Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Chef components.. Maybe Im not getting it?
Page 1 of 3
Ikas
Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:41 pm
#1
I'm shopping for BE components and I finally managed to find a vendor selling them... Things seem fishy though.. I could use an explanation I guess... Here's an example...
Broad Spectrum Nutrients - Nutrition bonus + 85, Count 25 = 61000 credits
Correct me if Im wrong but wouldnt this crate which costs 61000 credits only produce ONE final crate of 25 food? Meaning I'd have to buyout the entire vendor stock to really put out a solid run of product, on top of that adding 60K to the cost of all my food would be a drastic increase.. While the resources themselves are not that expensive, the meat can be but the rest arent that bad...
Am I missing something??? Or is this really how it's meant to be... 1 crate of tissues = 1 crate of food? =/
And are these prices accurate?! It's the only vendor I've found selling decent quality tissues.
Zapper_Weisman
Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:49 pm
#2
Yes they are. On my server, meat is going for 100-200cpu and we use 20k units for a full run (500 units for a crate), which makes each crate cost at least50k just to break even with the meat.... Add the flora we need (1250 units per crate on BSNs, more on INNs of course) and that we'd like to make a profit... Its not cheap. Thus why a lot of BEs just screw it and make schematics.
Message Edited by Zapper_Weisman on 11-14-2004 08:58 PM
Ikas
Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:56 pm
#3
That's rough... with food prices on our server I'd be making this product at a LOSS in many cases if I wanted to price competetively... Or possibly only 1-2K profit at most per crate.
CapricornONE
Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:45 pm
#4
Ikas wrote:
That's rough... with food prices on our server I'd be making this product at a LOSS in many cases if I wanted to price competetively... Or possibly only 1-2K profit at most per crate.
if you think that we're making a huge profit your nuts....
I've calculated my costs,from everything to buying materialsto the factory costs, and I make 216 credits profit per crate.. thats $8640 profit for a FULL RUN... trust me making adds is more of a philantropic effort by BE's who have been in the biz for long enough time.
Ikas
Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:49 pm
#5
I didn't say you were, the prices of meat are outragious right now so I have no doubt that it is the reason for that inflation... But Im just saying that carries on throughout the entire chain and it's really surprising that food prices have remained so competetive and low, probably because of all-in-one players who take care of all their components and resources from harvesting the meat off the creature straight up to selling it.
Either way I wasnt making a flamatory post just trying to figure out a price reference
Kryxal
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:57 am
#6
Indeed, the game is set up so you can't do it all, and then people do anyway ... on my server, it's difficult for a BE to sell additives at even near-cost. When people do that, it hurts those of us who don't.
Seiryuu
Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:00 am
#7
Food prices have remained competative and low because Chefs had huge profit margins intitially. BEs had nowhere to cut costs, and must adapt to the meat prices. That is why final food prices remain stable (for now) while tissue prices are climbing.
Eventually the Chefs will have to raise prices, too, if meat continues to get more expensive, baring economic changes from the CU.
Eventually the Chefs will have to raise prices, too, if meat continues to get more expensive, baring economic changes from the CU.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:53 am
#8
Ikas,
Before you make a post like this you should realize one very basic fact:
If a bio engineer were to charge the same markup on materials as chef, you'd be buying crates of additives for well over 100k.
Consider this: the ingredients necessary to make a crate of bivoli is almost identical for what is needed to create a crate of bio spectrum nutrients. So why is one regularly priced at 3-4x the price of the other? /shrug you got me.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 11-15-2004 09:54 AM
Zadokk
Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:56 am
#9
Sigh another thread about bio-engineers being rip off merchants and more retorts about the chefs are rip off merchants. I would argue but Nancy black mailed me so I cant 
Message Edited by Zadokk on 11-15-2004 06:57 PM
Aleskander
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:47 pm
#10
only reason I make any profit on the chef additives is I use my Jedi to collect meats and when I drop scout, I'm probably out of the BE biz.
Since I can make them cheap, I can afford to sell additives to my friends for pretty low prices and still make a profit. But not near as much as they can off the food stuffs.
Grozurr
Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:56 pm
#11
Ikas wrote:
I'm shopping for BE components and I finally managed to find a vendor selling them... Things seem fishy though.. I could use an explanation I guess... Here's an example...
Broad Spectrum Nutrients - Nutrition bonus + 85, Count 25 = 61000 credits
Correct me if Im wrong but wouldnt this crate which costs 61000 credits only produce ONE final crate of 25 food? Meaning I'd have to buyout the entire vendor stock to really put out a solid run of product, on top of that adding 60K to the cost of all my food would be a drastic increase.. While the resources themselves are not that expensive, the meat can be but the rest arent that bad...
Yes that's correct, although because you have to use one to make the addative schematic and one to turn addatives into the final product you actually end up w/ 2 less than whatever you buy.
Am I missing something??? Or is this really how it's meant to be... 1 crate of tissues = 1 crate of food? =/
Basically yes, although in my experience as a BE chefs will 99% of the time buy/order full runs of tissues because it becomes so much more worthwile when they are making so many crates of bivoli, synthsteak ect. as long as they have/can get the credits to actually pay 2 million + per run. other option i've seen alot of chefs do is to get "in" with a BE, order consistantly from them, and eventually the BE will let off prices, give them deals on some stuff, etc. or chefs will get together w/ a BE in the guild and get suppliments super-cheep and split profits off the food w/ the BE.
And are these prices accurate?! It's the only vendor I've found selling decent quality tissues.
On My server (kauri) meat prices are rising, but haven't hit the 100cpu mark yet. I'm not sure that there are many chefs that would buy regularly from a BE who was selling to them at this price, but if the vendor can stay stocked and provides a constant supply of suppliments then sometimes the price is reasonable and worth it. From the way things sound like on your server this is actually a fairly good deal, but not knowing the economy there it's difficult for me to judge. personally i dont' find it above me to price my suppliments higher than most and turn a larget profit but not sell as much. I've found that once you just don't care much anymore about price comparisons, it's very easy to say "that's the price take it or leave it, it can stay on there till SOE kills SWG for all i care."
SO my end comment would be that the prices aren't that "fishy" at all, the BE's charging what i feel is a fair price, but on my server the greedy chefs making huge profits don't want to share and treat BE's like dirt.
Grozzer
MBE/Sentinel
MBE/Sentinel
Reptilian_Greenskin
Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:24 pm
#12
Arthur,
Now that's not really true that bivoli takes about the same ingrediants as a BSN, a bivoli without an additive does, but then you have to add in an intelligent which over doubles the requirements meaning it will always cost AT LEAST double what an Intelligent should go for.
Dsabre
Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:29 pm
#13
BE/chef relations have been beaten with a stick over and over again, and pretty much the only thing that ever comes up is price markup differences, resource costs, and haggling by both parties.
with the CU, and grouping changes looking like their going to turn the economy upside down, and throw it into the spin cycle for quite a long time...things are going to get ugly if things stay the way they are...
not because of how much meat it takes, not because this resource costs x cpu...etc. but simply because the profession interdependency system is severely flawed.
think about it...the only hotly contested subcomponents which are used in profession interdependency are ones that don't require any experimentation...or ones that only have 1 line to experiment in.
reducing crafting to a "who can get the best resources" game is/has/will create a ton of bad will amongst the majority of its participants.
chef attitudes towards BE's turned sour right about the same time when chefs lost the ability to experiment on our own subcomponents...plunging chef into the "best resources" game...prior to that point chefs and BE's got along great...partially because both were equally broken...but thats another point.
if the intelligence of the crafter actually matters...price becomes less of an arguing point. people are willing to pay for quality, when that quality denotes real effort on the part of the crafter (and no gathering up/buying the best resources doesn't count).
BE's get the shaft on their end in the food market not so much because their less valuable...but rather because they are (sad as the case may be) easily replaceable. one BE can't/won't do what you want...find another noob BE who will. while yes you could do this with chefs...it isn't quite as easy (tho its not much more difficult)...and thus BE's continually get the shaft.
perhaps change the chef tissues to something like this:
eliminate the "variety" of BE chef tissues...and combine all 4 types into 1 tissue per level...but have 4 different lines to experiment in (and just to keep things sane...use the nutrition tissue resource requirements).
with the CU, and grouping changes looking like their going to turn the economy upside down, and throw it into the spin cycle for quite a long time...things are going to get ugly if things stay the way they are...
not because of how much meat it takes, not because this resource costs x cpu...etc. but simply because the profession interdependency system is severely flawed.
think about it...the only hotly contested subcomponents which are used in profession interdependency are ones that don't require any experimentation...or ones that only have 1 line to experiment in.
reducing crafting to a "who can get the best resources" game is/has/will create a ton of bad will amongst the majority of its participants.
chef attitudes towards BE's turned sour right about the same time when chefs lost the ability to experiment on our own subcomponents...plunging chef into the "best resources" game...prior to that point chefs and BE's got along great...partially because both were equally broken...but thats another point.
if the intelligence of the crafter actually matters...price becomes less of an arguing point. people are willing to pay for quality, when that quality denotes real effort on the part of the crafter (and no gathering up/buying the best resources doesn't count).
BE's get the shaft on their end in the food market not so much because their less valuable...but rather because they are (sad as the case may be) easily replaceable. one BE can't/won't do what you want...find another noob BE who will. while yes you could do this with chefs...it isn't quite as easy (tho its not much more difficult)...and thus BE's continually get the shaft.
perhaps change the chef tissues to something like this:
eliminate the "variety" of BE chef tissues...and combine all 4 types into 1 tissue per level...but have 4 different lines to experiment in (and just to keep things sane...use the nutrition tissue resource requirements).
Page 1 of 3