Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Probot vs Non-CH Pet
Lots of interesting arguments here.
I think Nancy's right on the HAM argument. It's the same as the old markup vs profit concept in retail.
if you take a theoretical 1000 HAM creature:
A 40% resist raises the effective ham to 1667
A 50% resist raises the effective ham to 2000
a 60% resist raises the effective ham to 2500
TheWoody wrote:
You should really consider yourselves lucky, as all you have to do is go out and sample something a few times, which at CL10 is not really dangerous. We have to go through a crafting hell and back in order to build these droids, and these are the top of our profession. CL10 creatures are the bottom of yours.Hope that helps in clearing up probots a little.
Message Edited by TheWoody on 03-02-2004 10:55 AM
A good CL10 pet is not the bottom of our profession. True, a pet of CL 10 can be made by any bio-engineer, but a good non-CH pet requires a great deal of skill and a little bit of luck to make. I can't tell you how many times I've got the perfect combine, only to have it come out as CL 11 or 12. You don't have to worry about someone being able to not tame the probot you spent 8 minutes putting together. Your 8 minutes will never be wasted, even on a crit fail, as you can always re-assemble the components. We bio-engineers lose the time and the pieces and we have to start completely over. You may have to start over, but you have the luxury of being able to just pull your new parts out of a crate.
And don't even give me anything about critical failures. Your risk is, at best, equal to ours; at worst, it's simply a risk that is common to all professions. You lose an hour making/selling a probot...I lose 4 when I critically fail combining a pet made from generational DNA. Don't even start to lecture me about time and crit fails
And resources...I laugh at your complaints. Sure, yours may be rare, and heck, sometimes they may not be spawned at the moment...but at least your harvesters don't rear up and kill you when you get things out of them. Imagine your heavy mineral mining installation going postal on you...and then you have the same problem we bio-engineers have. See, unlike a harvester, our sources of organics really don't like to donate their resources to the cause. In fact, we have to kill them (well, unless we're lucky and only need flora stuff) before they will give us anything. Not quite so fun, really
Anyway, I don't want to come across as mean/ill-tempered/vengeful, but I really do tire of people attempting to tell us on this forum how things are so bad for them as far as crafting goes. I am tired of that because really, even if you've got to re-make 60 subcomponents, every single one of them can be remade from resources that get pulled out of the ground by something that isn't going to try to eat you. Admittedly, the current crit fail problem is one that seems to span all crafting professions, but sometimes I swear the devs really had it in for us when they made this game...
What it does say in the patch notes is that
Combat Droids will have all the fighting functionality of a regular combat-capable creature (CL10)
Therefore they are saying that the droids should be equal to CL 10 pets
Wokka wrote:Be happy that SOE will allow non-ch to let us have one pet and one droid out at the same time. I think if they equalized them, then they would have a good reason to give us ONE called entity and we would have to choose pet or droid. Everybody shut-up before you screw this one up too!Wokka-wokka (aka captain obvious)
first apples and oranges are both fruit, probots and non-ch pets are both CL10 and usable by any character without skils
secondly when was the last time you called your droid and pet at the same time?
You cant. Not a probot, not even a crafting station or mouse droid can be called with your CL10 pet
This thread is about an issue that concerns Bioengineers - not you. No-one is saying probots should be nerfed. No-one is saying that you shouldnt get your 2 DE love patches.
What we are saying is that we dont want our pets nerfing again.
We have been told that our current non-ch pets are overpowered, which in comparision to a probot they are not.
The devs have said that combat droids should be equivalent to a CL 10 pet. Currently this is not the case, as shown in my experiment, in publish 7 droids are getting beefed up somewhat and our pets are going to be nerfed again.
All we want is to stop the nerfs to OUR profession.
NancyJ wrote:
*TO ALL THE DROID ENGINEERS WHINGING ON THIS THREAD*
This thread is about an issue that concerns Bioengineers - not you. No-one is saying probots should be nerfed. No-one is saying that you shouldnt get your 2 DE love patches.
What we are saying is that we dont want our pets nerfing again.
We have been told that our current non-ch pets are overpowered, which in comparision to a probot they are not.
The devs have said that combat droids should be equivalent to a CL 10 pet. Currently this is not the case, as shown in my experiment, in publish 7 droids are getting beefed up somewhat and our pets are going to be nerfed again.
All we want is to stop the nerfs to OUR profession.
I second that notion
I have read through this entire thread and I dont think anyone here was advocating nerfing droids.
A plain and simple experiment was set up by Nancy and it showed that our current CL10 pets, that some are saying are over powered, are indeed inferior to the current droids.
Now, the fact thatyou cannot heal droids and the fact they burn through more batteries then a person goes through toilet paper after eating Mexican balances things out somewhat (maybe a little to far in the pet's favor though)
However, now that they are not only beefing up droids and making them healable (along with longer battery life) the tables have turned...
If you then add in the ZILLIONTH ch/be nerf you get a serious balance issue.
Nevertheless one must consider the following:
- pets and droids will be callable at the same time for publish 7
If this is indeed the case you have one of two options:
- Make animals and machines IDENTICAL doublingthe power of a player character who has invested no sp in obtaining an augmented power level (sortadefeats the purpose of this whole combat re-balancing)
- Make one more powerful and nerf the other.
I think you, Nacy, did concede that in an ideal situation a machine should trumph over flesh and bone
If things go forward as purposed then what I see is the following:
- Droids now become desirable and more prevalent (more star warsy)
- pets, because they can be called out with the droids, will still have a market
Sharing power is always scary but as a MBE I think this might be a good thing.... Please note the word might
I, along with the rest of my fellow MBE, have yet to see EXACTLY what SOE considers to be over-powered for a CL10 pet **and** what SOE considers to be reasonable for a CL10 droid.
Inthe end, as a current MBE and a former MCH, I think this games really needs to start moving in a more star wars like direction... Its just a matter of making it so that CH/BE doesnt become what DE is now... There needs to either be a nitch for every profession, IMHO, **or** that profession(s) needs to be re-vamped/done away with.
Just my two cents
Message Edited by SomeUser on 03-03-2004 07:37 AM
Vezek
GreenStok wrote:
Tal-N, I need a clarification on this... With medium armor, you only take 1/4 damage, correct.. so if they have 900 ham that would be equal to 3600 ham? correct?
Yep, if they really take only 25% of the damage, it would look like this, for an example....
Take a 900 ham pet against a 100 dmg mob. It would last 9 hits.
At only 25% dmg, it would last 36 hits of 25 each. So it is effectively four times the HAM where Eff HAM= 1 / (1-resist) x base HAM.
Tal-N, I need a clarification on this... With medium armor, you only take 1/4 damage, correct.. so if they have 900 ham that would be equal to 3600 ham? correct?
You need to look at this from the damage end not the protection end. Fact is that when you take armor and resistances into consideration a probot is able to take more than 350% more damage than any other CL10 or non-ch pet. We now find out that a probot is able to have 990 HAM meaning the total effective HAM is higher again than we estimated. Put simply if the DE don't want a nerf then thats fine by me, but I wantvalid justification for why their CL10 droids are vastly superior to our CL10 clones. If they say, because they're supposed to be. Then I'd ask why do they haveCL10 rating at all then when it actually isn't.
I'd then follow that up with if they are allowing non-ch players access to pets which are higher than CL10 why can't pets be allowed that high as well.
Put simply the devs have alot to answer for here.
Message Edited by Tal-N on 03-03-2004 03:53 PM
As I eluded to earlier, it may just be that droids are intended to replace pets... or atleast take the leading role for non-ch...
Again, I dont see this as being all that much of a problem when they will allow us to call a droid and pet together... there will still be a market for non-ch pets as it will add more "effective" ham to the "front line soldiers".
However, something has to give! The devs aren't going to double our power by adding two equally powerful non-ch/non skill point investment pets/droids. Either they are going to make one more powerful and gimp the other or they are going to make em both gimped... looks like they are going with the first option.
Perhaps they should make a rating system for droids and one for creatures... though I think, atm, the devs are going to take the more simplistic route and just lump it into one category...
Between the droid re-vamp and the upcoming SE I think CH and CH/non-CH clones will be something of the past....
As a former MCH I watched the devs continually widdle away at my ex profession till it was only a shadow of what it once was...