Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: nevermind
Cytosoul wrote:The second badge. I talked to the woman (Nelva) and got the first badge. A code is supposed to show up so you can open the prison cell and loot the corpse. The code never showed up, so I cannot proceed.
??? I got the 4 disk from the data stations... never looted a corpse.
Message Edited by Ectopic on 09-03-2004 11:59 AM
Message Edited by JediKnightXZN on 09-07-2004 11:57 AM
Message Edited by OnlyMaestro on 09-11-2004 08:16 PM
"No matter how good, or how "tough" they may appear, a simple /intimidate seems to destroy ranged far more than it affects melee."
It may not seem that way but intimidate affects you the same way it affects a ranged opponent. I use it all the time fighting other melee professions and it causes them trouble. And I hate it when I'm intimidated.
"For example...Rifleman are strong, but RIfleman cause me no fear. I have a 90%/40% Composite Helmet...use a Stun PSG and Damage Reduction food, and slap an intimidate which then causes the HeadShot spamming newbie to be reduced to nigh-importance. They can barely scratch me. Even if they switch to a Disruptor or T-21 vs my Marine Armor w/PSG and Damage Food, as long as I land an intimidate on them, I will be okay."
And how well do you expect a Headhit-spamming TKA or Swordsman to do against you?
I think you've had some really good successes in PvP and/or you're really good, but really, everything you talk about that limits ranged in PvP also limits melee.
Let's get down to the real differences between melee and ranged...
Melee professions get Center of Balance (though it sucks for TKA) and get a minor damage bonus against ranged opponents.
Ranged professions can attack out of the range of melee opponents.
When comparing imbalances, you really should contrast how strong one of those is against the other. I actually think that CoB for most melee professions makes them so unhittable that the ability to fire on them from far away can be imbalanced. So in essence, I agree with your basic point but not with your reasons.
Message Edited by OnlyMaestro on 09-11-2004 08:15 PM
"Every PvP Swordsman or Melee PvPer on Eclipse is speed-capped."
A master swordsman has +75 speed. A master rifleman has +90 speed. It is much, much easier for a rifleman to hit the cap than a swordsman.
"And you're right, intimidate is as hard on melee, but it completely messes up ranged opponents."
Please explain to me how 50% damage reduction is harder on a ranged profession than a melee profession.
"...and you're right, ranged opponents can "kite" a melee fighter, but most of the melee templates on Eclipse have MBrawler, which thanks to the lag situations can land a Lunge2 KD from 25meters if the timing is right. And since melee persons can land dizzy really well, it can end the fight."
64m>25m. There are tricks to getting into range with a ranged opponent but they don't work when the guy is smart. Ranged professions can also land dizzy well if they care to. The real difference is in the damage bonus the melee person gets when their opponent is prone, many ranged folks can dizzy/KD (or use posture change which works like a KD on a dizzy person).
"A speedcapped Rifleman is indeed tough, but speedcapped Melee fighters who PvP regularly will beat a ranged opponent three out of four times. Maybe this is just an Eclipse thing, but every major PvP 'fighter' is a melee stacker, or someone like me -- TKM/Doc. Some are Commando's, some are CMs...but the main fighters are, as they say '100% melee.'"
That is clearly an issue with ranged players on your server choosing poor templates. If the ranged opponents don't stack defenses or take a good complimentary profession like doctor then of course they'll lose. But that's like saying a TKM is overpowered because he beat a novice rifleman. If you have a bad template you won't do well.
By the way, being "100% melee" is not that great because if you lack ranged mitigation you will be destroyed by ranged opponents (especially riflemen). A good stacker will manage to get some ranged mitigation into his template to counter ranged opponents well.
"Also, defense stackers can get great intimidate defense, or in my case I can heal intimidate away. But true ranged fighters, usually don't have those options. Melee templates have a greater variety, and mix well with each other."
This sounds like an assumption on your part, and it turns out that it's incorrect. If you go "100% melee" the most intimidation defense you can possibly have is +40 (from fencer and swordsman, pikemen and TKAs have no intimidation defense). The most intimidation defense a person can get from stacking is +65, and that's only if they take carbineer in addition to swordsman and fencer. Even +65 means you can be intimidated if they attempt it a few times.
"As I've said maybe this is just an Eclipse thing, but in PvP I barely see a ranged fighter anymore."
It is definitely an Eclipse thing. Ranged combat is very popular on Corbantis. And for good reason. In PvP it's easy for a ranged fighter to hang back unobtrusively and pick away at the enemy while the melee fighter goes out to the front to draw the attacks. If you have two sides, one of which is all melee and the other with a good mix of melee and ranged, the side with a mixed group will probably win.
Atama wrote:
"Every PvP Swordsman or Melee PvPer on Eclipse is speed-capped."
A master swordsman has +75 speed. A master rifleman has +90 speed. It is much, much easier for a rifleman to hit the cap than a swordsman.
True.
"And you're right, intimidate is as hard on melee, but it completely messes up ranged opponents."
Please explain to me how 50% damage reduction is harder on a ranged profession than a melee profession.
Its equally as hard on either.
"...and you're right, ranged opponents can "kite" a melee fighter, but most of the melee templates on Eclipse have MBrawler, which thanks to the lag situations can land a Lunge2 KD from 25meters if the timing is right. And since melee persons can land dizzy really well, it can end the fight."
64m>25m. There are tricks to getting into range with a ranged opponent but they don't work when the guy is smart. Ranged professions can also land dizzy well if they care to. The real difference is in the damage bonus the melee person gets when their opponent is prone, many ranged folks can dizzy/KD (or use posture change which works like a KD on a dizzy person).
On ahazi ive been hit by melee at 30m, if the melee person is chasing you server lag will eventually allow them to catch up. Many ranged folks can dizzy/kd? Lets see.. Carbineer can, rifleman cant unless they get ranged support and thats a weak posture change, pistoleer cant, so that just leave carbineers as the only class that can dizzy/kd without dabbling. Lets look at melee, tk can, pikeman can, fencer can, swordsman can but its harder (weak dizzy from 2h hit 3). And trust me you CANT dizzy or kd a defence stacker.
"A speedcapped Rifleman is indeed tough, but speedcapped Melee fighters who PvP regularly will beat a ranged opponent three out of four times. Maybe this is just an Eclipse thing, but every major PvP 'fighter' is a melee stacker, or someone like me -- TKM/Doc. Some are Commando's, some are CMs...but the main fighters are, as they say '100% melee.'"
That is clearly an issue with ranged players on your server choosing poor templates. If the ranged opponents don't stack defenses or take a good complimentary profession like doctor then of course they'll lose. But that's like saying a TKM is overpowered because he beat a novice rifleman. If you have a bad template you won't do well.
You cant be a ranged fighter and have an equal footing defence wise in realation to your offencive power unless you get melee skills, and that is the problem.
By the way, being "100% melee" is not that great because if you lack ranged mitigation you will be destroyed by ranged opponents (especially riflemen). A good stacker will manage to get some ranged mitigation into his template to counter ranged opponents well.
If you mean getting 0040 pistoleer then yes they all do that.
"Also, defense stackers can get great intimidate defense, or in my case I can heal intimidate away. But true ranged fighters, usually don't have those options. Melee templates have a greater variety, and mix well with each other."
This sounds like an assumption on your part, and it turns out that it's incorrect. If you go "100% melee" the most intimidation defense you can possibly have is +40 (from fencer and swordsman, pikemen and TKAs have no intimidation defense). The most intimidation defense a person can get from stacking is +65, and that's only if they take carbineer in addition to swordsman and fencer. Even +65 means you can be intimidated if they attempt it a few times.
True.
"As I've said maybe this is just an Eclipse thing, but in PvP I barely see a ranged fighter anymore."
It is definitely an Eclipse thing. Ranged combat is very popular on Corbantis. And for good reason. In PvP it's easy for a ranged fighter to hang back unobtrusively and pick away at the enemy while the melee fighter goes out to the front to draw the attacks. If you have two sides, one of which is all melee and the other with a good mix of melee and ranged, the side with a mixed group will probably win.
If you dueled a master tk master fencer 0040 pistoleer novice medic, you would not win if you used a ranged weapon.
Atama wrote:
Melee professions get Center of Balance (though it sucks for TKA) and get a minor damage bonus against ranged opponents.
I agree with everything you've said in this post so far. But you're incorrect about melee getting a damage bonus, that went away a long time ago, it's only a slight to-hit bonus now.
Ranged players can stack melee/ranged/state defenses just as well as primarily melee can, the difference is that melee vs melee has not only CoB, but also toughness to factor into everything.
antares