Bio Engineer Archive

yes thats right, its not a typo - DE changes. for those who havent yet gotten a chance to skim through them they are here.

my main concerns are:

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Combat droids. We want to add Droid Modules that will convert many droids and give them combat abilities. ONLY Droid Engineers will be able to make and use these modules. Setting expectations, these changes involve a lot of people and its not something that’s going to happen fast.

-mass migration of the CH 3-l33t to DE where they can create, repair, enhance, and replace all their pets for themselves (this concern shared by many DE's aswell).

-the drastic weight this drops off our end of the balance - DE can use their own pets without spending another skillpoint, leaving them enough to even master an elite combat profession, while an MBE has to use what amounts to essentially ALL his skillpoints to be able to use his best creations (and even then - not near exclusively, CH can use all our creations and everyone can use our low-end). unless combat droids are significantly weaker than creatures or a droid controller/handler profession is implemented, then the only other way to balance it is to allow BE +1 pet or + some small amount of control lvls (10 total at master or something).

-if combat droids are allowed to the general public, then not only do we have to compete with our main customer class (CH) for non-CH pet business, we also have to compete with DE's.

Droid engineers should be able to take out more than one droid at a time, but only one combat droid. The big challenge is integrating multi-droid controls. It’s too early to tell what the impact is going to be.

-under the new plan for CH do their creature pets count against the 1 pet? (ex: 3 pets and 1 droid, or just 3 pets total? ,,, DE - 3 droids and a non-CH creature pet, or just 3 total?). im concerned that they wont take this into consideration when making the checks on the combat droid #'s.

Increase Repair Droid functionality. What is planned is to Make Repair Droids work similarly to current pet healing standards. One of the ways we would make Droids more star warsy is to give the Repair Droids expendable droid items to charge up.

-with multiple droids out at a given time, not only can they use their droids to fight, but can make their droids heal each other at no pool expense to themselves during battle - HUGE advantage over CH.

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basically i am concerned that in attempting to make the DE prof more appealing to make the game more starwarsy (get more droids out there on the streets) they might unbalance the game by basically combining all the CH and BE abilities for creatures together into one droid class that already has a significant purpose and requires significantly fewer skillpoints, leaving the other two relatively weak and unapealing.

because of the "newness" of combat droids they have a potential to draw tons of people and this could severely limit our market (much more than the CH changes ever could) and render us essentially useless if proper care isnt taken to make sure it is done in a balanced way. (note: these changes are part of a DE future plan andwould not be implemented for at least anothermonth).

ok guys, tell me what you think.

...they are here.

sorry bout that.

As a master creature handler, and having friends that in both the BE and DE professions, I can see the sides of the proposed changes from several different angles.

DE is in desperate need of some attention, but to add combat viability to a crafting class I think is not only a snub to other crafters (unless they allow BEs to use rancors and weaponsmiths to use flamethrowersor T21s) but also potentially unbalancing in the way that the skill point system works, ie: for the investment in one set of class skills (DE -crafting) you get the advantages of two (both crafting and combat).

Well, here's my "reading" of the original text:


Item #1

Combat droids. We want to add Droid Modules that will convert many droids and give them combat abilities. ONLY Droid Engineers will be able to make and use these modules. Setting expectations, these changes involve a lot of people and its not something that’s going to happen fast.

Some of the abilities Combat Droids would have (barring any unforeseen difficulties) would be:

* Multiple combat modes for droids

* Short range blaster

* Long range blaster

* Anti-droid reactions

* Anti-creature reactions

Reading: DE's will now be able to make an R2 Droid a "combat" droid by adding the above modules. Only they can make these and add them, therefore, current droids cannot have these modules added, you'll need to buy a new one. Some added AI and weapon selection making them more effective against certain things.

Item #2

Droid engineers should be able to take out more than one droid at a time, but only one combat droid. The big challenge is integrating multi-droid controls. It’s too early to tell what the impact is going to be.

Reading: DE's can call more than one droid at once but only 1 combat, probably for the primary purpose of making droids useful. For example these are Droids which help make droids, and droids to Recharge other droids.

Item #3

Increase Repair Droid functionality. What is planned is to Make Repair Droids work similarly to current pet healing standards. One of the ways we would make Droids more star warsy is to give the Repair Droids expendable droid items to charge up.

Reading: There is a real "Repair Droid", it's a specialty droid. In the current state of the game, this droid is "useless" since all droids can have a Repair Module. This will give that Repair Droid some function. But to get this better repairing ability the droid has to eat like Droid modules or something per heal.

Overall Reading: This will improve everyone's droids, but DE's being able to have multiple droids out at once can fight more effectively, but an enhanced combat droid backed up by a Repair Droid still won't be as good as or better than CH. A probot will still get B-slaped by a Rancor.

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alioninwinter wrote:
Overall Reading: This will improve everyone's droids, but DE's being able to have multiple droids out at once can fight more effectively, but an enhanced combat droid backed up by a Repair Droid still won't be as good as or better than CH. A probot will still get B-slaped by a Rancor.

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you need to read more carefully: "ONLY Droid Engineers will be able to make and use these modules"

i think this is a serious balancing issue.

SOF,

According to part 3 of the Thunderheart's CH posts, for a while all players will only be able to have one pet out at a time (with the exception of CH's with managment or MCH skills). He said this will apply to creatures, faction pets and droids. Eventually they will add additional criteria (like minimum faction rank)that will allow people to field more than one pet attime.

In the short term this means that people will have to choose, and not everyone will opt to stick with creature pets. Expect CH's, and therefore BE's, to lose some market. The same thing will happen with mounts when vehicles come out.Creatures will become an option, not the only game in town. Personally, I don't mind sacrificing some market if it enhances the overall Star Warsy feeling of the game. There should be more droids, not just the one's you see around town partially stuck in walls. We'd still have more in game if probots hadn't got nerfed in the first place.

In the long run, if I had to make a guess as to who opts for which kind of pet, I'd say that people who already have artisan skills will morereadily opt for droids and those who already have scouting skills will more readily opt for creatures. For one, it's cheaper to take a profession based on something you've already invested in. For another people are likely to gravitate towards what they enjoy (i.e. that enjoy crafting and resource gathering versus those that don't). One advantage that DE has though is that it only takes one column of Artisan to get DE and two columns of Scout to get CH (all though getting through Engineering without advancing in Surveying is a pain).

So to sum it up, we will take a hit, but there is still room for both creatures and droids in the world.

Haggis

After looking this stuff over, it sounds like real pie-in-the-sky kind of stuff, certainly nothing to get your feathers ruffled about yet. In concept stage only, and most DE's don't even seem to want it, they want the existing stuff that they already have, to work (not more new broken stuff that also doesn't work).

That said, yea, BE's are mainly a creature support class so if Droids become "the thing", and they make DE's in to awesome "Droid Handler" combat types in addition to becoming artisans (really stupid imho) and nobody wants creatures any more, we're pretty much toast. If it happens oh well, maybe I'll become a DE like I thought I wanted to when I first became a novice artisan way back in July, lol.

So basically to some it up, Droid Engineers get do more things than we can, do what we can do better than we can do it, do it in a way that makes them substantially less dependent on others than we are, allows them to do it without having to take the risks we do, allows them to be more combat effective than we are and do it having spent 30 character points less than we do (And 15 points less than CH's). If they getauto-healing droids, effective combat droids and multiple droids out at once, I know what will be the new favorite 2nd class of commandos. Course then it will be them up on the nerfing block.

Actually the changes dont seam that bad.

The fact that a Droid engineer will be the one to make the modules and be the one to actually put them into an existing droid to make it a combat droid is kind of cool.

I am glad it will be only the Droid Engineers that will be able to do this.

But anywise....I always felt it was important that a Droid Engineer should be able to take out two droids.

Right now, they cannot repair their own droids....its very sad when you think about it....but also the fact that they too will be limited to only 1 combat droid out is kind of cool.

Remeber a Creature will heal over time, and even heal its wounds...a Droid does not do that...it stays wounded until repaired.

It will be very interesting, becasue Droids must be built, while the things we make, will be obtainable in the wilderness.

So it makes me wonder...what bonus we will have for our creatures we make.

On one serious side note...I am hoping that perhaps in the not so distant furture the modules will have ones for regualr creatures.....
I am think Bionic/cyborg creatures....

That would be sweet!!!

Sure a Droid Engineer, can make a module and install it in a pet we give them, then a creature handler could get this hybrid monstrosity and have a real killer creature from hell.

That would in my opinion be the ultimate in this game.

Hmm you know...I think I will start getting in contact with some Droid Engineer Friends I have....just so maybe if this trend is followed, I will have some excellent connections to make ultra-beasts.

Quickly and simply, I think its a big mistake having a class become both user and creator for combat. It doesnt promote the profession interdependence that was supposedly so vital in the development phase of this game.

Tilen
Scylla

good posts guys. keep in mind, as i said, these whanges wont be coming for a while, but they are being developed as we speak - basically, no its not anything to get upset about, but it is definitely something that might affect us in a very bad way if not done properly, so i thought it was important to share with you guys.

looked like i was trying to spell "wangs" lol.

supposed to be "changes".

I thought of acouple of additional cons for DEs:

• High level artisan items require special components that only a Master Artisan can craft. That will force DE's to either buy the whole skill tree or buy special components from a Master Artisan (sound kind of like BE's, huh?).


• Weapons only sound like they'll be ranged. Depending on how armor and structural points work out this could render them less effective at tanking than creatures. In addition, if they are limited to light weapons they will pack less of a punch than creatures. Of course then there is the Droideka. lol

Food for thought...

Haggis