Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: seems we are not a real crafting profession in some chef eyes :(
FlereImsaho wrote:It's all getting rather pedantic here. Why would I invest the SP in Chef then turn bio's around wholesale? Tissues are not a finished product, they are a necessary component for a Chef. 10mins to purchase the resources, process and re-sell to make 500k.....or 1min meet to make 100k - it seems like a reasonable choice to me.I notice that my most pertinent points go unchallenged, I suppose I will not get any recognition in a BE forum with this argument. The simple truth is that BE's have Chefs by the balls and some BE's want to squeeze til we squirm.Also as I have stated many times - I will trade Chef Schems to anyone who asks and is willing to look at a fair trade.Without tailors I cannot make competitive drinks - tailors don't run this argument when asked for trim - it's an essential component, tailors don't make massive amounts of creds for the same SP investment as BE so that argument is moot.I'm going to leave it here as it has become circular and pointless. BE's are being offered the opportunity to make some good creds for very little effort - it is clearly not enough for BE's who want to overly exploit their position.Anyone see the Southpark episode about the time travellers who came from the future to work? - This sound familiar? -"Deh tuk ehr jawbs!" - I believe it was portrayed as a red-neck philosophy.
You miss the point. A tailor does not take up tailor to make trim. BEs take up BE to make additives. It is our life's work. A tailor's finished products are their clothes which can and WILL be sold to any profession. Our finished products are food additives which can only be sold to Chefs. Do you see the bottleneck here?
There is also a BIG distinction in the cost of resources for additives and trim. Trim is much easier to produce as it does not rely on hunters for resources, instead they can go out with building deeds and harvest the resources for 0.2-0.5 cpu each. Instead we have to pay 20, 30, 40, 50+ CPU for meat. The prices are this high because of the number of chefs and doctors competing with each other for ranger contracts. No one is too blame (except maybe SWG
). The problem is that there aren't enough rangers and BEs and too many doctors and chefs. Supply / demand - atm demand is winning and meat prices are high.Message Edited by Zadokk on 03-19-2005 02:16 PM
FlereImsaho wrote:
It's all getting rather pedantic here. Why would I invest the SP in Chef then turnbio's around wholesale? Tissues are not a finished product, they are a necessary component for a Chef. 10mins to purchase the resources, process and re-sell to make 500k.....or 1min meet to make 100k - it seems like a reasonable choice to me.
I notice that my most pertinent points go unchallenged, I suppose I will not get any recognition in a BE forum with this argument. The simple truth is that BE's have Chefs by the balls and someBE's want to squeeze til we squirm.
Also as I have statedmany times - I will tradeChef Schems to anyone who asks and is willing to look at a fair trade.
Without tailors I cannot make competitive drinks - tailors don't run this argument when asked for trim - it's an essential component, tailors don't make massive amounts of creds for the same SP investment as BE so that argument is moot.
I'm going to leave it here as it has become circular and pointless. BE's are being offered the opportunity to make some good creds for very little effort - it is clearly not enough for BE's who want to overly exploit their position.
Anyone see the Southpark episode about the time travellers who came from the future to work? - This sound familiar? -"Deh tuk ehr jawbs!" - I believe it was portrayed as a red-neck philosophy.
I noticed you completely skipped over the question about me bringing you resources and you just being my little schematic monkey. I don't ever need to buy your foods. I can craft my own. All I need you to do is spend 1 minute of your time and make a schematic for me. I'll pay you 100K for a full run schematic. It doesn't take you any time at all, right? Nice tidy little 100K profit for you. How about every two days I pay you 100K for a schematic? Do we have a deal?
By the way, a BE tissue IS our finished product. Also, the point about you becoming a BE wholesaler does apply because you are indeed reselling my product. You're reselling it as a component in your foods. You realize the 400K profit that should belong to me when you sell your foods.
It makes no difference whether it takes me 2 seconds or 2 hours to craft a schematic. That schematic has a valuewhich you seem very content to ignore.I can make a widget that goes in a car. It might take me 2 seconds to make that widget but without it the car won't run very well. Should I mark down the value of my widget just because it takes 2 seconds to make?
GlanocRunningstrider wrote:
I know this is semi off-topic, but it looks like based on the new CU info BE's will be the new crafters for meds and perhaps CM items. Quite interesting.
GlanocRunningstrider wrote:
I know this is semi off-topic, but it looks like based on the new CU info BE's will be the new crafters for meds and perhaps CM items. Quite interesting.
1) the cost is the same if you buy crated tissue or pay 500k for the schem
2) would you do the same.
3) no real end product.
4) skill points invested.
Here's my feelings on that matter, if I've missed any points feel free to list them and I'll come back again.
1) If you've took the time to gather the resources and crate the tissue you're entitled to your profit margin. Asking for the same profit for 1 minutes work seems farcical.
2) I'm doc. If you come to me with resources for abecs, acdms & asds I'll make up schems for them. Once you've got some crated versions bring them back and I'll make buff schems for you. I wouldn't charge you 10 mil for the schems but you'd make more than that back from them.
3) BE lost its major end product with the creature nerf. I believe your only real end product is pet stims which won't sell all that well. Tissues can't be considered end product as they require another crafter. This is probably why med crafting is getting switched to BE in the CURB.
4) If we're charging by the skill point used then I'm going to have to bump my prices up seeing as doc uses 19 more skill points than BE. Add to that the fact that master doc doesn't include any surveying or harvesting skills to gather the resources needed.
So it seems to me that BEs have yet to adapt to the creature nerf. Come on boys, its been what 6 months maybe more. You can make money harvesting resources for armoursmiths, docs & chefs. As well as tissue sales and reasonably prices schems. Isn't that enough to make ends meat
Boab
BoabMcGrae wrote:
The only points I've seen BEs making are;
1) the cost is the same if you buy crated tissue or pay 500k for the schem
2) would you do the same.
3) no real end product.
4) skill points invested.
Here's my feelings on that matter, if I've missed any points feel free to list them and I'll come back again.
1) If you've took the time to gather the resources and crate the tissue you're entitled to your profit margin. Asking for the same profit for 1 minutes work seems farcical.
What if the resources were given to me by my guild and I invested no time at all in the actual gathering process? What if I simply bought the resources off a vendor in the mall next to my house? The element of time keeps being brought up. I say the time is really the least of the factors when determining profit. If my profit is 500K from a full run I should sell a schematic for 50K because the time is worth 450K? That makes no sense to me. It is the schematic that bears the weight of the value. Not the time it takes to craft it. I can accept a compromise that the schematic is worth 400K and the time 100K to come back to my profit of 500K. That makes much more sense to me.
2) I'm doc. If you come to me with resources for abecs, acdms & asds I'll make up schems for them. Once you've got some crated versions bring them back and I'll make buff schems for you. I wouldn't charge you 10 mil for the schems but you'd make more than that back from them.
What would you charge? Would you give me the schematic for free? It only takes a minute of your time to craft it.
3) BE lost its major end product with the creature nerf. I believe your only real end product is pet stims which won't sell all that well. Tissues can't be considered end product as they require another crafter. This is probably why med crafting is getting switched to BE in the CURB.
I hear this a lot. My typical, non-uber, CL10 animal leaps off my vendors. I make the vast majority of my money selling pet stims. They sell very well and very quickly.
4) If we're charging by the skill point used then I'm going to have to bump my prices up seeing as doc uses 19 more skill points than BE. Add to that the fact that master doc doesn't include any surveying or harvesting skills to gather the resources needed.
We aren't charging by the skill point. The issue regarding skill points is that a chef doesn't have to invest one single point in BE or medic or scout in order to run tissues when they buy a schematic. That fact alone has a value. Mind you, BE's do not make tons of profit off tissues. They sell for a retail price that gives an impression there is a lot of money to be realized from them. The truth is I cannot afford to purchase more meat for another run of tissuesbecause my 500K profit does not allow it.
So it seems to me that BEs have yet to adapt to the creature nerf. Come on boys, its been what 6 months maybe more. You can make money harvesting resources for armoursmiths, docs & chefs. As well as tissue sales and reasonably prices schems. Isn't that enough to make ends meat
The great nerf occurred in late 2003. I can make money harvesting resources for armorsmiths, docs, and chefs just using my scouting skills and invest those BE skill points in combat (which by the way, many BE's lack). I'd never have to make a single schematic at all. Why would I invest all those skill points in a profession that nets me 50K from a chef every now and then? And you ask if that should be enough for me?
Boab