Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: A rational point about this whole pet vs probot comparrason
Zaket wrote:
Dvnce wrote:
the patch notes a few weeks back said it will be harder for pets to hold agro.. meaning if they are not hitting harder then the player will be more than likely able to pull the mob off the pet.. and this is true i tested it.. So meatshield does no good if it is able to take alot of hits after your are dead...
Then your experience has been significantly different than mine. As a MCH, I run around with a gurreck (wild tamed) on guard and he has had no trouble scraping aggro and keeping it when I get aggroed while sampling.
Today was a case in point, I got aggro trying to sample a Frenzied Graul. They are light armour and 65% kinetic, but the Gurreck took aggro after the Graul got in a hit or two as I was running away. Oncethe Gurreckhad aggro I bledthe Grauland used Stopping Shot until it was dead (using a Scout Blaster, the Graul has 35% energy resist). Given the differences in resistance to types of attacks, I seriously outdamaged the Gurreck over the course of the fight - but the Graul never even looked at me once the Gurreck had aggro.
Regardless of what was in the notes, I've seen little difference between pre-patch and post-patch mob behaviour. As a ranged attacker, the trick has always been to allow the pet to build up mob hate before you start in.
that is the point.. u are master CH .. i have the ability only to use a CL 10... your High level pet has a better chance to hold aggro becuz it hits harder /faster/ more accurate... and has higher resits HAM ..... that is my point... it should do better than a cl10 pet and it is....
I run all kinds of pets depending on what i'm doing.
I'll have to throw togehter a very low damage pet to know 100%, but I overall i haven't seen much difference except against NPCs.
My Bounty Hunter with a regularnon-uber carrion spat mountnow has to shoot his LLC only once to get aggro from all sorts of creatures (thank the stars for good Ubese armor) - this is a definite change from before the patch in creature behavior. My BE's/CH's pets, on the other hand hold aggro much better, as their attacks are stronger.
Heh, with all this controversy over non-CH pets, I am scared to give my BH anything my BEmakes(and I won't give him an obvious bugged creation on principle) for fear that it will be worthless in a few weeks - that is why he is still using that old spat on occasion.Honestly, he is probably going to put the spat out to pasture. And if non-CH pets are truly going to be as you guys say (not much better than this spat), then I suspect he will likely forgo using pets altogether and wait on the droid enhancements <shrugs>. Not really worth the effort for him.
Tal-N wrote:
CL2 with 10k of HAM and around 200 damage per hit using the bugged dna. Clearly very very wrong. With generationalizing from CL55 Reapers they around 11k at CL10 and around 70-80 damage per hit. But lets just establish here what makes pets useful, they're meat sheilds. Plain and simple, they don't need to cause damage they simply need to recieve it allowing the player to pound away while the enemy eats through the pets HAM.
But again we come back to the same thing, what is fair? I say it's not, you sat it is. All i know is that the devs have weakened all mobs in the world, cut back the CL rating for the non-ch pets and then handed us all 10k tanks with 49% and higher resistances without even looking at the CH profession.
Indeed they did say that the probots are getting an upgrade, considering the damage range for them I think it's the damage that will increased while the HAM and resistances will be brought into line with what your seeing from existing mobs in the game. The fact they said it's an UPGRADE could mean a great many things. Things are far too up in the air to get any solid answers on these things using logic you can see something is wrong though.
This is what I havebeen saying for awhile. Tameable pets stats were "adjusted" for the sake of this so called balance. That's why non-ch maz pet level was rought down to 10. That's why the one skill mod was spread throughout the entire tree. To prevent dabblers from being able to use a good tank. And to prevent non-ch's from having a powerful tank as well. And to supposedly give being an MCH a meaning.
Yet I see CL0 rancors with 8kHAM light armor and 60% kinetic resist. Not to mention a whole range of other creatures CL10 or under that are better than a MCH's CL55 RARE tameable.
I know it's nice to finally have a use, but you just cannot justify this rationally. It's good to make CH's dependant on BE's, to a point. But a BE making a CL10 pet that is a equal or better tank than a CL55 rare is just not right...
Dvnce wrote:
that is the point.. u are master CH .. i have the ability only to use a CL 10... your High level pet has a better chance to hold aggro becuz it hits harder /faster/ more accurate... and has higher resits HAM ..... that is my point... it should do better than a cl10 pet and it is....
But isn't that the entire reason for this argument, in a nutshell?
If you want to use pets like mine, then become a Master Creature Handler yourself. I'm amazed that anyone can think it's reasonable and fair to use a pet that has CL 30 HAM, CL 40 specials and CL 50 damage without spending a single point in the Creature Handler tree.
Zaket wrote:
Dvnce wrote:
that is the point.. u are master CH .. i have the ability only to use a CL 10... your High level pet has a better chance to hold aggro becuz it hits harder /faster/ more accurate... and has higher resits HAM ..... that is my point... it should do better than a cl10 pet and it is....
But isn't that the entire reason for this argument, in a nutshell?
If you want to use pets like mine, then become a Master Creature Handler yourself. I'm amazed that anyone can think it's reasonable and fair to use a pet that has CL 30 HAM, CL 40 specials and CL 50 damage without spending a single point in the Creature Handler tree.
Listen i you are getting my point all wrong.. I have been trying to learn as much about BE as i can.. so far i have seen in this forum about.. bugged/exploit accusations.. and that these BE cl 8-10 pets are just wrong.. and they shouldnt be as good as cl 50 pets.. that u find in the wild.. and all i am saying.. is they are not.. just because an animal has the same HAM as a cl 50 pet it doesnt mean it is just as good.. there are other factors.. pretty much you have defense.. you have offense.. you cl 50 pet is going to have high in both.. cl 10 pet.. is going to have high in one.. low in the other.. or just average of both.. i quarantee you u put one of these cl 10 high hams up agains a wild cl 50 with similar HAM .. the wild will dominate hands down..
my other point.. is the combat code of npc and enemy creatures has been changed.. it says so in the patch notes.. look for the ones for the last major patch.. it is harder for a pet to keep agro.. so just High HAM does no good. period.. so with every one crying exploit becuz.. a cl 10 has uber HAM.. is just not valid .. becuz it really isnt that great of a pet.. it cant hit accurately .. it cant hit hard.. and it cant hit fast.. all things that helps determine who pisses off the MOB more.. pet or owner..
that is all i am saying.. i think that you are all fine with the cl 8-10 pets that u are making if it were a bug that was that unbalanced.. it would be fixed by now.. i know of two major ones Bugs that resulted from last patch that have been fixed already ...so it is not like everyone is on vacation there.. .. they are no where near as good as the pets in wild that have similar HAM..
now the incredibly uber ham and offense cl2 pets.. thats a different story..
What he's saying is that some people consider that CHs should have damage dealing pets while non-chs have huge meat shields. These are the people saying that these pets are fair because they bearly hit for anything but soak up huge amounts of damage.
However they fail to realise that pets aren not generally used to deal damage, the whole point of changing to CH tree was to stop dabblers such as commando/CH who use pets as this huge target and then throw on as much damage as possible without taking any themselves. I won't lie I did the same with my shadowfire character and I was able to take a CL18 Gronda in against a Forsaken Darkside drifter and a Force crystal hunter and come back out the other side without a scratch to me but with my pet nearly dead. So there I was soloing high end contant which I shouldn't. Now they nerf that and some people think they've handed us something even MORE powerful as a meatshield.
Your not going to change the opinions of these people, all they're looking at is the fact our super clones hit for nearly nothing yet have massive HAMs and resistances. In their mind thats fair.. go figure.
Tal-N wrote:
What he's saying is that some people consider that CHs should have damage dealing pets while non-chs have huge meat shields. These are the people saying that these pets are fair because they bearly hit for anything but soak up huge amounts of damage.
However they fail to realise that pets aren not generally used to deal damage, the whole point of changing to CH tree was to stop dabblers such as commando/CH who use pets as this huge target and then throw on as much damage as possible without taking any themselves. I won't lie I did the same with my shadowfire character and I was able to take a CL18 Gronda in against a Forsaken Darkside drifter and a Force crystal hunter and come back out the other side without a scratch to me but with my pet nearly dead. So there I was soloing high end contant which I shouldn't. Now they nerf that and some people think they've handed us something even MORE powerful as a meatshield.
Your not going to change the opinions of these people, all they're looking at is the fact our super clones hit for nearly nothing yet have massive HAMs and resistances. In their mind thats fair.. go figure.
So everything the devs do after a fresh publish is as intended then? Oh so the wraping mobs we've had tp put up with for 2 months were a game feature? The fact we were getting almost 800 points of exp for making clone 3 pets on release and for 3 months was as intended was it? The fact milk is only available from rare loot drops and those continers on Talus is part of the design is it? The time when people could couch inside baz nitch lairs and kill them all without the animals being able to hit you was an intented stratagy was it?
I could go on for pages upon pages of things which were unbalanced and then later corrected, to think that this current system is working as intended is ludicrious. Especially when we hear from our correspondant that it's being looked into and fixed. The devs has spoken to Talth, said this isn't what should be happening. And yet some people are still insisting it's as intended... get informed here folks, it's flawed and it's not going to stay this way.
Last time i checked me, Sumo and Talth were ones of the only group of people who have been playing the bio-engineer profession since release (and in some cases during beta too) We enjoy the profession despite it's many flaws or we wouldn't be still here. Infact I'd say it's fair to point out that we love the profession and are genuinely wanting it to be as balanced and enjoyable as possible. Don't assume because we're asking for a change means we enjoy grinding, infact I hate grinding. I didn't master the profession for 4 months as I took the time to learn the game and enjoy it. Also most of us have maxed our skill points now so all that is left is our enjoyment of the profession.
Please don't brand us until you know a little about us.
JiveTimeMofo wrote:
we all know this is going to turn out though.
who are the dev's gonna listen to?
the people enjoying the game?
or the ones who say there should be more grinding from a game aimed for the casual gamer?
I don't follow the logic here.
Weren't people enjoying the game with their Graul Maulers? Those were changed in a harsh way.
Weren't the rock beetles (insert other nice non-CH pet) enjoying the game? They got the serious smackdown with the revamp.
Not sure where the grinding comes from. I haven't asked for more grinding. Matter of fact I think the skill point requirement for BE is too high by 15 to 29 skill points.
Its clear to me the direction the Devs want to take this game in. They don't like us soloing high end content. CHeck out the metrics they released on player vs environment kills... the one that leaps out at me goes something like this for a title "Things players have soloed that they shouldn't be able to". I *LIKE* to solo.. these pets are great for me and my alts.... I don't want to be forced to group or raid... but I also have the ability to step away from my desires and to see the big picture they are painting and realize the pet-weirdness we're seeing doesn't fit the theme.
It's really that simple to me. There is a problem in how these pets are stacking up. I don't have to agree with what the devs are doing to the game (I disagree quite fervently and it will most likely push me out of the game if they make my solo play impossible).