Bio Engineer Archive

DNS = Domain Name System

An artisan telling me what to do? So, you arent even a BE, and you feel important enough to come here to discuss a system you've never laid eyes on? I doubt there is much calling for an artisan on the field of battle.are youone of them guys whothink all artisans should have a bonus to melee defense?

"do your frickin job"? I do do my frickin job, and I make much cash doing it too. When Im not making mad money, Im playing games, SWG included. Now if I feel like my time at my job, a donde hago dinero, is better spent posting on these boards, I'm gonna do it. God knows they might just fire me if i put SWG on my workstation.

i think your position has been sufficiently dismantled, ill let you retort now. be careful though, you dont want to make this personal.

LOL, the creature that is quite possible is CL 8-108000 HAM, 45-48% resist to all. I can make that one every time, easily. In fact I have to intentionally leave experimentation points unused it's so easy.

Problem is, that is better than the stats of a CL34 creature. Now making a better creature than a wild one of the same level is all great and all, but making something that is better than a graul mauler that weighs in at CL 8 or 10, three timesless CL,seems like something the devs will get rid of.

They just nerfed all th creatures big time, I just don't se them allowing a CL34 power creature at CL10.

If they like it how it is and leave it alone fine, I'll mke a ton of them,but I wouldlay money on the devs changing it.

Before the creature nerf a CL 10, 8k HAM, 48% resistcreature would have fit in ok, after the nerf they are a lot more powerful.

I would bet I could also end up figuring out how to get a ar1, 60% to all and 10k+ HAM pet at CL23 so I can have 3 of them out, each easily as strong as any level 50 creature.

They will change it soon enough, bet on it. It's prety obvious this is not what they intended.

I have come to mind on this. We can not say what is a bug and what is a exploit. We are not the Dev team to make that call. I have been opposed to using what we think is exploit DNA. Key here is what we think or many us think. We can send in bug reports. We can post them. But we can not call them a bug. Just we can think they are. Got reminded of this on another BETA I just got in on. Till we hear from the Dvs saying that this is a exploit I wil make critterers using any dang wild critter they got out there in any order that will give me what a coustmer wants. I won't sell them on vendor though since I will advise that they could get nerfed. After talking with a few CH last knight that have been my costumers and wish to upgarde said they are fine with it. I am writing down there names and how much they spend to give a discount if pets are nerfed. They liked that as well and said good enough and if they nerfed , they will come get critters from me again if the nerf turns them into blobs.

So in the end, we have to wait for the Dev to post a statment on this. It has been termed that a exploit is something you keep to yourself or select few. Since we all that read the boards can produce this, that term of exploit in invalad.

Grelgen, and the rest of you folks - I'm not going to sit here and flame on.

I will say that as an architect that makes a fair living, and knows the profession I chose. I haveseen, in detail, the workings of the new BE system. I'm no noob, and I put in 12 hours a day, everyday, online in SWG.

In short, making a copy of a copy should (similar to a xerox copy) degredate the final product. That seems to be working to a degree here.

As for things costing tons of money - isn't this a player driven economy? If people have the money to pay, the price will go as high as the market bares.

Isn't price fixing, and quality limitations on production levels also as unethical as over charging? In the real world people goto jail for things like that.

I'm sure you guys are ALL great at what you do. I'd really hate to jump into a thread and see that there was a conspiracy to overcharge the unknowing for inferior product, such as the "Pact" thread suggests.

I am also pretty confused why you folks, after being revived from the likes of the now more or less useless droid engineers, are begging to be nerfed.

Oh - and as these are public forums, it's likely I'm not the only non-BE who's reading these posts. I'm just the only one who's posted. Consider that once you do get your self inflicted nerf, you will once again be useless...

Bring on the combat droids!

What we have here is little more than a need to aggree to disagree, the difference is that some people are trying to force their ideals onto others telling them how wrong they are and others are trying to put the arguement across rationally. But ultimately you can either accept what the devs have been saying and realise that these pets are overpowered or you can ignore what the devs have stated thus carrying on as normal. Me personally, i have no desire to make tons of money from this cause ive been comfortably wealthy in the game for age now. So I'll try to set some kind of moral standard because i think its something that can only benefit everyone, however these pets are looking like trouble to me and I don't think any good can come from them.

We'll find out what the final verdict is when the devs come back and address this. But me personally, I'm placing my bets that they'll nerf this just like I think they should.

5 stars for dablingbling from me, he said it all.

As far as the "research done and contribution to the community", lets look at the facts.

1. New BE system patched in
2 Around 12/19 or so Tal-N (and others) start screaming on every thread they can that nocuos kamurith dna is bugged. No testing done.
3. I make things with kamurith defiler dna.
4. All kamurith dna is bugged . No testing done.
5. I make things with Mereks Death Head
6. An "unknown" list of various creatures have bugged dna. No testing done
7. I say give me a list iof what you think is bugged and Ill prove still that you can make these creatures with other dna. No one can come up with list for some reason.
8 12/25 or around that time. Tal-N says ok its not the kamurith dna, its the FACT that non Master BE's are exploiting the system with less then average quality dna. (still no testing done)
9. No, you are wrong since I am a mBE and use VHQ when I have it.
10 By now the "MYTH" of bugged dna has progressed out into swg game community online and people don't know what to think. The backpeddling now on the boards is to late to stop it.
11. Finally Tal-N decides to actually research kamurith dna and posts the entire process to duplicate what he thinks is an exploit. Backpeddling occurs and no longer is it thought that Kamurith Dna is bugged, its a bug/exploit in the crafting system and the resists not being added into the cl level (or something like that)
12. Wrong again.
13. New theory is that is a bug/exploit in the system that you have to place certain dna in certain slots.
14. Wrong again.

So as you see, there was no research done until more then a week later after the damage was done. Now the "MYTH" of bugged dna is being perpetuated in the onine game, limiting the actual research done. Instead of actually learning the system, they handicap themselves which prevents learning the system.

Bio Engineering is a skill where you actually SEEK to PLAY GOD. THat is the whole basis of the skill. ITs not an old women's knitting circle (nttiawwt) Bio Engineer you are actively trying to come up with the uberest of uber pets. If that isnt you goal then I would say you are only a dabbler in the skill. A serious Bio Engineer wants to take the highly resisant to all damage types chitinous armor of the merek and put that on some docile puppy that anyone could use. They want to take the health of a bull rancor and put in the same docile puppy. They would find it cool to make the docile puppy transform into the Hulk and do a knockdown or stunning strike.

Dius, do you remember that the people originally thought that there was just the world. The concept of anything beyond the sky didn't even enter peoples minds. Everyone claimed this was the way things were, then someone came along and said the world was flat. This was later changed and proven that the world was round. Then it was thought that the world was the centre of the universe, later on it was proven that it was not.

This is called research, it's called learning. You start with a theory and then work to find a better one, the fact I changed my mind shows that I wasn't such a stuck up aggrogant git as to think I was right the first time and that it was impossible for me to be wrong. There are however people who are ignoring the facts, that are sticking to their original opinions reguardless of new evidence. These are the truely arrogant people who are so unflexible that there's no hope for them to see reason.

We all know that only certain dna is getting such drastic results, the flaw lies both within certain bugged dna with certain stats and also within the poorly calculated CL ratings inherant in our cloning system. I mean do you genuinely feel that a CL2 pet with 10k of HAM and causing 300 points of damage is fair? Sure we have the right to play god but not at the expense of the game's balance. If we can do anything then what is the point in there being balance to the game at all. Why bother with a CL rating system at all if we can make pets that totally disreguard them?

I've been over this again and again, the only excuse people are giving is 'because we should' or 'because I like it this way' but they fail to even consider the ramifications of what these pets are doing on the larger scale of things. I really give up trying to put this across with as much evidence as possible, I'm just gonna sit here watching this until we have an official dev response. If they say it's working as intended then I'll admit I was wrong. If they nerf it however I'm going to make sure people are reminded of just how blatently stubborn and wrong they were about this.

Wrong, you formed your conclusion to begin with, before you even tested. That is not science. Science is experimenting and forming the conclusion on the evidence you factually documented. It is not forming a single conclusion to the complete exclusion of evrything else then trying to find only data that will back up your claim. If there is significant doubt or reason to believe that there are other answers then you dont go about shouting your opnion as the Gos honest truth.

"This is called research, it's called learning. You start with a theory and then work to find a better one, the fact I changed my mind shows that I wasn't such a stuck up aggrogant git as to think I was right the first time and that it was impossible for me to be wrong. There are however people who are ignoring the facts, that are sticking to their original opinions reguardless of new evidence. These are the truely arrogant people who are so unflexible that there's no hope for them to see reason."

The fact that you changed your mind shows you are only backpeddling. Changing your mind does nothing to prove whether you are or are not a stuck up arrogant git. Then you imply that people who might understand the system better then you are "truely arrogant and unflexible" Let me guess these are the same people who corrected you every step of the way? Even now you waiver and sit on the fence. Just a day or two ago you were admitting that maybe the dna isnt bugged and its the system. Now you have come full circle and its back to "some of the dna " is bugged.

"I'm just gonna sit here watching this until we have an official dev response. If they say it's working as intended then I'll admit I was wrong. If they nerf it however I'm going to make sure people are reminded of just how blatently stubborn and wrong they were about this."

LOL, so its a "I Told you so" mode. See here is again how logic fails you. You are forming your conclusion in advance and without knowledge. Just because it is nerfed doesnt mean you are right. There are tons of things that are nerfed that arent bugs. Were the people who tamed Arachne Webmasters way back when doing something bugged, or exploiting the system? No. Were Arachne Webmaster then nerfed by making the unavlable to be tamed anymore? Yes. Did they then nerf the stats on the Webmastter again and make it available? Yes. If you want to stick with the argument that the system allows you to create unbalanced pets then fine. I cant agree or disagree on that argument, as it is a subjective matter of opinion. To a teras kasi/master medic character, perhaps it is unbalancing. After all they can go and kill the toughest things already with out working up a sweat. To the commando or squad leader or whatver, perhaps they feel it is unbalancing, after all before the free holocron give away they were able to solo the high level mobs and get holos to sell for millions. To the master dancer/master crafter player with no combat skills, perhaps it is very balancing as it allows them a way to enjoy in some way other parts of the game that they were excluded from.

Arache webmasters were not made. Clones are. One is an imbalance created by the devs and taken advantage of by the players much like the Graul maulers. The clones can be made overpowered (or as someone people are saying, crafted via superior means) or they can be made fair. Again it's created by the devs and taken advantage of by the players. In the end the trade act I suggested and followed was for people who don't want to sell something to customers which we all know will be changed later on. You yourself even sound like you know they're going to be nerf'd yet you persist in making them. I'll still stand by the fact that we shouldn't be able to make these according to the following statements from Keldarin:

"The level of the crafted creature is going to be determined by the actual final stats of the creature. This level will be affected by the skill of the Bio-Engineer and the quality of the DNA used. Master Bio-Engineers will be able to make creatures of a specific level with stats equivalent to a wild creature several levels higher."

...and from Keldarin's recent response to our issues a month or two ago:

"The level of the creature will actually be determined by the stats given and all existing creatures have been rebalanced so that they are all on the same scale. Wild and cloned creatures of a similar level will have comparable stats. No longer should any specific creature have the best stats for its given level. Stat variation of course will still exist as it provides variation in the specific strengths and weaknesses of a creature but overall its power level should be about the same. No longer will there be creatures like the rock beetle which are clearly as powerful as a creature many levels higher than it in every situation it could be placed in. Bio Engineers should be able to excel in tweaking these stat variations such that they can provide the ideal creature at a specific level for a desired situation and a wild creature may not be available with that specific stat make-up. Higher level BEs will also be able to artificially reduce the level of a creature, depending on skill and quality of DNA, such that a creature’s actual level is lower than what its specific stats would define."

So i say again, stop ranting and tell me why the bio-eng and creature designer would say this and then give us something totally different. Because he changed his mind? Perhaps, however unlikely since this has been the design concept for 6 months now.

Unfortunatly Tal I kinda agree with Duis (and I'm basically on your "side"). This has escalated into a crusade that will result in, not a fix, but an "overfix", taking in a lot more than what you've been asking for and possibly resulting in a return to the "old" days of the BE profession. Anything "powerful" or "too good" in the BE line will get looked at. Remember this, be careful what you wish for...

If you have a problem with the way there system is working, bug it to the people that can change it and leave it at that.YOU are not a Dev and CAN NOT make the call on what a bug is or isn't and as this thread shows you'reactually creating hysteria even in game now. Enough is enough, report the "issue" you have to the powers that be and leave it to the people in charge.

And on a final note, 10k pets aren't "the all and end all", even if they do have 40% resists. If the pet isn't balanced (ie. it has to be able to hit hard and fast as well as take the damage with resist_and_ AR), it's not that useful on the high end planets. Have you ever actualy fought anything on Endor/Dathomir or have you only been there to collect DNA and run away if things got "hot"? If you'd actually been there to fight you'd know that a level 10Gnort with 1300HAM, even if it is effectively a level 13 one like you want, just won't cut it...

The currant system is soo out of balance it is not funny. If the you can't see that, we'll you have no clue...period. What we are capable of makeing now goes against everything the dev's did when they made the CH changes and the creature re-balance. I do agree that we should be able to make better pets than can be found in the wild but not to the degree we are seeing now. The only reason the Dev's have done nothing so far is because they have not been around to do so. I assure you it will be changed...like it or not.

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meroc wrote:

And on a final note, 10k pets aren't "the all and end all", even if they do have 40% resists. If the pet isn't balanced (ie. it has to be able to hit hard and fast as well as take the damage with resist_and_ AR), it's not that useful on the high end planets. Have you ever actualy fought anything on Endor/Dathomir or have you only been there to collect DNA and run away if things got "hot"? If you'd actually been there to fight you'd know that a level 10Gnort with 1300HAM, even if it is effectively a level 13 one like you want, just won't cut it...

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That's the idea though Meroc....pet's ar not suposed to be that important...that what the Dev's are getting at with all the changes they have made to CH and the Creature re-balance. They are trying to get away form pets (at least low level ones) being the main tank for every one to own.

Moral obligation verses the unknown... there is no right or wrong in this system period. However, with all the attention given to balance lately I can see why people are concerned about the ramifications coming from this.I tthinkthe sub-10 pets with 10k HAM and 40sh resist are "too good to be true". In response Ipersonally will not make such an abomination. That is my choice. I would not even bother to tell someone not to buy one from someone else because they may be nerfed at a later date. It will be the customers choice to buy it and use a little common sense... "Let the buyer beware". Ultimately if the Devs nerf it the players with the super powered pets will complain but eventually get over it or leave... either way I didn't make the controversy or take sides... I guess I would fall into the I just don't care group.

Lod-Reh SaJon ~ StarSider