Bio Engineer Archive

Message Edited by mpdivo on 02-14-2005 11:49 AM

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alphawolf100 wrote:

This isn't even the worst of it. just wait till the first person finds something of an awesome value for cheap. only to arrive at the vender location and the house has like a $50,000 Credit entry fee. All the sudden those VK's went from 2500 to $52,500 if you want to get ahold of them.

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thats the most logical point ive seen made by people not in favor of the change. man, what a grief that would be :/

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-Padre- wrote:

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alphawolf100 wrote:

This isn't even the worst of it. just wait till the first person finds something of an awesome value for cheap. only to arrive at the vender location and the house has like a $50,000 Credit entry fee. All the sudden those VK's went from 2500 to $52,500 if you want to get ahold of them.

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thats the most logical point ive seen made by people not in favor of the change. man, what a grief that would be :/

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Why thank you. I was actually for the whole thing till that thought crossed my mind. And i have no doubt in my mind thatthis WILL happen if actions are not taken. I don't have the time to read all the responses to Tiggs' post. i don't know if this was brought up but i think i'm goign to PM it to Tiggs. I hope i'm not a bother to her. heh.

I was kind of wondering how the access fees would end up working, myself.. but it's temporarily moot, as I understand the vendor changes have been pulled from TC to undergo some more work. So we've got a reprieve for a while, anyway.

I don't think that this change is about anything else then trying to stop those spamming at the starports (what is the only chance for new crafters to get their stuff selled, so they have no other way then doing this).

If the option to show your stuff at bazaars is only available at master merchant (or high level merchant), then nothing will change on this - still lagging and spamming everytime you try to enter a city - it should be a free skill (even for non-crafters to sell their loots).

But i agree that ist absolutely useless to auto-purchase a bought item (what will not happen now anyway).

Best solution IMO is:
1. player-vendors are only searchable / items of all player-vendors are only shown in a public bazaar-terminal, not other vendors
-> this would stop crying about "customer uses my vendor to buy someone elses stuff"
2. you can NOT buy these vendor-hold stuff from the bazaar-terminal, but you can (only) get a waypoint
-> no "50k entry fee", and as the customer has to travel to the vendor anyway the usual "additional instant buy" will be like before (means: customer buys more things from the vendor then just the thing he searched for).
3. yes, do list the prices (and values) on the (search&list-only) bazaar-terminals. free economy is a good and very healthy thing.

^^ wouldn't his solve the whole problem ?


personal sidenote:
please stop crying about lowballers, they exist now and they will always exist. Also there will always be enough people who care about quality and/or service (i like doing personal services / custom orders). Even if it would be the only way to sell a lot of crappy stuff for low prices to make some money, then why not ? this is called "player driven economy", just think about it.
Myself, i am not a lowballer, but i try to make fair prices (means 3-5 CPU as Shipwrigt, and less then 50 CPU or lower as weaponsmith, even with superb resources - and i would like seing these prices fall).
I have been Armorsmith for some time, and now i am shipwright and weaponsmith, and i really get angry watching people selling C12-Grenades for 20-50k cr per crate.
If the reason is about the high prices for resources, then go slap your Resource-Seller for taking 5-50 CPU for Resources while digging them out of the ground (when they spawn) for 0.2-0.8 credits. Or just try to harvest the resources yourself - theres a reason for the surveying-branch being one of the artisan trees.

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-Padre- wrote:

to the above poster: im with ya. the change would have ROCKED for shipwrights. i don't think there's a master SW out there who (if making high quality components with high quality resources) wouldnt welcome the chance to bury the undercatting lowballers using sub-par resources. people would see the differences.

i think where the friction with the change came from is the well established chefs, tailors, doctors, armorsmiths and weaponsmiths who almost all make overpriced stuff and have basically buried their competition. they are afraid to lose the 100cpu mrket they've established. they're afraid of competition from little guys who wouldnt mind selling at 20cpu and could make a living doing so. yes, its a blanket statement. sue me.

Speaking as a weaponsmith, we charge high CPU for our products because a) someone is more than willing to pay it andb) it isn't worth our time to sell such products at 10-20 cpu. And how can we "bury" our competition with high prices? That makes no sense at all. Logically, if we are "burying" our competition, it would be with low prices, to drive the new competitors out, yes?

shipwrights are at best getting 20cpu for high quality components and 6cpu for chassis. the odd thing is, it takes infinitely more resources to make SW stuff than it does guns or armor or food or buffs, and if you ***want*** to make high quality stuff, you have to use resources every bit as good as the aforementioned crafters use in their profession.our room for movement is smaller than the other professions, hence the effect on profit margin would be minimized. we're already pricing things very very fairly. the other professions....well....aren't.

Shipwrights require high quality resources, but you can use any steel, any copper, any aluminum, any radioactive, any ore. At most, you need only 5 specific named resources, which are always in spawn, and which spawn for about two weeks making if very easy to get large quantities. Most WS/AS/Chef/Doc goods require many different specific named resources (for WS it's dozens), many of which only spawn once every few months, all of which quality is very important, and all of which only spawn for one week. The price of our goods reflects the difficulty and challenge in building a good resource collection to be competitive with other smiths.

i mastered armorsmith and bought 20 pts of armor exp CA's because the investment in 25cpu resources, the 25million it cost for the CA's, and my time were worthLESS than what the armorsmiths on my server charge for armor. im sorry, but a 90% sliced composite chest is not worth 3million credits, and i know how many it takes to slice to get a single90. how about i charge 100million for a firespray, since the work and investment involved in that is infintely greater than the work and investment involved in generating a 90% chestplate?

If someone is willing to pay 3 million credits for a 90% effectiveness comp chestplate, then they obviously feltthat it was worth it. Who are you to dictate the value of goods and services to other people?

You are free to try to charge 100 million for a Firespray...good luck finding a buyer though. You can't charge 100 mill for them because no one will pay 100 mill for them. But people are willing to pay 3 mill for 90% comp armor. That's just the way the economy works. It may seem crazy, but that's just the way it is.

anyways, greed kills, and as we have seen, greed killed (for now) the idea of having galaxy wide server searches for the best part at the best price. welcome to thelate 1800's.

Ah, here it is, the "everyone who disagrees with me is greedy" argument. You might as well of just said "I can't think of any better arguments to support my position, so I'll just accuse everyone else of being a greedy bastich". Greed didn't kill galaxy vendor searches...they'll be back, and hopefully in a form that won't render most of the merchant profession's skills useless.

attico

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Slim Vargo, Corbantis