Bio Engineer Archive

BTW, wonder if any folks know what my forum ID is?

Anyways, here is a link to an old SWG job posting
SOE Jobs

Message Edited by supersparc on 03-15-2005 04:23 PM

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supersparc wrote:
BTW, wonder if any folks know what my forum ID is?

Anyways, here is a link to an old SWG job posting
SOE Jobs

Message Edited by supersparc on 03-15-2005 04:23 PM

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Wild guess... 3156. Am I close?

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Zadokk wrote:

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supersparc wrote:
BTW, wonder if any folks know what my forum ID is?

Anyways, here is a link to an old SWG job posting
SOE Jobs

Message Edited by supersparc on 03-15-2005 04:23 PM

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Wild guess... 3156. Am I close?

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Haha, you're good. How about, what does it refer to? Without googling it.

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Spazzers wrote:
I love these types of discussions.

The best answer to this senario is to refer the creature handler asking for the high end animal to the BE that already made one. Regardless, if you purchase the 200K animal off another BE's vendor how is that any different than the creature handler buying the animal themselves of that BE's vendor? It isn't. The 200K went directly to that other BE.

Spazzers, I'm very surprised that you of all people have that view. Think about it. If the intent of the BE that made the CL 70 creature was simply to make 200k, then why did he make that pet in the first place? Hell,he could make more than that running survey missions in the time that it takes to make one of those. No, that BE, let's call him Arthur probably did it because he derives some satisfaction from making a pet for somebody, knowing that they are going to enjoy it and associate that pet with its maker. The guy that "wholesaled him" just deprived him of that.

Again I would ask why would the BE that crafted the CL70 care? He just got paid 200K for an animal he made. The creature handler can see who crafted the animal if they simply do an examine.

Nah, creature handler buys it from vendor, tames, it, and remembers where he got it from more than likely. The original creator is a distant memory at best. Remember? This is an item on our issues list.

"Only problem is, he'd also never sell it to a customer at that price either." There is nothing to defend because the BE is the customer.

That's a mis-quote. I was talking there about the CL 70 pet maker having the choice of either pricing his pet at a price that a customer wouldn't pay, or pricing it at a rate that makes him a candidate for a reseller just simply because his time that would be valued so far below the non-ch pet makers that it would be a drop in the bucket. His premeire product just because a loss-leader for someone else.

The answer to the question of why craft pets at all is because it's fun. If you're driven by credits you should be an armorsmith or chef. If it comes down to crafting any animal you do what best fits your game style. I would rather chase rancors than sevorrts and mereks. That's the choice I make.

Ah, but that is my point spazzers. Suppose you do craft pets because it's fun, and I have no doubt that you do. What is fun about it for you? Do you derive 100% of your satisfaction and pleasure simply from the process of creating the pet itself? Or is knowing that a customer is using it and appreciating it, and appreciating you for your skill a big component of that satisfaction? Seeto me that is where the rubber meets the road. If someone wanted to grief me, the very best way to do that would be to walk into my store, buy everything from every vendor, destroy it all, and laugh. That would be the worst possible griefing that I could receive. Because although I received credits for what I made, and there would be a slightly higher number when I look at my bank account (/shrug who cares right?), I'd no longer be able to provide the things that I provide my friends and customers, and every person that walked into my store from that moment forward would see a bunch of empty vendors and conclude that my store is the absolute last place they would look for goods next time they were looking.

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Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 03-15-2005 01:41 PM

Message Edited by jopenack on 03-15-2005 06:11 PM

All you can do Spazzers is read your mail carefully. See who's splashing the cash. It seems unlikely that any CH will empty a vendor, it is likely that their datapad is already 90% full and (no reflection on your crafting abilities) it is unlikely that they're gonna completely wipe it out in one go. So watch your mail, email big buyers ask them if they want anything specific and perhaps ask to meet them in game. If they have a MBE badge and not a MCH one, then its time to consider shop bans.

Personally, I woudn't want ANYONE buying all my stock. If Thunderheart came to my shop and bought all my pets I would yell at him. Fact remains, I craft BE pets for the challenge and excitement of seeing pleased CHs. Notice the pluralisation.

I love these types of discussions.

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

That logic doesn't work Halthron. Suppose I got a customer that says to me "Arthur, I want a CL 70 pet, the best that you can make", and I want to supply him with that pet. Ok, so what are my options? I know that I can make a uber non-ch pet in 1 hr, and that is worth 2mil. And I know that I could make a CL 70 pet in 5 hours, but I also know that the market for CL 70 pets prices them at 200k. So what are my options? Seems to me the best option would be to go make a non-ch pet, sell it for 2 mil, then buy a pet for 200k from a competitor, and sell that to my customer "at cost". That way I've satisfied my customer, and also madean insane amount ofcash, and the really beautiful thing is it's saved me much of that 5 hours that I would have spent making that other pet. That same technique could be applied to anything that BE's sell. Tissues, stims, or anything.

The best answer to this senario is to refer the creature handler asking for the high end animal to the BE that already made one. Regardless, if you purchase the 200K animal off another BE's vendor how is that any different than the creature handler buying the animal themselves of that BE's vendor? It isn't. The 200K went directly to that other BE.

So what is the defense against that? Is the problem that the guy selling the CL 70 pet is underpricing? Is that he's pricing it to be a wholeseller? Not at all. The guy selling the CL 70 pet on his vendor could charge enough that would discourage me from doing that. He could price it based on the value of his time at 10 million credits and true, I'd never resell him at that price, because at that price it would be worth my time to go make the CL 70 pet myself. Only problem is, he'd also never sell it to a customer at that price either. I'd imagine that eventually he'd just quit making those products and quit BE, or he too would throw in the towel and just start making non-ch pets.

Again I would ask why would the BE that crafted the CL70 care? He just got paid 200K for an animal he made. The creature handler can see who crafted the animal if they simply do an examine. "Only problem is, he'd also never sell it to a customer at that price either." There is nothing to defend because the BE is the customer.

Oh course it begs the question: when a customer comes to you and wants anything other than a non-ch pet, why don't I laugh in his face and tell him that it's not worthy of my time, now that my time is worth 2 million/hr? The answer to that of course is that many of us get satisfaction from supplying things to others. When someone comes to your store and says "great store, I love coming here,you always have just what I need, and I'll tell all my friends about you" THAT is why we do it, and of course that is exactly what you do not get, when competitors buy you out.

The answer to the question of why craft pets at all is because it's fun. If you're driven by credits you should be an armorsmith or chef. If it comes down to crafting any animal you do what best fits your game style. I would rather chase rancors than sevorrts and mereks. That's the choice I make.

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The logic holds, I just misinterpreted what you were saying. If the buying BE is not selling at a profit then he's doing a lot of work for no tangible return. He's still getting a return, that of having a stocked CH vendor, which creates some goodwill from his customers but it's immesurable here. If he is selling at a profit, and if he's selling non-CH for 2m then he's probably jacked the prices up on the CH stuff too, then your friend is an unwilling wholesaler.

What's the defense? Branding, stamping store WPs on the items, etc. If I go into Bob's Pets and see an item advertising ArthurDent's Evil Petting Zoo, I may still buy the item but I'll probably look to the source next time. At least I have in the past when it comes to food.

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

But here comes the good news... I stongly suspect that we are forcing the developers hand here. Before long I imagine they will be forced to do something about this, whether they want to or not because things are getting out of hand in a hurry. The trouble is though, like others have said, if something is done to fix the CL calculation bug with regards to vulnerabilities and effective resists, then this will certainly affect our "technique" for making pretty much all pets between CL 1 - CL 35, which not only would hurt us, but also hurt creature handlers a lot as well. In the end though, it's us that is doing this to ourselves, not them.

I think the bigger problem is the CL calculation routine itself. Ever notice the VD has an awful low level for its HAM and dmg? How the MDH has great damage but crap resists?

I personally thing the BE equation is heavily linked...if not identical, to the wild calculation. The biggest difference is we adjust the cleverness and courage numbers alot more than wild ones are. This would mean that re-balancing our equation 'could' rebalance every creature in the game....this is why I think the DEVs arent doing anything about it...and have drug their feet so long...

As has many have said, SWG is written in C/C++. The latter being object oriented. I good object oriented programmer always pays attention to code re-use....maybe they throw a scaling factor in but the equation can be re-used.

just my 2 cents.