Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: How do you get your meat?
GMANHNC wrote:
Yes wild pets are a pain especially if you forget you picked them up and don't try to train until they are an adult. I hate that.
Maybe that's why it was so hard.....
Reptilian_Greenskin wrote:
Since this thread has turned into the usual, "chefs won't pay us enough money to make them", would you guys let me know what price would make it worth your while to make and sell additives, Just looking for honest opinions. I struggle to find a BE on my server that is willing to make them in the amount I need them and when i need them.
So the questions I ask you BE's
1. How much would you need to sell a full run of Additives for in order to be worth your while (Micro, BSN, Intelligents)? (higher prices mean higher prices for food for those that don't take up BE as an alt, and probably drive them out of business)
60K per crate for BSNs, probably 50k for MSNs and 65k for INNs
2. Could you at that price keep up with the demands of multiple chefs (figure each chef wants at least 3 runs a week times the number of chefs you are working with, and the pets, tailors, ect you also make)
That all rather depends on whether Dath Carnivore meat is in good spawn. If we cant get the meat you could throw all the money in the galaxy at us and we wouldnt be able to make you any addatives. As long as Chefs and Docs can afford to pay hunters more than we can we will be in the same situtation.
3. How much do you feel is fair to charge for a schematic if you go that route (please give your reasoning if possible)
I liked Arthur's answer best
4. Would you want the additives gone from the BE profession and added to chef?
No, that would defeat the object of having an 'optional component slot' for BE addatives, why not just increase the complexity and resource requirements of the foods and make them as effective as they would be with addatives.
5. Do you have any suggestions to make this chef/BE interdependancy work as it is set up now? (making every chef pick up BE is not an option that works for all)
The relationship works very well with Tailors there is no reason why it shouldnt also work with chefs, the only reason it doesnt work is attitude. Chefs have a very different attitude, on the whole, than tailors do.
I am not trying to flame anyone and i don't want any flames, I am asking the questions that were asked from the BE correspondant on the chef boards and asking them back to you.
Thanks for your time
Trying to compare the relationship of chef and tailors with respect to BE doesn't work in my opinion. Clothes are not a disposable product so people don't mind 1 time having to pay a lot more for a piece of clothing (it is still only like 25K) whereas if you had to pay 5 times a chef cost, people would stop using foods (can you afford 500K/crate brandy?). Also the amount bought is a lot different between chef and tailor. Chefs go through multiple full runs of BSN and intelligents and a couple micro per week whereas a tailor won't (I don't know enough about tailor to speculate exact amounts).
This is really the only crafting relationship that relies so much on each other in the amount that is needed (where quality matters). And right now a chef without a BE alt is coming at a serious disadvantage (not only in terms of being able to make everything fast,but also in terms of pricing.
Whatever your ethics about making a schematic or not for a chef, asking for the same amount of profit from actually making the product and just making a schematic is not right. Either don't make a schematic under any circumstances or charge less than what you would be making if you actually made the item.
I can't speak for other servers, but the best Dath carn meat in 6-9 months recently spawned on tempest and I am not offering as much as some of the other chefs are (i'm offering 25cpu to harvest) and i have already brought in over 700K of that meat.
I have yet to see a BE offer anything to harvest it, just BE/Chef's
Again keep the answers coming and offering any suggestions to make this work better is great, as we need as much input into this with the sandbox coming.
You know what? Please don't tell us how to run our business m'ok? Believe me, if your customers started wising up and saying "geez, I have a food factory, I can get meat for 40cpu and flora for free, why am I paying a chef 80cpu for bivoli, I'll just go ask em to make me a schematic, get a lifetime supply, and never have to do business with these people charging these rediculous prices every again" your tune would change very quickly. It's realy easy for a chef to sit back and tell us about the ethics or economics of making a schematic, but all it is, is self-serving. If you don't think that a schematic is worth a million credits to you, and that's what the bio engineer is asking, then don't buy it, go back to making 200 power brandy or spend another $15/mo to make another account.
As far as the relationship between chefs and BE's being different, yep, it sure is. And I totally agree with Nancy. It's all about attitude. My primary business is doing tailor tissues these days, and I've been a bio engineer for 13 months now. Can you guess how many times a tailor has asked me for a schematic? answer: Zero
Reptilian_Greenskin wrote:
Whatever your ethics about making a schematic or not for a chef, asking for the same amount of profit from actually making the product and just making a schematic is not right. Either don't make a schematic under any circumstances or charge less than what you would be making if you actually made the item.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 11-05-2004 09:05 AM
Reptilian_Greenskin wrote:
Since this thread has turned into the usual, "chefs won't pay us enough money to make them", would you guys let me know what price would make it worth your while to make and sell additives, Just looking for honest opinions. I struggle to find a BE on my server that is willing to make them in the amount I need them and when I need them.
So the questions I ask you BE's
1. How much would you need to sell a full run of Additives for in order to be worth your while (Micro, BSN, Intelligents)? (higher prices mean higher prices for food for those that don't take up BE as an alt, and probably drive them out of business)
I’d have to go with Arthur’s formula on this one. On Kauri that’s going give the following for full runs: MNS: 2,400,000 BSN: 3,400,000 INN: 3,700,000.
Crates would be MNS: 60,000 BSN: 85,000 INN: 92,500. Any meat that is good enough for 57/87/117 sells for around 65cpu here, double or triple that if docs are after it. The last great avian meat went as high as 250cpu with an average of 170cpu.
2. Could you at that price keep up with the demands of multiple chefs (figure each chef wants at least 3 runs a week times the number of chefs you are working with, and the pets, tailors, ect you also make)
Yes, but it would be like having a second job, and not something to look forward to when I get home from work. I’d have to spend a few hours every day gathering or yelling a starports to get enough meat. That really leaves me with little time to do any of the other things you mentioned.
3. How much do you feel is fair to charge for a schematic if you go that route (please give your reasoning if possible)
OOFT. This is a curveball question. Way I look at it, if I sell a schematic then I haven’t done any of the grunt work to gather the resources, and I won’t be tying up my factory(s) to produce the stuff. In essence I wouldn't have put much of my personal time into it. So I’d sell pretty cheap, something like 150k or so. If I was on the other end, that’s about the max I’d pay for a schematic. Sure, it’s worth a ton more money, but who actually did the work?
4. Would you want the additives gone from the BE profession and added to chef?
No. That would be like hitting myself with the nerf bat.
5. Do you have any suggestions to make this chef/BE interdependency work as it is set up now? (making every chef pick up BE is not an option that works for all)
The trade that The Evil One suggested has worked very well for me. I would even trade at a much better ratio with guildies (1:5 or 1:7). With this arrangement I always let the chef know that I might resell what was traded to me. Never had a problem, but I could see where some Chef’s might want my head for that. I’ve also traded for special order runs where I supplied the supplements, and the chef supplied everything else. These trades where always done at a 1:2 ratio. Works out great to get Jawa Beer.
I am not trying to flame anyone and I don't want any flames, I am asking the questions that were asked from the BE correspondent on the chef boards and asking them back to you.
Thanks for your time
PlainWhiteSocks wrote:
I’ve also traded for special order runs where I supplied the supplements, and the chef supplied everything else. These trades where always done at a 1:2 ratio. Works out great to get Jawa Beer.
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
One thing to remember about jawa beer is that it's an artisan level item. Depending on what the chef's template is, your average chef may not actually be able to make good Jawa beer because they don't have engineering skills. As counter-intuitive as this might seem, someone like a droid engineer can probably make better beer than a chef, lol.
PlainWhiteSocks wrote:I’ve also traded for special order runs where I supplied the supplements, and the chef supplied everything else. These trades where always done at a 1:2 ratio. Works out great to get Jawa Beer.
DOH! I feel really really stupid now. I'm going to be laughing at myself all day long now. No wonder the chefs were always quiet about making this for me. This is what I get for not looking at the schematic requirements.
Thanks Arthur.
You'd probably get more & better responses if you posted this on a seperate thread, but here's my answers:
Reptilian_Greenskin wrote:
Since this thread has turned into the usual, "chefs won't pay us enough money to make them", would you guys let me know what price would make it worth your while to make and sell additives, Just looking for honest opinions. I struggle to find a BE on my server that is willing to make them in the amount I need them and when i need them.
So the questions I ask you BE's
1. How much would you need to sell a full run of Additives for in order to be worth your while (Micro, BSN, Intelligents)? (higher prices mean higher prices for food for those that don't take up BE as an alt, and probably drive them out of business) I calculate 60cpu for meat, 5cpu for flora organics. For INNs I'd figure the cost to me would be 1650, 1500 for bsns, 1075 for Micros. Adding in about 50% for myself, I would expect 2500 per unit for INNs, 2250 for bsns, and around 1500 for micros.
2. Could you at that price keep up with the demands of multiple chefs (figure each chef wants at least 3 runs a week times the number of chefs you are working with, and the pets, tailors, ect you also make) No. Food additives are the easiest thing that we make, but the meat, as mentioned before, is tough to come by, and I can't even keep up with demand for my tailor tissues.
3. How much do you feel is fair to charge for a schematic if you go that route (please give your reasoning if possible) I go with 1 million. This is a reasonable approximation of the amount of profit I'd make from a full run.
4. Would you want the additives gone from the BE profession and added to chef? No, I doubt any profession would want potentially money making products taken away from them.
5. Do you have any suggestions to make this chef/BE interdependancy work as it is set up now? (making every chef pick up BE is not an option that works for all) I understand the work that chefs have to put into making food, and that they want and deserve to make money. They need to appreciate the work we put into becoming MBEs, the skill point requirements, the work our suppliers go to, and so on. Chefs need to raise their prices across the board, and pass along the extra money to B-Es. Chef/B-Es are welcome to keep all the profits for themselves, just like Tailor/BEs and many other professions. On Bloodfin most chefs charge 100k-170k for a crate of food, and these prices are not realistic to support the amount of time and labor that goes into making the final product.
In terms of why I ask the question if you guys would want the additives moved to chef, is because almost every BE i come across both in game and on the boards says they won't make tissues for chefs, so again why do you want this in your skilltress if you don't want to be bothered to make them. Most here say they couldn't actually keep up with a chef demands even if the price was right and this is where the problems come. How is this supposed to work as an interdependancy when one side can make things a lot faster and easier than the other. I think making the amount of flora/meat for the BE to make additives would work well, or make animals drop more meat, especially to rangers, but I haven't heard any of that type of discussion from you guys in this thread, just taking everything I say as an attack.
Again please just try to discuss and not flame
