to boost a very limited number of stats in comparsion to thier wild counterparts. Bear in mind that this is done by boosting some stats at the expense of others so that loss in ability slots is a real killer.
You actually have far more control now with wild pets and they are easier to "boost" in the areas you want (with Aggression, Thick skin, Marring Storm, etc).
There is likely to be no real market for BE'd Non-CH pets - losing 25-40% abilities is just too much for a pet whose main purpose is in specials or for use as a mount (which you can't get with BE'd pets).
For similar reasons, CH's are unlikely to want BE'd creatures when the wild ones can be "specialed" how they want them. Let's face it, I'm an MCH/MBE and I don't want any of the pets I make............
Given that pets are my main earner, I don't make meds/tissues/etc for anyone other than myself and BE pets are little use other than for posing, I'll probably be using that respec token to take up at least a semi-combat profession (MCH/MCM looks interesting)
Can anyone see any real use for BE'd pets?
I really, really wanted to find a use for them since I love the concept of being a BE - but an additional 100% even on pet hp isn't enough of an advantage when I count it a "loss" (and time to run) when the pet gets to 50% health! (and it's MUCH less than that on high end pets, and you can get the same with vigour).
I'd love for someone to be able to give me a reason to stick with BE - help!
KisiRunningstar
Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:58 pm
#3
dont know about advantages but the only way you can get a kimo is by BE
UrukXul
Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:58 pm
#4
Well, I don't think this really addresses your concerns. But one possible use that a has BE is that to get a Level 70 Rancor, for instance, I would have to go to a BE, or to get 2 Level 35's with a particular skin, it would be easier to go to a BE. That's not much I know, but it's something I suppose ... it really doesn't make sense that NON-CH BE mounts are as you describe. /shrug
Seiryuu
Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:19 pm
#5
I consider BE pets getting one less ability slot a major bug. (Incidently, pre-21 tamed pets lose a slot as well, BE or not.)
Not a lot of other people know about this yet because they are still figuring out what pets get how many slots. Because of BE and pre-tame there is conflicting information and is making people think slots might come in a range. (Not what is happening with my experience, but I suppose it is possible.)
Both the BEs and CHs need to be made more aware of this as it affects both of our professions in the end.
Not a lot of other people know about this yet because they are still figuring out what pets get how many slots. Because of BE and pre-tame there is conflicting information and is making people think slots might come in a range. (Not what is happening with my experience, but I suppose it is possible.)
Both the BEs and CHs need to be made more aware of this as it affects both of our professions in the end.
Seiryuu
Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:22 pm
#6
A BE pet of the same CL as a wild one should always get the same number of slots. None of us should settle for less.
Gimpynoob
Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:05 pm
#7
There are 2 Bio Engineered pets that are mountable by non creature handlers. The Fulampaset and Dewback.
As for the BE CH market...
There will ALWAYS be a market for BE pets. Don't forget that BE pets attack at twice the speed of wild pets.
You can also make BE pets with up to 499 damage.
You can also make a CL35 BE pet with 8000 health.
There are other factors but these alone are enough to keep the market going.
I know that frenzied blitz is supposed to increase the attack speed. But I haven't seen any noticable increase in speed when I used it. Maybe its broken too. Either way a BE pet is going to attack faster.
As for the BE CH market...
There will ALWAYS be a market for BE pets. Don't forget that BE pets attack at twice the speed of wild pets.
You can also make BE pets with up to 499 damage.
You can also make a CL35 BE pet with 8000 health.
There are other factors but these alone are enough to keep the market going.
I know that frenzied blitz is supposed to increase the attack speed. But I haven't seen any noticable increase in speed when I used it. Maybe its broken too. Either way a BE pet is going to attack faster.
Message Edited by Gimpynoob on 08-25-2005 09:14 PM
Garlonbs
Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:36 am
#8
I've found that I'm using natural tames for learning specials only. I have a few naturals I'm keeping like my bull rancor and giant peko but my BE Gurrek is turning into an outstanding tank with only one training slot so far. He has developed a taste for Nightsister Stalkers 
.I've been reading up on the BE boards lately as I plan on finding a BE on Scylla who enjoys a challenge for a custom order of 3 lvl 23, 2 lvl 35 and one lvl 70 pets. I want to be able to specify resonable stats hence the research. I'll accept the loss of a natural level 3 ability to have the exact stats i want for a pet but other CH might feel the opposite. Point is, dont feel that BE pets are worth less than the naturals. I suspect my custom order is going to be VERY expensive.
.I've been reading up on the BE boards lately as I plan on finding a BE on Scylla who enjoys a challenge for a custom order of 3 lvl 23, 2 lvl 35 and one lvl 70 pets. I want to be able to specify resonable stats hence the research. I'll accept the loss of a natural level 3 ability to have the exact stats i want for a pet but other CH might feel the opposite. Point is, dont feel that BE pets are worth less than the naturals. I suspect my custom order is going to be VERY expensive.
Meplorium
Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:27 pm
#9
Just not seeing the problem, other than size, which is a known issue.
The BE CuPas have the equivalent of vigorious health L3. That is 3 ability slots plus the 3 native ones. Possibily an amazing success on assembly would give 4? So you are talking 6 maybe 7 slots with luck? on a BE. You are forced into vigorious health L3. Although on a CL10 mount that isn't a bad special to have. The attack isn't too meaningful at that level so you want something that can live through a few hits. That means more health or better defenses. I also doubt L3 vigorious health will give that much of a boost to health. Even with the trade off of damage, at CL10 that is a good trade off. Given a size issue fix, the BE CuPa looks to be a much better mount than the wild. Can still sneak in fleet footed L3 if that ever works for mounts and have an excellent nonCH mount.
Ultron69
Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:09 pm
#10
That sucks that you can't make them mounts.
I really would like to see how High Ham you can acheive On 23 level pets;I would buy 3 of them if I could put L3 Vigorous Health,L1Marring Storm and maybe Knockdown or frenzied Blitz or the Infamous Pinning attack.On each.
Joker9125
Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:26 pm
#11
Meplorium wrote:
Just not seeing the problem, other than size, which is a known issue.
The BE CuPas have the equivalent of vigorious health L3. That is 3 ability slots plus the 3 native ones. Possibily an amazing success on assembly would give 4? So you are talking 6 maybe 7 slots with luck? on a BE. You are forced into vigorious health L3. Although on a CL10 mount that isn't a bad special to have. The attack isn't too meaningful at that level so you want something that can live through a few hits. That means more health or better defenses. I also doubt L3 vigorious health will give that much of a boost to health. Even with the trade off of damage, at CL10 that is a good trade off. Given a size issue fix, the BE CuPa looks to be a much better mount than the wild. Can still sneak in fleet footed L3 if that ever works for mounts and have an excellent nonCH mount.
Actually BE pets also have the equivilant of another special Frenzied Blitz level 3. Trained this special to a friends pet and he said his pet hit 3 times to his one, and his attack speed is 1.89. BE pets are already innately this fast, so this pet actually already has the equivilant of 6 slots in addition to the 3 it already has. And from what we know so far crafting has no effect on the number of slots a BE pet can have.
Seiryuu
Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:46 pm
#12
Since the speed rating on BE pets is no longer showing, I'm inclined to think this is a bug. They're acting like they have a speed rating of zero (one because of the cap). I wouldn't count on this being that way forever, well, except for all the attention we know BE gets...
Meplorium
Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:53 pm
#13
I have to aggree that BE pet speed is bugged and will at some point be fixed in the normal undesirable way that forces everyone to get new pets. Also the CL10s don't enough damage to worry about the increase in speed. It is nice on high level pets of course.
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