Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: A rational point about this whole pet vs probot comparrason
Oh and whoever it doing it, you missed my post on the other page. If your going to try and be irritating try to be thorough as well lol
Last time i checked me, Sumo and Talth were ones of the only group of people who have been playing the bio-engineer profession since release (and in some cases during beta too) We enjoy the profession despite it's many flaws or we wouldn't be still here. Infact I'd say it's fair to point out that we love the profession and are genuinely wanting it to be as balanced and enjoyable as possible. Don't assume because we're asking for a change means we enjoy grinding, infact I hate grinding. I didn't master the profession for 4 months as I took the time to learn the game and enjoy it. Also most of us have maxed our skill points now so all that is left is our enjoyment of the profession.
Certianly smacks of elitism to me. Since youve been around the longest, your opinion means more then anyone else. No one else can love the profession as much as you 3. No one else knows whats better for the profession then you 3. Ive already noticed your cliquish standard in tagteaming on stars. Woohoo!
I guess I'm odd in that I don't think anything was wrong with the previous CL system or the difficulty of the game. Groups could do stuff, soloists could do stuff. I liked it.
They're pushing this to become EQ-in-space which makes me sad 
On a slightly related note, since we're talking about probots.... can you use a stimpack on a probot? I've honestly never owned one.
Actually I've never once talked about kinetics. I do personally think and know that the devs intended for all aspects for these clones and mobs to be taken into consideration, I wrote a very lengthly pre-patch essay about how the new CL ratings appear to be caluclated for wild mobs and it very clearly showed what in my opinion was a fair and balanced system... however... our clones do not follow this system. We're looking at the HAMs here mainly because its the most obvious flaw. The fact is that we're seeing CL65 mobs with light armor, 13k of HAM, 450 damage and only around 3% of resistances to damage types. That isn't overpowered.. but underpowered. That is the flaw with our cloning system it isn't taking everything into consideration resulting with flawed CL ratings.
We're seeing bad clones, thats an incredible point here that no one has cared to notice. How can someone using v high quality samples end up with a clonethat has poor stats for it's CL rating? We don't have stats for materials anymore, so any old junk will do. All we have is dna samples. That means the best samples will always give you the best possible stats for each CL rating. We're not getting that though so something is wrong here with the CL calculations. Some of it can be exploited, some of it can be avoided and other times you actually end up with poor results.
So don't accuse me of not taking everything into consideration here cause all I'm seeing at the moment is something like a CL10 critter with high resistance and HAM but also hitting just as hard as CL10 wild animals. So your not seeing a trade off of damage for anything else, that isn't balanced.. plain and simple.
Sumorex wrote:
On a slightly related note, since we're talking about probots.... can you use a stimpack on a probot? I've honestly never owned one.
Tal-N wrote:
So don't accuse me of not taking everything into consideration here cause all I'm seeing at the moment is something like a CL10 critter with high resistance and HAM but also hitting just as hard as CL10 wild animals. So your not seeing a trade off of damage for anything else, that isn't balanced.. plain and simple.
well, i stated earlier that i saw my first outta what pet. my god that definitly shouldn't exist!
Sumorex wrote:
I guess I'm odd in that I don't think anything was wrong with the previous CL system or the difficulty of the game. Groups could do stuff, soloists could do stuff. I liked it.
They're pushing this to become EQ-in-space which makes me sad
On a slightly related note, since we're talking about probots.... can you use a stimpack on a probot? I've honestly never owned one.
Well i have to disgree there with you Sumo since if you recall people were asking for more higher end content. The devs said they need to keep SW lore intact in reguards to what is considered tougher than what. Krayts would naturally be far up the scale and yet at the time you were seeing people soloing them. That's kind of incredible when you think about it when the toughest mobs in SW law are being clobbered by someone with an AT-ST or three. At the time what super high end mobs did we have? The Gorax? The Dark Jedi master? Well i haven't been in a fight with a Gorax but it used to be perfectly possible for 6 people with two stormtrooper commandos each and one Rancor to slaughter not just one Jedi master... but 4 of them with only 1 minute intervals for recovering.
The game should have super high end content, thats why the players are being toned down and the world being beef'd up. Personally I like that, but it's all a matter of personal preference so there is no right or wrong. And i will say like Sumo if Keldarin comes around and says it's working like intended then I'll admit I was wrong and enjoy my 9k HAM and 46% resistant Dewback mount with it's strong disease, strong poison and 330 damahe per hit It'd be nice to keep him, but I will understand if he's deleted or rebalanced.
Oh I know all the arguments for the changes Tal-N. just isnt' my cup of tea. I led the miserable existence of a mid-level guild officer in EQ. SWG was a fresh change where you didn't need 70 people to log on all the time to have a shot at something uber.
Just my preference
JiveTimeMofo wrote:
well, i stated earlier that i saw my first outta what pet. my god that definitly shouldn't exist!
and to a point my non-exploit pets should be toned down.
i really admire how much passion you and sumo have for the profession.
regardless of our opinions on this matter you guys are the best.
That's probably some of the nicest thing I've heard said on these boards for ages. I dunno about Sumo ( know Talthazar does though) but I honestly do this because I think it'd benefit the game and the profession. I don't hate someone who has an opposing opinion but I do dislike it when someone will refuse to see reason. People like Dius don't have to agree that this is unbalanced, they might like it that way and they're entitled to that, however the points me, Sumo and others have made are perfectly valid and yet Dius insists they are not to defend his opinion when he doesn't need to defend an opinion with false statements and flawed reasoning.
Sumorex wrote:
Oh I know all the arguments for the changes Tal-N.
Just my preference
Now see this is the kind of thing I respect. He doesn't like the changes but he doesn't say that the people who agree with them are wrong. He knows they're good changes for some people, but like he says... not his cup of tea
Tal-N wrote:
What he's saying is that some people consider that CHs should have damage dealing pets while non-chs have huge meat shields. These are the people saying that these pets are fair because they bearly hit for anything but soak up huge amounts of damage.
However they fail to realise that pets aren not generally used to deal damage, the whole point of changing to CH tree was to stop dabblers such as commando/CH who use pets as this huge target and then throw on as much damage as possible without taking any themselves. I won't lie I did the same with my shadowfire character and I was able to take a CL18 Gronda in against a Forsaken Darkside drifter and a Force crystal hunter and come back out the other side without a scratch to me but with my pet nearly dead. So there I was soloing high end contant which I shouldn't. Now they nerf that and some people think they've handed us something even MORE powerful as a meatshield.
Your not going to change the opinions of these people, all they're looking at is the fact our super clones hit for nearly nothing yet have massive HAMs and resistances. In their mind thats fair.. go figure.
Ok .... PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY because u have miscontorted every post i have made... with the new combat code.. for mobs..(mobs = any npc /creature that u would go hunt or be fighting..) these CL10 pets with uber HAM .... Are NOT good meat shields.... because as soon as player...(that would be you...) hits the mob consistantly you will pull the mob off almost every time.. A good meat shield would be able to at least hit hard/well/fast enough to keep the mob on it..
so .. one more time.. CL 8k HAM /crappy offense = crappy meatshield.. and does not = CL 50 10k HAM /LA/ 50% resists and 320-330 hit with high speed and high chance to hit.....
plain and simple..
A good meatshield for a non ch.. i am guessing would be 3-4k HAMM.. and 150-170 damage.. (and still wouldnt be near as good your master CH pet ....and id prove it if i could find a freakin BE on my server to make it other than making a these 8k kaduus..
I am not saying a non ch should have equal or better pet than a master CH.. and I am saying.. that they are still no where near gettting them now..
please read that carefull.. so u dont misquote me again ... thanks... becuz if you think about it... and honestly give yourself the chance to be wrong... my point makes sense..