Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: TC Info 01/23/04
Pahbi wrote:
Thats 3 people,3-4 hours a day for 4 days just to get 40k of one type of meat. Maybe a master scout/tka could do gather the meat faster, I dunno, but I think the devs are really out of control on this meat issue, no one is going to spend that much time hunting meat no matter what you pay them.
- Pahbi
Agree. totally. or Very, very few people. They want to make these things super rare for some dumb reason.
Pahbi wrote:
40k of 1 type and 45k of another type? That exponentially compounds the logistics of it all.
- Pahbi
Disagree here. with 45 of 1 and 40 of another, the meat can come from different spawns (dates) and more easily from different groups of hunters. Meat doesn't go bad, so you can focus on on 45K stack one spawn and a 40K stack on the next depending on which type is best in any given spawn. As someone who has put hundreds of thousands of units into food schematics, and had to buy or trade for 98% of it- belive me, its much, much easier that we don't need 85K of one type
Thendios wrote:
I'm on chilastra Odds, and I should be able to pull that off as well... feel free to look me up.
Thendios
Master BE
Woot! 
Feel free to look ME up too! I could probably buy all you wanrted to sell me!
"If I asked my friends to do a trip to collect one particular sort of meant (done this for dath insect a couple of times) then we can collect 20k in an evening."
More pie in the sky well wishing...
Sure, 'THIS' week everyone is happy to go hunt this stuff to make food with, what about next week, the week after and so on and so forth. What about when the meat you need is on tat and only drops from dewbacks or the meat you need is on corellia and only drops from bagerasets.
Are your 'freinds' really going to be out there 1-3 nights a week every week killing this crap just so you can maintain a stock of meat to make the additives?
I think not.
Maybe I'm old and cynical, I dunno. I've been in guilds and mmos since the first day the first UO box hit the store shelves. And it doesn't take me long to quickly seperate reality from wishful fantasy.
Mark my words: As soon as the novelty wears off and thegood meat that weekdoesn't come from dant, dath or endor, peoples desire to spend their entire evening gathering the meat will evaporate rapidly.
- Pahbi
Unfortunately what may in fact be going on with the meat/hide economy, which never ever meets demand, is that the developers see it as some kind of non-crafter welfare system. They want a reason for the crafters to purchase raw goods from non-crafter players. To do this they create a dependency. Now dependency is fine, that is what makes the SWG economy work. What is wrong is that how much of a bottleneck exists as a result of the dismally slow collection of meats/hides and worse yet milk (including post patch).
That is today that meat is too expensive to buy and takes too long to collect. Wait until the BE's start actually clamoring for it, it is going to drive the prices through the roof for any large stacks and make current prices pale in comparison.
If the developers want to keep the resource requirements where they are for both chef and BE then they need to provide high output mechanisms through which the critical resources can be collected.
That means either drastically increasing the number of units that you harvest from a creature by 5-10 times in addition to allowing BE to harverst DNA killed creatures, or meats, particularly domestic meats and milk need to be integrated into the existing harvester system and a new harvester(s) added to collect these resources.
I should not even go into the secret ingredient portion but it follows from the meat problem and the fundamentally mistake the developers are making. What a complete and total waste of time adding this in. I know, they are thinking that krayt thing was a huge success. Guess what, krayt is one of only 2 or 3 loot items out of a dozen or more, most of which have no value whatsoever in crafting. For an example of the failure of additives for a consumable you need look no farther than kliknik glands. Kliknik glands are an enhancement to grenades but due to availability as well as the fact grenades are consumable they are seldom requested and a royal pain in the butt to make, certainly not worth the price they fetch.
Bottom line is food is a mass produced product and anything that is a component in food must itself be a mass produced product.
The devs need to their heads out into the fresh air and realize that they efforts will be a complete waste unless they make enhancements accessible to everyone.
Angelonfire, as an Ex Master Droid engineer i will just point out that other professions cant just willy nilly create schematics for 1000. It took 3 months, yes1 and halfmonths for me collect resources for high end droids because they had not spawned recently on the server and old stock of particlar resources was prohivatively expensive. The armour smith had the same problem with Kyrium steel and byrelliuos (sp?) copper not popping for ages to.
Meat is always available, resources arent. With all the planets producing their own variety of each meat type it isnt long before a suitable stated meat pops up.
I agree that harvesting it can be prohibative but something is better than nothing at all!
A couple holes in your argument Kinslayer.
1. Driods are not a consumable item nor are they bought in crates of 25
2. In order for chefs to use the Additives they need to be made in fairly large quantities (500 at a time min).
This requires large amounts of resources. I commonly use 10k of a particular resource in a single run. I can understand where you are coming from however. It takes time to gather the good resources and they don't pop every week. You have to horde them when you can get them.
As for using any old meat, that isn't very practical as it can create quite a varience in the quality of the end product and my customers come to buy from me because I have really good product that is consistant. I'm sure it is the same for you. When you build a high end driod you want to make the best one you can and use the proper resource to so it. The main difference is that you are creating items in very small numbers in one go. If you have 100 driods on your vendor I imagine that they will last a little while (I could be wrong here). 100 items on my vendor lasts a week tops. This requires me to make as big a batch as I can of the desired items and make it often...consistantly.
Kobodoshi wrote:
What's this about 6k meat a day? I'm a master tka with the tracking tree from ranger, 6k meat is like half an hour of beating on enraged rancors. You need some pve build hunters. I'm kind of interested in seeing what the new veghash does to creature harvesting.
server? not chilastra perchance...?
) enhanced all three action related stats by 200, and you could take 2 of them un-be-boosted. Now, you double that (and I think with heavy it would be more like triple) and it is a full 800 to all action stats. I believe there is a food that hits all three of each particular stat, so you figure if they all are similar (and I am pretty sure they are), that is an extra 200 across the board. The "enhanced food" market is small, its true, but it is also very very very rich. These are the guys who solo the crazy 20-30k credit missions on the advanced planets in 10 minutes or less. They have the cash. I would expect a minimum of 5k per enhanced food item, probably more like 10k, and these guys would definitely pay for it.
Our market is not for the run of the mill fighter, ours is for the extreme who want every little tiny edge they can get, and are willing to pay for it.
And you guys are totally forgetting about the crafter market that has opened up.
Do you know how much a crafter is willing to pay for an extra 25% to their next experiment? And these might be able to be used consecutively (take some food, experiment, get bonus, take more food, get another bonus) I'm not sure, if so, the demand for these will be insane.
You guys may not be familiar with economics, but when the demand is high (and I can tell you demand is absurdly high, especially for our enhancements) and supply is low (due to resource problems) the prices skyrocket. You guys are already talking about the meat market and how it is about to skyrocket for the very same reason. Our market will simply be that much higher, and we won't need to make as much (because we won't be able to really).
These enhancements were NOT designed to be made in 1000 tissue runs, and if you do make a run like that of heavies, you'd be a fool to sell it for less than 10 million. I wouldn't sell for less than 20 million or more.
I can honestly say that I believe a master weaponsmith or armorsmith in high demand and fighting for an edge would pay upwards of 1 million per crate of food that would give them +25% to their experiments. No way it costs you 1 million to make a single crate of chef tissues. Partner with a chef, if you want to specialize like this, and split the profits and you are making 500k per crate.
And do you know why an armorsmith or weaponsmith would pay such prices for food? Because if the armorsmith can squeeze just 5% more resistances into an already nearly maxed piece of armor he can double his price, taking a 50k piece of armor to 100k, and a full suit up to and over 1 million or more, and this for a 50k investment on the whole suit.
The point is that these additives SHOULDN'T be mass produced, because if they are THEN they will become worthless, and the profession will die. Right now I can make 100k on 4 crates of tailor tissues. I expect to double that for chef tissues. If you make 10 crates a day, that is 500k per day, and MOST Of this stuff isn't really that hard to make, only the best stuff is. And you guys complaining about milk, I collected enough for 1 crate in about 20 minutes, and I was goofing off.
Anyway, I'm all over the place.
My point is, if you don't like how hard tissues are to make, don't make tissues. I also sell pets for 50k a pop, and they aren't all that hard to make very very good ones. If you would rather complain about the incredible job the devs have done in this one particular area (normally, I would rather piss on the devs, seriously, but when I saw the latest changes to food I could have kissed them) you would probably be better off not being a bio-engineer, as you are likely not cut out for it.
If you want to go nuts and collect 90k meat for a 1k schematic run, more power to ya, and you will be one rich SOB when you are done too, if you have half a brain.
BTW, comparatively speaking, a 1k run of pet stims already goes for about 2 million, I don't see chef foods going for less, I see them going for a LOT more.
Anyway, its late, I've jumped around a lot, thanks for sticking with me through this post, hehe.
Atyyy
Master BE
Starsider