Bio Engineer Archive

---

Ketu_Sringa wrote:

I don't recall "not CL54" in the BE top-ten issues.

Ketu

---

Bio Engineer Issues (post CU):

overall:

toon CL
master BioE, which requires an investment of 121 skill points, gains a toon a base CL of 17. similar skill point investments offer a CL of 54 (BH, commando, smuggler, and SL)

It's the very first issue actually. The reason no CL80 pets up to this point and the reason they are requiring CL80 to have CL80 pets has beenexplained to you in my previous post. You can go back and reread if you are confused. The only fix for a BE/CH to enjoy content paid for is the simple and eloquent fix of increasing MBEs CL to 54 as requested in item #1 of the BE top issues.

---

Meplorium wrote:

---

Ketu_Sringa wrote:

I don't recall "not CL54" in the BE top-ten issues.

Ketu

---

Bio Engineer Issues (post CU):

overall:

toon CL
master BioE, which requires an investment of 121 skill points, gains a toon a base CL of 17. similar skill point investments offer a CL of 54 (BH, commando, smuggler, and SL)

It's the very first issue actually. The reason no CL80 pets up to this point and the reason they are requiring CL80 to have CL80 pets has been explained to you in my previous post. You can go back and reread if you are confused. The only fix for a BE/CH to enjoy content paid for is the simple and eloquent fix of increasing MBEs CL to 54 as requested in item #1 of the BE top issues.

---

---

lammergeier wrote:


I'm not here to fuel the fire... but the MAIN reason I'm not going to be around anymore?

CL gates content.

it's been a shift... gradual to be sure, but accelerated with the new CL system and the the CURB... that I don't agree with. if you want my opinion on it, just check the soon-to-be-dismantled "lammergeier tracker" in my signature. I've been, and I will continue to be, sniping at CL-related issues.

BioE's aren't crafters. BioE's aren't combatants. that's hard-coded into the profession, and it's a conflict that has been addressed with a halfway CL maximum. a CL58 mBioE/mCombat toon can't compete in a CL80-or-bust game. pure crafters and entertainers have it worse, to be sure... but living in the middle is a place reserved for BioE, and it isn't fun.

this is a GAME. we pay a subscription to this game to have FUN. when CL gates our ability to have fun (dig through Dorelli's posts to find out why she was leaving BioE... hint: CL gates content, and BioE limits CL... or read the many other posts from veteran BioE's who are leaving/have left the profession).

the BioE issues I listed (and reported to the devs) were NEVER a shot from the hip. I listened to the community, I argued against issues I thought were trivial or inconsequential, and I made an honest report for the community based on my own experiences and overall feedback. if I listed an issue, it is a real concern.

if I listed an issue. it is a real concern.

yeah, I repeated myself... it was for emphasis. the REAL solution? develop a decent 'balancing' system that doesn't involve CL. I don't think making every toon CL80 is the answer... I think that NOT making CL80 a requirement for content IS the answer. SWG started as a SKILLS BASED GAME, and was developed as such. stapling a LEVEL BASED GAME onto the existing system was a bad idea.

skills-based? level-based? they don't mesh... and the genesis for SWG was always on the skills side. the CL system is an appendage that SWG can do without. as BioE's, I hope we're all able to agree that 'grafting' a dead arm onto the chest of an 'experimental subject' isn't a win-win solution.

---

QFE

Dunner

---

AJedimasterNow wrote:

I will answer your question. The answer is no, I leveled up a lava strider (lava flea body CL 67) to see if it could be mounted. I did this by grouping it with a CL 1 alt and killing lvl 1s. SO, your answer is NO, a lower char grouping with a higher pet will not boost the CL of the char. However an ungrouped CL 80 could work wonders at protecting MINUS the boring plight of BE helpers who just have to 'hang out' around a BE, for no reason other than the mean animal MIGHT attack... then again it might die, I myself put no one through the collecting of dna besides myself I did have one person volunteer to help me. But he soon tired... within 15 min, so I have subjected no other to that.

---

+--------------------------------------->
| Ketu Sringa   //  MCH/MBE/Ranger0030      /) /)     "Fade away
|                                          ( o o )     into the
| near LOST City, Naboo                     = x =      ethereal 
| Lowca                                    m     m     grey..."
+-------------------------------->       ***(=======-

---

Meplorium wrote:

---

Ketu_Sringa wrote:

I don't recall "not CL54" in the BE top-ten issues.

Ketu

---

Bio Engineer Issues (post CU):

overall:

toon CL
master BioE, which requires an investment of 121 skill points, gains a toon a base CL of 17. similar skill point investments offer a CL of 54 (BH, commando, smuggler, and SL)

*hangs head in shame* I should've looked, obviously. I was /afk throughout the CU transition so I missed that riot.

It's the very first issue actually. The reason no CL80 pets up to this point and the reason they are requiring CL80 to have CL80 pets has beenexplained to you in my previous post. You can go back and reread if you are confused.

The bit you didn't clear up, and which re-reading won't help, is your assertion that a sub-CL80 character grouped with a CL80 pet would become CL80 themselves. This is not how it is now, as I explained. You were in the beta, and perhaps your POV here is relating to that. I'd appreciate it if you could clarifiy that. What I stated - that the pet takes on the CL of the char, not the other way around - is common knowledge in the CH forums and easily verifiable as how it works now.

The only fix for a BE/CH to enjoy content paid for is the simple and eloquent fix of increasing MBEs CL to 54 as requested in item #1 of the BE top issues.

---

The ironic thing is that as I was going to bed last night it struck me that CL54 for MBE would have little use in the manner folks seem to desire in terms of granting access to "gated" content, especially for MCH/MBE. I see only the effects I spoke of in my posts to goatt_13 - less damage, better maskscent effect, more health (oh, and less aggro from humanoids sub-CL70)- from gaining this CL boost. We'll still be far-removed combat skill wise from the ability to stand up to high level content. I'll go back and read the details of the previous discussions on this, as perhaps they shed more light on the matter and what is expected aside from thebenefits listed above.

I had conjectured that this was a holdover from the CU, but that the timing WRT the CL80 CH pets seemed odd if so, and seemed to be most of the cause of the current fuss about it. To the best of my knowledge, that would be the only true "you must be CL80" content in the game (aside perhaps for FS/Jedi requirements, but I really haven't kept up with those - no interest). Anything else would simply be things where CL80 is darn handy from a defensive POV.

Thanks for the info, and I hope to get some clarification from you WRT grouping with pets in the new expansion as far as whether it does work as you stated or if it wasn't really tested (it wouldn't be testable by a CL80 MCH/Mcombat char, and I don't know what you might have played) as such but you assumed that to be the case.

Ketu, properly chagrined

+--------------------------------------->
| Ketu Sringa   //  MCH/MBE/Ranger0030      /) /)     "Fade away
|                                          ( o o )     into the
| near LOST City, Naboo                     = x =      ethereal 
| Lowca                                    m     m     grey..."
+-------------------------------->       ***(=======-

---

Ketu_Sringa wrote:

---

Meplorium wrote:

---

Ketu_Sringa wrote:

I don't recall "not CL54" in the BE top-ten issues.

Ketu

---

Bio Engineer Issues (post CU):

overall:

toon CL
master BioE, which requires an investment of 121 skill points, gains a toon a base CL of 17. similar skill point investments offer a CL of 54 (BH, commando, smuggler, and SL)

*hangs head in shame* I should've looked, obviously. I was /afk throughout the CU transition so I missed that riot.

It's the very first issue actually. The reason no CL80 pets up to this point and the reason they are requiring CL80 to have CL80 pets has beenexplained to you in my previous post. You can go back and reread if you are confused.

The bit you didn't clear up, and which re-reading won't help, is your assertion that a sub-CL80 character grouped with a CL80 pet would become CL80 themselves. This is not how it is now, as I explained. You were in the beta, and perhaps your POV here is relating to that. I'd appreciate it if you could clarifiy that. What I stated - that the pet takes on the CL of the char, not the other way around - is common knowledge in the CH forums and easily verifiable as how it works now.

The only fix for a BE/CH to enjoy content paid for is the simple and eloquent fix of increasing MBEs CL to 54 as requested in item #1 of the BE top issues.

---

The ironic thing is that as I was going to bed last night it struck me that CL54 for MBE would have little use in the manner folks seem to desire in terms of granting access to "gated" content, especially for MCH/MBE. I see only the effects I spoke of in my posts to goatt_13 - less damage, better maskscent effect, more health (oh, and less aggro from humanoids sub-CL70)- from gaining this CL boost. We'll still be far-removed combat skill wise from the ability to stand up to high level content. I'll go back and read the details of the previous discussions on this, as perhaps they shed more light on the matter and what is expected aside from thebenefits listed above.

I had conjectured that this was a holdover from the CU, but that the timing WRT the CL80 CH pets seemed odd if so, and seemed to be most of the cause of the current fuss about it. To the best of my knowledge, that would be the only true "you must be CL80" content in the game (aside perhaps for FS/Jedi requirements, but I really haven't kept up with those - no interest). Anything else would simply be things where CL80 is darn handy from a defensive POV.

Thanks for the info, and I hope to get some clarification from you WRT grouping with pets in the new expansion as far as whether it does work as you stated or if it wasn't really tested (it wouldn't be testable by a CL80 MCH/Mcombat char, and I don't know what you might have played) as such but you assumed that to be the case.

Ketu, properly chagrined

---

Message Edited by AJedimasterNow on 10-18-2005 03:52 PM

I feel that the part of our profession that require us to get up front and personal with the animals and which, by using them, cause death to the animals ... SHOULD give us combat level and that this should be recognized NOW.

In the case of BE, this is only the DNA sampling line and combat level should be granted in it, according to the rules of adding combat level from the equivalent boxes of any other elite profession that gives CL. ie. it is rather complicated how it works out but according the the profession calculator a combat medic with on line filled and nothing else is combat level 23 and a BE with one line and nothing else is combat level 7. Which means the profession calculator is wrong but you get the idea of what seems right here.

This does not mean that I support BE having only ONE line that confers combat level. I believe BE should gain other ways for us to build up combat level but if we are going to have combat level added, I believe we should be made to work for it. A creature tranquilizer gun - and line to use it perhaps, or something of that ilk. But this isn't going to happen in anyone's lifetime is it?

I cannot fill Lammie's shoes - I think his feet are too big

---

Dorelli wrote:

Which means the profession calculator is wrong but you get the idea of what seems right here.

---

I cannot fill Lammie's shoes - I think his feet are too big

OK ... let's assume they OFFER us the quick fix of level 80 for BE and tell us it is a quick fix ... I'd not say no to that !!!! I mean, I'd rather be playing a level 80 BE than a level 54 or whatever. Wouldn't you? But I don't really have the impression that it is going to happen ...

Dor

---

Dorelli wrote:

I cannot fill Lammie's shoes - I think his feet are too big

Dor

---

The CL system will not be going anywhere. Yes it cheapens game play and hurts the game over. It does do one thing, make the Devs job easier by giving them a simple dumb down system to design content in. Anyone wanting to do away with the CL system is after a pipedream that will not happen. Best to give that up now and work in the system that is given.

For BEs to get access to things such as stim Ds, no argo from CL50 NPC, no mask scent breaks from low level animals, a bit more health to take the first two hits before you can get away when argoed after sampling, paid content like CL80 pets,all that comes with the higher CL. Seeing as a higher CL for BE doesn't unbalance any part of the game and all the beneifits granted, it is a good thing. I have yet to hear any good arguement why any elite professionshould not gain levels forskills earned, be it jedi, doctor, rifleman, ranger, chef, dancer or even BE. They are all elite professions and as such should be granted levels. The difference comes in the skills granted and how one uses those skills. Levels create an artifical game play experience best nerdered.

Message edited b/c forums went mad and posted twice before I'd finished.

Message Edited by Dorelli on 10-19-2005 12:22 PM