Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: CL9 pet with Armor !!!
jopenack wrote:
OK I do not really care to post on such threads as spazzers can tesify lol. I get a little over emotional about this issue.
We had some good discussions in the past even if we don't agree.
Arthur is a very good corresponent. He has always been against the creation of uber pets.
Every forum has a one star bandit but I believe you will find that you are welcome to voice your opinion without the fear of flames. Stars really bare no meaning. It is the posts that have value. I value your discussion points even if they are contrary to my own.
By the way, I'm also against the high HAM high kinetic pets. The basic truth is I don't get to say right, wrong, yes or no. The developers have that sole responsibility. Until they accept that fact and make a move, one way or the other, we will continue to see these uber pets and the beating of the dead horse will go on.
Spazzers wrote:
The basic truth is I don't get to say right, wrong, yes or no. The developers have that sole responsibility. Until they accept that fact and make a move, one way or the other, we will continue to see these uber pets and the beating of the dead horse will go on.
True to an extent but Team "I have a better idea, God" is heavily weighted with people who argue against their creation. This isn't necessarily bad but I'm hoping that the team leaves the moral judgements to the devs.
Halthron wrote:
Spazzers wrote:
The basic truth is I don't get to say right, wrong, yes or no. The developers have that sole responsibility. Until they accept that fact and make a move, one way or the other, we will continue to see these uber pets and the beating of the dead horse will go on.
True to an extent but Team "I have a better idea, God" is heavily weighted with people who argue against their creation. This isn't necessarily bad but I'm hoping that the team leaves the moral judgements to the devs.
Why do they object though? I suspect most people object because these pets as they are as good as novice CH pets, up to around the triplet level, where u get the Kin resists and AR1. If the CH profession was more worthwhile, and allowed pets that were more balanced in respect to a normal combat profession, I don't think people would have a problem with these pets.
We need to look to the CURB to rebalance not to nerf. There is a difference.
If CH pets are too weak, dont nerf the Non-CH pets...make the CH pets stronger. It's more in line with other combat profession strength. Of course, if the other combat professions get toned down, then the new balance could be that current CH is the norm, and that these CL10s really do need a good hit with the nerf stick.
We need to think about balancing the whole spectrum of combat, not just this particular element, and a lot of people seem to neglect this when talking about CL10s.
Spazzers wrote:You can rest assured I will never argue morals or ethics. What one person finds moral and ethical another finds abhorent and obscene.What I argue is mechanics. Issues such as coding in order to create a better game as a whole.You decide for yourself what your morals are.
I argue ethics all the time. While I respect people's beliefs (and indeed their rights to have their own) I feel it is important that we try and coerce as many people as possible towards a common goal. Although debate and discussion on these kind of issues is important, I feel that the devs are more likely to make a choice if more people can get behind it. When I feel that I am right with such strong fervor, that is when I try to convince people. I don't, however, resort to one-starring, demening comments or personal attacks - they just aren't helpful and will push people away further from the cause than ever.
Message Edited by Zadokk on 03-16-2005 07:32 PM
I was going to post something... but rather than continue to beat the squall into a small amorphis mass, or get involved in the deeper discussion on ethics, capitalism, socialism (which, I must say, had the last laugh), and the deeper feelings of how this effects people, I'm only going to say the following.
Ask yourself what DIRECT effect, if any, the problem of a CL9 pet with armor has on your individual playstyle.
Does the existance of this pet mean you have to stop having fun playing the way you've been playing for however long you've been playing?
Does the fact that some people might create this pet and some people might not have a DIRECT effect on whether or not you will spend time creating your products for market?
I don't mean any nebulous "this could happen" kind of feelings... I already sometimes get a nebulous "SOE might just remove CH as a profession entirely" feeling although I think that's mostly just paranoia and crazy talk. I also don't mean a "there won't be any more CHs starting along" kind of feeling... there are very few people starting the game at this time in any event.
The idea that because I might be able to make 3mil from selling one pet is not going to cause me to go bugcrazy, drop everything I do, change my entire playstyle, and crank them out so I can make fake money; if I really want to have 50 mil in the bank, I can get it by spending real money. Money really isn't that important; the people you play with and the way you play your own persona are much more important.
So we know, for example, that ArthurDent & Zadokk won't make these pets. We know that Joker absolutely thinks these pets, and those like them, are somehow going to destroy his profession. (That's the take it seems to me from time to time when you say things like "creating those pets isindefensible" and "all bes that make these pets should be banned"; not an attack against you, just an observation.)
These pets have been around for over a year, and I have seen an upswing in the number of CHs I see. I only discovered these pets a few months ago; prior to that, the ignorance about these pets didn't cause me to lose my stock (when I had a vendor) or see them proliferating.
I, personally, have not seen any effect of these pets whatsoever on the way I play my character, the availability of what I need for my character, or how other characters interact with me. (The majority of Kettemoor, it seems, is ignorant of these pets.)
There are a lot of theoretical ways this can be bad, and it does point out that the Devs didn't test this formula against every creature in the game. Will this change with the CURB? IF the CURB is what it is said to be, then yes. If you change the HAM system for players, the HAM system is going to have to be changed for the creatures, droids, etc, as well. And I'll be happy; I'm far more angered by 140k HAM *anything* than I am by these pets.
But those are just my opinions. I could be wrong.
Here's hoping I didn't actually put anything confrontational in this.../click submit
Message Edited by jopenack on 03-16-2005 08:36 PM
jopenack wrote:
Actually they can change plyers ham and not creatures its actually the easier thing for them to do and my guess is its what they shall do since they plan on going live with the curb and we are still in paper mode and no testing is being done yet. or so I am told.
I can fervently wish otherwise. And hope that someone somewhere reads these. (If I wasn't afraid of pouncing, I'd mistake a particular Dev's gender purposely.)
I do not forsee any creature revamp for quite sometime since they have more promises to keep to other professions. Ch will change little during the curb other than a ch's 2nd profession and the players ham.
Promises, I think, are not quite what many professions think them to be. Although the light that has shone upon the Smugglers makes one hope maybe things will happen.
You may or may not believe its damaging to the ch community but many of us do, why would you want a ch in your group if everyone has one of these uber non ch pets.
I've read of some issues with pets, but mostly they haven't had to do with the non-ch pets. Mostly it's been cases of "No CHs because the pets steal XP" or other such nonsense. (To me; my xp doesn't change whether or not I take 2 hours to kill it with a CDEF or if my Rancor wacks it upside the head and I get a few good shots in.) As for grouping as a whole (and this may be server specific) but these days all I see are "solo" groups and PA-based groups. Occassionally groups of friends. The days when I could drop on Dathomir, and say "looking for group", and actually GET one, have been gone for a long time on Kettemoor. And, honestly, I'd want a CH in my group for the same reason I wanted to learn CH... because no matter what these pets do, you will have bigger, badder, and more fun to watch.
Also assuming it does nothing to effect ch then consider the skill points a ch uses and has little bonus compared to a non ch. They have all the same commands and tanking ability of someone half way up the ch tree, but use no skill points in the process.
They only have this if a CH trains it for them. Also, someone else's skill points only bother me when I think about how much I wish I had some combat skills. As for someone up the CH tree... no, their pets can actually do damage and get a "mini"buff too (embolden).
Morals and ethics do play a part in this game. the reason they do is because people take they're own personalities ingame that they have in rl. I see this constantly the givers and the takers lol. It is also why some people will change they're playstyle for credits because in rl they dream of and chase money.
Can't argue that, however, what I was aiming at is that morals and ethics are not hard-coded into the economy of the game the way a system of laws and government are in place in the real world to enforce the majority moral view upon how business is conducted (ie, anti-trust regulations, the SEC, even good ol' Alan Greenspan). In SWG, I can sell you a min/max dmg weapon, and be gone, before you realize the min/max damage is due to a powerup that just expired. In most cases, there is no recourse you have. There is no "lawyer" profession... and Maker-willing there never is! I think Politician is dangerous enough... (and takes 0 SP...) Of course, SW is truly a moral tale about Evil (the Empire) being overcome by Good (the Rebels)... just don't tell that to the hard core Imperial. (I don't tend to think that way, but that's the way Lucas seems to have envisioned it.)
In this perfect world and game we play our roles in lol, take out the vocal people who are passionate about they're beliefs and you would never see change, just a world of puppets on a string for who ever was in power at the time.
Feedback is requirement, but this dead horse is something that has been beaten time and time and time and time and... even I had a complaint thread when I saw that there was some question over whether this was cheating or not. And you have to note, not all of the squeaking of this wheeled mass has been productive or in a helpful vein. That having been said... the Smugglers have been very vocal for a long, long time (count how many posts are in their forum!) and they have finally gotten the inklings of hope. So yeah, it's a good idea to bring attention to a potential problem, but at the same time, once the Devs have it on their action-item list, complaining more won't make them move it up for what is honestly a very small fraction of their player base. The proliferation of these pets will no doubt make them double-check their priorities, I hope,and offering some constructive ideas on how to combat this issue might make them a little more likely to poke a nose in and say "Hi!" Thus: These are bad, probably, but don't affect me personally. Fix pets, not BEs.
These pets have been around for quite sometime yes its true but after the sunrunner trade forum was selling them for millions the spark ignited a forest fire. I saw myself on a vendor where the price jumped from 10k to 100k in a week not sure what it is now, god only knows
The worse problem and greatest benefit of a mostly player-run economy, I'm afraid. That and a lot of people just don't research what they're buying.
I am sure even thetailors would be upsett if they found out that armorsmiths could craft ubese shirts using bio tissues, these pets tread on the ch's turf its that simple. they sell well and make good grinding tanks for people. and what is the thing people do the most in this game? grind lol.
Wouldn't bother me if I was a tailor, but largely because finding a BE to get you tissues is hard enough as it is. And ubese is a type of armor. Why armor isn't "enhanceable" with BE tissues when clothes are I don't quite get, but then you can usually max your bonus with just clothes so why bother worrying about the armor?
For me its black and white.
Heh. For me, Black and white are just #000000 and #FFFFFF, respectively. The world has millions of colors; I don't even complain that I can't wear gloves and boots anymore...
jopenack wrote:
lol
I have to say it does not matter if I toss a rebuttal as you said "dead horse thing" I just wish a red name would reply to this stuff lol
I am leaving while I can still smile lol
and I must say
Felis your post's are like song, you missed your calling in life
jopenack wrote:
lol
I have to say it does not matter if I toss a rebuttal as you said "dead horse thing" I just wish a red name would reply to this stuff lol
I am leaving while I can still smile lol
and I must say
Felis your post's are like song, you missed your calling in life
No I didn't... haven't you read my sig? I was an entertainer, once... 
Yes, I too wish that the much famed red names would make an appearance. Of course, I don't think the BE forums has a known red name we can turn to... I mean, Smugglers know that GM has good ideas for them. And SWG-Goliath, an artist with SOE, is a playing smuggler. Is there a dev out there that is a true, playing bioengineer? We can hope, but I haven't met one yet.