Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: A disturbing conversation
Katharian wrote:
Cindal wrote:
We have many existing Pre-CU pets that managed to pass all the validity checks and are equipped with the old specials. Most of these specials translate into current abilities. These specials should be updated to reflect the current ability name (much like tissues were updated to reflect the name change).
Ranged is the only one I know of that works on old pre CU deeds still. Poison and disease does not (tho I wish they would!!), Knockdown and dizzy don't seem to work either, but those are the only ones I have from Pre-CU.
Now If we could add ranged, AOE, Posion and Disease back into our pets I would call it even for the lack of ability points!
The Pre-CU specials: Bleeding, Blinding, Crippling, Knockdown, Intimidation, and Stunning all have Pub 21 counterparts.
The CHs have a tread started seeking new abilities. There have been requests to have poison and disease added back in (even though they really didn't work in the old system - for the most part you would kill the critter before you could see the effects of poison/disease take effect).
I've had success getting ranged to stick on new deeds - I have a ton of pre-CU deeds to sample from though.
As we saw during the CU changes, conversions hurt. I don't expect that pre-p21 pets, wild or cloned, will see the missing ability slots they 'lost' in conversion.
The four mounts added with RotW, small veractyl, big veractyl, bolotaur and Kashyyyk bantha all suffer from the loss of one special due to being pre-21. WE cannot simply get rid of these and go find a new one. If BE pets are not intended to have one less slot, those need fixing.
Running a quick check to ensure a pet can reach it maximum abilities should be a fix they can add in with the validity check. That still runs every time we pull a pet. Of course it is horribly bugged, but if we can suffer through that for over a year of not working right, I don't think it is too much to ask they fix it so it actually makes pets be what they should be.
Katharian wrote:
Do you mean on TC we can make pets with random specails, from the new specails list? Is the level of specail random also, or all limited to level 1's? If we can add the new specails to BE deeds like before this will be a +, but as usual we will have to find out (on our own) if it's totaly random of some arcane formula they came up with.
no, I mean that any old creature (pet or wild) will spam any old special willy-nilly (from the 'new' series of available specials).
example: a completely untrained pet (or wild critter) will hamstring, imperil, bleed, and KD in combat...
we're assuming this isn't intended.
lammergeier wrote:
Dorelli wrote:
No - he wasn't bargaining. I know him and he is genuinely upset as is Rachna. The thing is - was the loss of THREE slots or ONE level 3 ability - on the BE pet. I guess we need to know if this is working as intended please Lammie. It is very very not good.
And the thing that gimpy said about the specials not showing up when they were used on the pets - trained ok but didn't 'stick' and wasted slots therefore. Is that intended too?
And finally, as to the CH who had the pet - he said if he'd known that it was gonna be a 9-slot pet and not a 12-slot then he'd totally have trained different abilities to the pet. Here he is with one of the best pets on the server and he now feels like it's ruined after all that time and effort getting it and training it up and working out it's special ability spread. He said he's got a tank that cannot hold aggro now
Dor ... (waiting for the Lammergeier reply now please)...
I still don't know if BioE pets are SUPPOSED to attack at the speedcap.
add in the fact that the specials available now, in many cases, aren't working right (much like our survey tissues).
as we saw during the CU changes, conversions hurt. I don't expect that pre-p21 pets, wild or cloned, will see the missing ability slots they 'lost' in conversion.
even worse, the only way to find out that a pet is 'ruined' is to spend 410k xp PER LEVEL of growth.
it's certainly disheartening all around. I'll add it to the list of bugs, but... we still can't make a mountable non-CH bantha, so I won't be holding my breath, either.
on a seperate, but related, front... currently, the AI changes on TC give pets the same random 'specials' that wild creatures have... specifically, all creatures can KD/hamstring/bleed/whatever. hopefully this will be fixed before p24 (or PRE-p24, since we haven't gotten the publish yet on TC) is pushed Live.
Lammie.
I just wanted to clarify that we are talking about fresh deeds made last week. NOT converted deeds or pre-publish-anything at all deeds. These were made AFTER the last publish and tamed and raised AFTER the last publish. Which means level 70 BE pets in general are being handicapped by the loss of 3 slots.
I wasn't sure aboutwhether we made that clear originally and you were agreeing and responding that you really don't know WHAT is intended b/c they aren't telling you anything?
Or if you thought they were part of the same problem as the pre-21 deeds...
Thanks and sorry,
Dor
Katharian wrote:
Anarrion wrote:
Katharian wrote:
Cindal wrote:
We have many existing Pre-CU pets that managed to pass all the validity checks and are equipped with the old specials. Most of these specials translate into current abilities. These specials should be updated to reflect the current ability name (much like tissues were updated to reflect the name change).
Ranged is the only one I know of that works on old pre CU deeds still. Poison and disease does not (tho I wish they would!!), Knockdown and dizzy don't seem to work either, but those are the only ones I have from Pre-CU.
Now If we could add ranged, AOE, Posion and Disease back into our pets I would call it even for the lack of ability points!
Last week I sampled some pre-CU deeds with Ranged Attack and created a new CL 63 Rancor with Ranged Attack. Too bad it didn't turn out to be CL 70, but I had used all of my experimentation points.
But is the new deed with ranged attack working? Only ones I can get to work are new wild tames and BE deeds I tamed Pre-CU. However you never no I could just be Bugged.
*&^$%#$%$* sony they must have bugged me, just to make me mad, I'll show them I'll just make more pets Muahahahhahahah. Sorry little bit of the mad scientist coming out.
'Use Ranged Attack' is listed as one of his commands. I 'taught' himRanged Attackusing 'Ranged' as the command. When I 'toggle' Ranged Attack using 'Ranged,' I get the message 'Pet ranged attack mode toggled ON.' But, no matter how many times I 'toggle' it, he still runs up to the target and uses kinetic damage. So, it is not working. Actually I'm seriously considering deleting him. He is CL 63, but he is far inferior to my CL 70 BE Rancor. If anyone on Wanderhome wants him, you can have him for free. Contact me soon, though, before I, um, put him to sleep.
Anarrion wrote:
'Use Ranged Attack' is listed as one of his commands. I 'taught' himRanged Attackusing 'Ranged' as the command. When I 'toggle' Ranged Attack using 'Ranged,' I get the message 'Pet ranged attack mode toggled ON.' But, no matter how many times I 'toggle' it, he still runs up to the target and uses kinetic damage. So, it is not working. Actually I'm seriously considering deleting him. He is CL 63, but he is far inferior to my CL 70 BE Rancor. If anyone on Wanderhome wants him, you can have him for free. Contact me soon, though, before I, um, put him to sleep.
Funny. The pet I was using yesterday had EXACTLY the same behaviour. Ranged Attack available as a command, toggle on and nothing ranged happens. In my case the pet was a DL30 R3 Droid tho ...
Dor
Dorelli wrote:
Anarrion wrote:
'Use Ranged Attack' is listed as one of his commands. I 'taught' himRanged Attackusing 'Ranged' as the command. When I 'toggle' Ranged Attack using 'Ranged,' I get the message 'Pet ranged attack mode toggled ON.' But, no matter how many times I 'toggle' it, he still runs up to the target and uses kinetic damage. So, it is not working. Actually I'm seriously considering deleting him. He is CL 63, but he is far inferior to my CL 70 BE Rancor. If anyone on Wanderhome wants him, you can have him for free. Contact me soon, though, before I, um, put him to sleep.
Funny. The pet I was using yesterday had EXACTLY the same behaviour. Ranged Attack available as a command, toggle on and nothing ranged happens. In my case the pet was a DL30 R3 Droid tho ...
Dor
I suspect a major source of the arguements are down to the way Wild/BE'd pet stat reporting are completely borked ATM.
Train some specials, Marring Storm for instance, and the affected stat, damage, goes up immediately. Others go up after the pet has been called a few times or aren't reflected in the stats, but are reflected in the combat reports.
There's also a slew of other subtle but unreported stats that are only noticable at really high level (Combat Level 80) and then only if you look really hard. BE'd pets at that level seem to tire more easily (loss in mental to the point of not being able to attack in a long fight) - Beastly Constitution seemed to help with this, but no stats were reported. Likewise the aggro numbers (with aggression added) although things SEEM to stick more.
Overall I suspect some of the more obvious differences are as follows:
BE'd pets compared to wild pets:
- seem to have built in increased combat speed.
- Often have built in aggression
- Can have greatly increased DAM and HP
- Have a reduced special slot capability
- Often have a reduced "constitution" (although this could be due to the increased combat speed - watch a BE pet whilst it's fighting and it's action and/or mental will decrease. Wild pets recover action/mind as fast as they lose it).
- Often have a reduced "constitution" (although this could be due to the increased combat speed - watch a BE pet whilst it's fighting and it's action and/or mental will decrease. Wild pets recover action/mind as fast as they lose it).
Since everything still has Action and Mind, I wonder if the HAM system is still in place as far as the total pool is concerned. Usually these areas are under utilized on BE pets while a wild creature will have balanced pools. If an attack takes 100 Action and Mind to use, it would be much more noticable on something with lower pools, which would fit with this observation.
Message Edited by Seiryuu on 09-15-2005 01:50 PM
Seiryuu wrote:
- Often have a reduced "constitution" (although this could be due to the increased combat speed - watch a BE pet whilst it's fighting and it's action and/or mental will decrease. Wild pets recover action/mind as fast as they lose it).
Since everything still has Action and Mind, I wonder if the HAM system is still in place as far as the total pool is concerned. Usually these areas are under utilized on BE pets while a wild creature will have balanced pools. If an attack takes 100 Action and Mind to use, it would be much more noticable on something with lower pools, which would fit what this observation.
This may very well be true as most of the pets I make for myself and others tend to have balanced stats all the way around, unless requested otherwise. This being the case I have noticed little to no difference in the use of my pets ham bar form that of my wild tames, other than my BE pets seem to be able to preform specail and a faster rate than their wild counterparts.
The system was changed, again. Health was the only working "bar" when CU hit but when the new abilities were added in it was changed back to a cost for mind for certain abilities.
I'll have to search the Patch Notes for the exact verbage but it came in either a Publish or hot fix after the abilities had been introduced.